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{ "url": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/BHGEDOCZKJP4JCSV6NKNZWLJKHJASQVN/", "mailinglist": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/", "message_id": "[email protected]", "message_id_hash": "BHGEDOCZKJP4JCSV6NKNZWLJKHJASQVN", "thread": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/thread/BHGEDOCZKJP4JCSV6NKNZWLJKHJASQVN/", "sender": { "address": "ko6th_greg (a) hotmail.com", "mailman_id": null, "emails": null }, "sender_name": "Greg D.", "subject": "[amsat-bb] Re: Programming language recommendation?", "date": "2008-10-07T05:33:39Z", "parent": null, "children": [], "votes": { "likes": 0, "dislikes": 0, "status": "neutral" }, "content": "\nHi Bruce,\n \nWow, I had no idea these existed. The price certainly makes them very attractive, and it looks like some of the larger varieties have better I/O capabilities too (SPI, I2C), though I suspect some of the newer Stamps probably do too. I haven't poked around their site in a while. \n \nMy Az/El rotor controller uses the 24-pin Basic Stamp-II, which at ~$50 (still!) was easily the most expensive component in the whole project. But, it works well, and I had a lot of fun working with it. That was my second Stamp project (the first was a simple phone patch controller). See http://home.wavecable.com/~ko6th, near the top of the page. Links to a brief description of the rotor controller design and an old copy of the source code are there in the upper left box.\n \nI'm a software engineer and project manager by profession, but it's all with embedded code - internals of operating systems, I/O drivers, protocol stacks, and stuff like that. I missed the GUI revolution (or more precisely, pre-dated it!), so my struggle right now is that I really want to write a nice mouse-driven front-end for my Yaesu 736R satellite rig to usably handle Doppler shift on the SSB/CW satellites, but I haven't figured out how to do it yet. I have the FM birds fully automated, but the CLI-based program I wrote for tracking frequency is horrible when you don't know before hand what frequency you'll be on.\n \nI have a book on \"C++ GUI programming with QT3\" for Linux, but haven't been able to make much progress yet.... Next project, after finishing my GPS module add-on for my Kenwood TH-D7...\n \nGreg KO6TH\n \n \n----------------------------------------\n> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:49:16 -0300\n> From: [email protected]\n> To: [email protected]\n> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Programming language recommendation?\n> CC: [email protected]; [email protected]\n> \n> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 11:43 PM, Greg D. wrote:\n>>\n>> Hi Bruce,\n>>\n>> How does the Picaxe compare to the BASIC Stamp line from Parallax? I've built several Stamp projects, and they were very easy to deal with.\n>>\n>> Greg KO6TH\n>>\n> \n> I believe they are quite similar in concept, but when I looked into\n> these devices, the picaxe chips were much cheaper than the basic stamp\n> ones. For instance, SparkFun has the 14-pin version for $4.\n> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?c=124\n> It could be that since then Parallax have improved their low-end offerings.\n> \n> As one path for becoming familiar with this field, these chips have\n> the advantage (over atmel and PIC) that much of the communication code\n> being supported by built-in commands. SPI, I2C, serial, etc. can be\n> explored with relative certainty that you're not going to mess things\n> up. Of course, now that I know how things ought to work, I'm more\n> confident to work with the atmel line. I suppose the disadvantage is\n> that you learn a one-off programming language.\n> \n> I have found that the picaxe line are excellent for working with\n> children, as well. They were, after all, designed for the educational\n> market in the first place.\n> \n> A full comparison of these devices should probably also include the\n> Arduino boards, which provide a standard platform, and might be best\n> for those who do not want to get into soldering and breadboarding.\n> \n> Lest anyone think this has nothing to do with satellite work, let me\n> add two points: first, I have prototyped some code for the picaxe 28X1\n> that changes the values of digital pots in response to GS232 codes, in\n> the manner of AA2TX's iRotor project.