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{
    "url": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/T5E227SSCQCE74HU73IVTQAPLTO3B3GQ/?format=api",
    "mailinglist": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/?format=api",
    "message_id": "[email protected]",
    "message_id_hash": "T5E227SSCQCE74HU73IVTQAPLTO3B3GQ",
    "thread": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/thread/SIXPKKGCZPTSPBHHUXMF3S4L4I5LJQQH/?format=api",
    "sender": {
        "address": "bill (a) hsmicrowave.com",
        "mailman_id": "d7ecbf0c1df148f289f27dd7a8c37974",
        "emails": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/sender/d7ecbf0c1df148f289f27dd7a8c37974/emails/?format=api"
    },
    "sender_name": "Bill Ress",
    "subject": "[amsat-bb]  Hopefully - Some ITAR Clarifications.",
    "date": "2009-10-26T21:24:29Z",
    "parent": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/JIJLVDVNJAG3PXYJJCMR3AM3PT6SKWPD/?format=api",
    "children": [
        "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/UCHXFLPMUR3SIXIGIO2YNX67RTUAY6JK/?format=api"
    ],
    "votes": {
        "likes": 0,
        "dislikes": 0,
        "status": "neutral"
    },
    "content": "Hi Samudra,\n\nNo, it's not a doom and gloom attitude anymore within AMSAT-NA. We \nunderstand more today than we did two years ago. It's just that most \nAMSAT-NA satellite builders were unaware of ITAR issues related to \nsatellites, and just what can and cannot be done to be compliant. Export \ncontrolled munitions under ITAR is not something an Amateur Radio \nsatellite builder would normally ever consider applies to them. AMSAT-NA \nis working to create a compliance training program for its satellite \nbuilders (NOT general AMSAT-NA members).\n\nSo like any law, in any country, it needs to be first understood, its \napplicability considered and if it applies, then complied with.\n\nBut you being a legal permanent resident can be involved with AMSAT-NA \nsatellite projects. Foreign nationals cannot unless permitted by a State \nDepartment approved agreement such as a TAA (Technical Assistance \nAgreement).\n\nBut ALL US citizens and foreign permanent residents must be very careful \nabout the more sinister part of ITAR called DEEMED EXPORTS. That's where \nyou discuss certain ITAR controlled satellite hardware or technology \nissues with a foreign national, with which you do not not have a State \nDepartment technical exchange agreement, whether this foreign national \nis in this country or you contact them by phone, internet or other forms \nof communication. So while you can work on an AMSAT-NA satellite project \nthat has aspects controlled by ITAR, because you are a legal permanent \nresident, you can't email your parents, if they are foreign nationals, \nto discuss those ITAR restricted subjects, whether they are in the US or \na foreign country. If you do, it is \"deemed to be exported\" without ITAR \napproval and serious penalties can result.\n\nAs stated earlier, ITAR applies equally to universities, NASA, members \nof the military except when specific State Department \nexemptions/agreements are in place.\n\nRegards...Bill - N6GHz\n\nSamudra Haque wrote:\n> On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Bill Ress <[email protected]> wrote:\n> This continues to be a real sore spot with\n>> University research programs on things related to satellites or any of\n>> the areas subject to ITAR. It's get especially tricky when students,\n>> which are foreign nationals, try to become involved.\n>>\n> \n>> Greg D. wrote:\n>>> I wonder if we could hook up with a university somewhere?  Become part\n>>> of their graduate program in Astro-something, even get some graduate\n>>> students to help with the design and manufacture...  What sort of\n>>> restrictions do they have on the definition of a \"student\"?\n>>>\n>>> Just a thought,\n>>>\n>>> Greg  KO6TH\n> \n> \n> Hi, I fall into that category (at present) - and did not have any\n> issue with my affiliation with AMU and recent contact with  JPL on\n> education matters etc. I beg to differ with the doom and gloom\n> everywhere I see at AMSAT, Bill.\n> \n> Point: If you are studying at  US School, you are either a resident of\n> the USA or a visitor. All F-1, J-1 Visa holders are visitors. And they\n> should not be involved in any high technology subjects that are not\n> within the purview of a published syllabus by their academic\n> institution. Their academic advisors would need to arrange which\n> technologies they work with, and what restrictions they will fall\n> under.\n> \n> * I don't think these students would be able to find time to join an\n> AMSAT hobby, but if so, why not, as long as they don't go near a\n> satellite tech project and stay limited to user mode.\n> \n> Point: If you are a US Lawful Permanent Resident, ITAR applies and you are OK\n> Point: If you are a Citizen, ITAR applies and you are OK\n> Point: If you are a foreign citizen: please don't apply for any ITAR\n> job, and be *very* careful about what you get your hands on while in\n> the US borders.\n> \n> Note: Universities may be able to obtain permission to incorporate\n> students into ITAR research areas, but that is probably because they\n> have a good reason to do so (academic campus, partnerships and so on).\n> This should have nothing to do with AMSAT ever.\n> \n> What is left is that if we are (amsat-na) limited to sourcing talent\n> from USA citizens and USA residents, what is the problem here?\n> To be ITAR compliant, make a self-certification and have it reviewed\n> by the organisation wanting to work with you.\n> \n> If it was the case that we could not find talent in the USA (hello...)\n> then I would be worried. Besides, I'm surprised that you are not\n> seeming to take any account of the numerous foreign students who come\n> to the US and obtain legal residency after they graduate, and then\n> they stay as an LPR for about 5 years, during which they are ITAR\n> compliant and can work with us.\n> \n> So, why worry ?\n> http://mae.pennnet.com/display_article/366112/32/ARTCL/none/EXECW/1/ITAR-violations-have-produced-high-profile-defense-export-penalties/\n> \n> If any AMSAT-xx body wants to help AMSAT-NA that is of course allowed\n> and welcome under ITAR, through a TAA; what is wrong with that ? They\n> can choose to divulge their technology or not, or give cash or not, as\n> long as the payload flies. For AMSAT-xx wanting help from AMSAT-NA,\n> then I don't see why they need to be given access to our tech, keeping\n> in mind the current ITAR regime, unless it was a for a joint\n> development where they have something, we have something. Then again\n> the big question is \"where is the integration\" taking place ? In the\n> US or abroad ?\n> \n> \n> Still the big question (for me) is can AMSAT encourage more to join\n> and volunteer/donate so that US ITAR folks (citizens and LPR) can fly\n> more missions !\n> \n> Or, better still, is there a job market for ITAR compliant folks who\n> want to design spacecraft ?\n> \n",
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