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{ "url": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/6Z22ZYDAG2PB5VWJKUZQEIZBROS64EVE/?format=api", "mailinglist": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/?format=api", "message_id": "000301ca4473$69c868f0$6401a8c0@agentfc7100201", "message_id_hash": "6Z22ZYDAG2PB5VWJKUZQEIZBROS64EVE", "thread": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/thread/6Z22ZYDAG2PB5VWJKUZQEIZBROS64EVE/?format=api", "sender": { "address": "ki6rrq (a) cox.net", "mailman_id": "4b9ac51aaea64b76a360b7c1e7a2b143", "emails": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/sender/4b9ac51aaea64b76a360b7c1e7a2b143/emails/?format=api" }, "sender_name": "KI6RRQ", "subject": "[amsat-bb] Arrow Diplexer loss + Arrow v Elk", "date": "2009-10-03T21:49:41Z", "parent": null, "children": [ "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/FIVMY6CVZBOOQJC3FDJOOSX7XL2BV5RM/?format=api" ], "votes": { "likes": 0, "dislikes": 0, "status": "neutral" }, "content": "Jeff, you said; \"The antenna and coax remain the same, the difference, the\ndiplexer.\" \n\nMy Arrow diplexer has three factory fixed wires coming out of it, one for\nthe radio and two that go to BNC connectors on the Arrow antenna. So, you\ncannot say; the coax remains the same! The coax on your diplexer or the\nconnections to it, can be at fault as well. These coax wires and how well\nthey are connected to the Arrow diplexer, are another variable that you have\nnot considered in your statement because they are removed from the mix when\nusing the Elk, unless you are trying to use the Arrow diplexer on the Elk\nLog Periodic antenna, Which I doubt because I am assuming you used the same\none radio configuration on the Elk as you did the Arrow with your diplexer\nbut if you are that could be presenting some other variables to produce the\nresults your experiencing. You have to use different cables for your Comet\nDuplexer on the Arrow, from the Comet, to the antenna connection. \n\nAlthough, I agree that the Arrow seems to pick up the signal a little later\nthen my Elk antenna, both antennas work pretty darn good, IMO. I like them\nboth and recommend them both. I do not have a technical background so my\ncomments here, are all anecdotal in nature but the other thing I have\nnoticed between the two antennas, is that when I make terrestrial contacts\nwith them, the Elk appears to radiate almost as well toward the back, as\ntoward the front. I have been told this is called front to back ratio. If\nI point north, a guy from the south calls back and I tell him, wow I am\npointed north, let me turn and point it toward you.......any better.... And\nusually there is little if any improvement, while on the Elk and what blows\nmy mind is, there is also a fair bit of response from people even 90 degrees\nfrom the business end of the Elk. I have tried the same with the Arrow and\ngotten much different reports. This is only a general statement; I think\nthe Arrow has a better front to back ratio, more energy going out the front\nend but I know there are other variables such as; hand held or up on the\ntripod I use to hold them each up (at times) and perhaps the ground under\nme, or the moisture in the ground during the different attempts, etc. (4-5'\nabove the ground on tripod and me not always right behind it, so plenty of\nvariables but in general, that is my experience in the field) \n\nNevertheless, I have mentioned this to several on the board who have the\nElk's and no one has responded that they have tested there's in this regard,\nso take this with a grain of salt for now. To others, I would love to hear\nyour experience in this regard. I have asked a capable HAM friend to help\nme figure this out, properly, so one day I will have more then anecdotal\ninfo. \n\nI think both antennas are very well built and work well for satellite and\nemergency communications! I have often pulled one of them out, with\nsuccess, when band conditions would not allow an Omni to get the job done on\nmy VX-7R. I found the Elk a little cheaper to buy unless you do not\npurchase the Arrow diplexer. For others I will point out that, you can use\nthe Arrow with two radios without a duplexer, with same two radio\nconfiguration, you will need a duplexer for the Elk and of course the\nreverse is true if you are using one radio for dual band work, as I do, the\nArrow will require a duplexer and the Elk will not. Also as many of you\nknow the Arrow diplexer is only rated for 10 watts but without it both\nantennas will handle much more.\n\n73 de Rich\nKI6RRQ\n\n\nMessage: 15\nDate: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 23:26:38 -0700\nFrom: \"Jeff Yanko\" <[email protected]>\nSubject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE\nTo: \"Gary \\\"Joe\\\" Mayfield\" <[email protected]>,\t\"'Charles\n\tSuprin'\" <[email protected]>\n\nCould very well be.\n\n73,\n\nJeff WB3JFS\n\n\n----- Original Message ----- \nFrom: \"Gary \"Joe\" Mayfield\" <[email protected]>\nTo: \"'Jeff Yanko'\" <[email protected]>; \"'Charles Suprin'\" <[email protected]>\nSubject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE\n\n\n> We are missing the easy answer. He had diplexer that was off spec. It\n> happens.\n>\n> 73,\n> Joe kk0sd\n>\n> -----Original Message-----\n> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On\n> Behalf Of Jeff Yanko\n> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 4:28 PM\n> To: Charles Suprin\n> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE\n>\n> Hi Charles and the group,\n>\n> FB on the numbers. Interesting to say the least and thanks for taking the\n> time to look further into this topic.\n>\n> Questions? I have a few after looking at these numbers and performing \n> more\n> observations.\n>\n> First, are you testing just the diplexer and not the diplexer and the\n> antenna combined? This could result in an overall number and not just the\n> diplexer alone. How could there be a large discrepency between \n> preliminary\n> reports, 2.65dB and .5dB now. Could be equipment calibration, human \n> error,\n> etc. from previously tested, or attempted testing of the device. I don't\n> believe any improvements have been made to the Arrow diplexer, but who\n> knows?\n>\n> Second, I switched back to the Arrow diplexer and made another comparison\n> with the Comet diplexer. Again, no comparison, the Comet outperformed. \n> Why\n> would this happen if the two are pretty close to one another in numbers.\n> The Comet has .25db loss at VHF and .26 at UHF.\n>\n> Third, with the Arrow diplexer I wouldn't begin to receive the birds until\n> almost 3 minutes after AOS, with the Comet diplexer a minute to 1.5 \n> minutes\n> after AOS. Yes, watch calibrated to WWV and multiple times of acquiring \n> the\n> birds. I've tried both setups with the HT and D710 and they both show the\n> same results respectively, Arrow diplexer vs. Comet diplexer. The antenna\n> and coax remain the same, the difference, the diplexer. May not be test \n> lab\n> quality but something is proving itself. What is it?\n>\n> Finally, is it just my Arrow diplexer? Doesn't appear to be shorted or \n> any\n> defects to it. Actually looks great and assembled very well. I've\n> encountered others saying the same thing. However, a very noticable\n> difference to the overall performance.\n>\n>\n> 73,\n>\n> Jeff WB3JFS\n>\n\n", "attachments": [] }