\n> \n> Second, I would love to see a really simple programmable device put\n> into orbit aboard a cubesat so that Middle School kids could write\n> programs here on earth, then submit them to the command station to be\n> uploaded to the bird. It would be a simple matter of specifying the\n> input signals for the device, say a couple of temperature sensors and\n> a light sensor, duplicating those materials in kits on earth, then\n> letting the kids write code that would produce telemetry or what have\n> you. Since the picaxe project is simply PIC code, using it would be a\n> matter of finding a space-hardened PIC of the proper kind and loading\n> it with the company's interpreter. One could dedicate one part of the\n> telemetry stream to the output of these students' programs.\n> \n> 73, Bruce\n> VE9QRP\n> \n>> ----------------------------------------\n>>> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 23:07:38 -0300\n>>> From: [email protected]\n>>> To: [email protected]\n>>> CC: [email protected]\n>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Programming language recommendation?\n>>>\n>>> I appreciate Gordon's expert opinion below. If you'd like something\n>>> that is very, very simple to work with in order to explore the world\n>>> of PIC programming, you should also consider the picaxe line of\n>>> products. These comprise PIC chips with a basic interpreter on\n>>> board. The wiring for the programmer is very simple, and the toolchain\n>>> is easy because it removes the compiling stage.\n>>>\n>>> While I'm trying to move on to the atmel line, using this inexpensive\n>>> programmer:\n>>> http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/index.html\n>>>\n>>> I still find the picaxe chips dead handy for all sorts of little\n>>> jobs because so much is built into them.\n>>>\n>>> As for computer programming, I would encourage someone returning to\n>>> this practice to consider adding one of the cross-platform scripting\n>>> languages to his or her arsenal. Ruby and Python are both good\n>>> choices.\n>>>\n>>>\n>>> 73, Bruce\n>>> VE9QRP\n>>>\n>>>\n>>>\n>>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:18 AM, Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ\n>>> wrote:\n>>>> JW wrote:\n>>>>> Along the same line: anyone on here doing PIC programming or know of a\n>>>>> list for beginners? From CW keyers to Antenna control units and\n>>>>> everything in between it looks like it would be fun to program some\n>>>>> gadgets for around the shack...\n>>>>\n>>>> Without lighting up a PIC/AVR flamewar, I've pretty much entirely moved\n>>>> from PIC to AVR. The hardware is generally two to four times faster for\n>>>> the same clock rate (gets more done per cycle) and is easier to program\n>>>> - you can make up an AVR programmer for the parallel port that's\n>>>> basically three resistors!\n>>>>\n>>>> Furthermore, the toolchain is much better for AVR - Microchip are only\n>>>> interested in pushing their frankly dreadful Windows-only MPLAB\n>>>> software, while Atmel actively contribute to avr-gcc, a cross-platform\n>>>> toolchain based on the industry standard gcc. The whole AVR community\n>>>> seems a lot better than the PIC one, and I say that as a long-standing\n>>>> user of PIC microcontrollers.\n>>>>\n>>>> In short, PIC is great, but the community isn't as strong and the tools\n>>>> are rubbish. On the other hand, Microchip are always more than happy to\n>>>> sample parts and their customer support is *excellent*.\n>>>>\n>>>> AVR is technically superior in pretty much every way, with an excellent\n>>>> community. Unfortunately Atmel's tech support are a dour bunch who are\n>>>> often hard to get good information out of, and not great at sending samples.\n>>>>\n>>>> I haven't tried the ARM-based AVRs or the MIPS-based PICs yet, though.\n>>>> Those might be something to tempt me back to Microchip, if MIPS is as\n>>>> good as I remember it ;-)\n>>>>\n>>>> Gordon\n>>>> _______________________________________________\n>>>> Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author.\n>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!\n>>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n>>>>\n>>> _______________________________________________\n>>> Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author.\n>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!\n>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n>>\n>> _________________________________________________________________\n>> See how Windows Mobile brings your life together—at home, work, or on the go.\n>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/\n \n_________________________________________________________________\nStay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.\nhttp://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/\n\n\n_________________________________________________________________\nWant to do more with Windows Live? Learn “10 hidden secrets” from Jamie.\nhttp://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008\n", "attachments": [] }