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{
    "url": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/JIJLVDVNJAG3PXYJJCMR3AM3PT6SKWPD/?format=api",
    "mailinglist": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/?format=api",
    "message_id": "[email protected]",
    "message_id_hash": "JIJLVDVNJAG3PXYJJCMR3AM3PT6SKWPD",
    "thread": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/thread/SIXPKKGCZPTSPBHHUXMF3S4L4I5LJQQH/?format=api",
    "sender": {
        "address": "samudra.haque (a) gmail.com",
        "mailman_id": null,
        "emails": null
    },
    "sender_name": "Samudra Haque",
    "subject": "[amsat-bb] Re: ITAR is interesting to me",
    "date": "2009-10-26T20:26:04Z",
    "parent": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/IVYCS23CV4NAXQNPB32OTZPBWEAMJTRP/?format=api",
    "children": [
        "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/T5E227SSCQCE74HU73IVTQAPLTO3B3GQ/?format=api"
    ],
    "votes": {
        "likes": 0,
        "dislikes": 0,
        "status": "neutral"
    },
    "content": "On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Bill Ress <[email protected]> wrote:\nThis continues to be a real sore spot with\n> University research programs on things related to satellites or any of\n> the areas subject to ITAR. It's get especially tricky when students,\n> which are foreign nationals, try to become involved.\n>\n\n> Greg D. wrote:\n>> I wonder if we could hook up with a university somewhere?  Become part\n>> of their graduate program in Astro-something, even get some graduate\n>> students to help with the design and manufacture...  What sort of\n>> restrictions do they have on the definition of a \"student\"?\n>>\n>> Just a thought,\n>>\n>> Greg  KO6TH\n\n\nHi, I fall into that category (at present) - and did not have any\nissue with my affiliation with AMU and recent contact with  JPL on\neducation matters etc. I beg to differ with the doom and gloom\neverywhere I see at AMSAT, Bill.\n\nPoint: If you are studying at  US School, you are either a resident of\nthe USA or a visitor. All F-1, J-1 Visa holders are visitors. And they\nshould not be involved in any high technology subjects that are not\nwithin the purview of a published syllabus by their academic\ninstitution. Their academic advisors would need to arrange which\ntechnologies they work with, and what restrictions they will fall\nunder.\n\n* I don't think these students would be able to find time to join an\nAMSAT hobby, but if so, why not, as long as they don't go near a\nsatellite tech project and stay limited to user mode.\n\nPoint: If you are a US Lawful Permanent Resident, ITAR applies and you are OK\nPoint: If you are a Citizen, ITAR applies and you are OK\nPoint: If you are a foreign citizen: please don't apply for any ITAR\njob, and be *very* careful about what you get your hands on while in\nthe US borders.\n\nNote: Universities may be able to obtain permission to incorporate\nstudents into ITAR research areas, but that is probably because they\nhave a good reason to do so (academic campus, partnerships and so on).\nThis should have nothing to do with AMSAT ever.\n\nWhat is left is that if we are (amsat-na) limited to sourcing talent\nfrom USA citizens and USA residents, what is the problem here?\nTo be ITAR compliant, make a self-certification and have it reviewed\nby the organisation wanting to work with you.\n\nIf it was the case that we could not find talent in the USA (hello...)\nthen I would be worried. Besides, I'm surprised that you are not\nseeming to take any account of the numerous foreign students who come\nto the US and obtain legal residency after they graduate, and then\nthey stay as an LPR for about 5 years, during which they are ITAR\ncompliant and can work with us.\n\nSo, why worry ?\nhttp://mae.pennnet.com/display_article/366112/32/ARTCL/none/EXECW/1/ITAR-violations-have-produced-high-profile-defense-export-penalties/\n\nIf any AMSAT-xx body wants to help AMSAT-NA that is of course allowed\nand welcome under ITAR, through a TAA; what is wrong with that ? They\ncan choose to divulge their technology or not, or give cash or not, as\nlong as the payload flies. For AMSAT-xx wanting help from AMSAT-NA,\nthen I don't see why they need to be given access to our tech, keeping\nin mind the current ITAR regime, unless it was a for a joint\ndevelopment where they have something, we have something. Then again\nthe big question is \"where is the integration\" taking place ? In the\nUS or abroad ?\n\n\nStill the big question (for me) is can AMSAT encourage more to join\nand volunteer/donate so that US ITAR folks (citizens and LPR) can fly\nmore missions !\n\nOr, better still, is there a job market for ITAR compliant folks who\nwant to design spacecraft ?\n",
    "attachments": []
}