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{
    "url": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/T7LT4TIFORFC4HAO54UDLYZPBCCVZSAF/?format=api",
    "mailinglist": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/?format=api",
    "message_id": "[email protected]",
    "message_id_hash": "T7LT4TIFORFC4HAO54UDLYZPBCCVZSAF",
    "thread": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/thread/XI6AGMKKBESGUYQBR65JO5SNKA5L4JTK/?format=api",
    "sender": {
        "address": "john (a) amber.org.uk",
        "mailman_id": "df98048e9a0c4dc0947497ab8309470b",
        "emails": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/sender/df98048e9a0c4dc0947497ab8309470b/emails/?format=api"
    },
    "sender_name": "John",
    "subject": "Re: [amsat-bb] doppler shift",
    "date": "2018-01-04T19:46:20Z",
    "parent": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/VOB7CEVT5AAWMRRQ62MXPQLVTSDS2S2R/?format=api",
    "children": [
        "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/6IG4BNYBBMI7EBZN7OOWWMCOWVXGRDQ7/?format=api"
    ],
    "votes": {
        "likes": 0,
        "dislikes": 0,
        "status": "neutral"
    },
    "content": "Hi Nick,\n\nIt all depends on the knowledge and skillset of the scouts in question. My\nlast significant AMSAT demo was done during JOTA, and at that point we had\nbetween 100 and 150 young people come through the shack doors throughout the\nweekend. We didn't have a huge amount of time to explain everything or go\nreally interactive with the control or tracking, and to be honest most of\nthem were amazed enough that they could hear voices coming back from space,\nso when we listened in to one of the Italian ARISS contacts, they were even\nmore thrilled! My trusty FT-847, SatPC32, ERC-M interface and Kenpro KR5600\ndid the job nicely, we made quite a few QSOs, and we got to listen to a full\nISS pass - something the 80 odd people who poured into the shack when it\nstarted will likely not forget for a long time yet.\n\nIf your group of scouts is at a level where they've got the understanding,\naccuracy and, most importantly, the concentration to follow the full pass,\nthen there's no reason not to try it manually with them. If, however,\nthey're less experienced/interested/accurate, then you might find that it's\nhard to keep them all doing their respective jobs at once. Remember that\nthere's only one of you trying to manage four different teams at that point,\nso how far you can stretch yourself is another consideration. Especially if\nyour primary focus is on the actual operation of the QSO.\n\nIf you want to demonstrate that it can be done on a budget, get them to\nbring those tape-measure yagis they built with them. Hook up a couple of\nhandhelds or FT817s to them, and demonstrate an FM bird (AO-91, SO-50, or\nsimilar?) for the simplest approach. Then step up the game a bit, adding a\nlittle more challenge. Even if you just listen during the first pass or two,\nyou'll see the thrill they'll get from knowing it's working with the yagis\nthey built themselves at the last club meeting, and that's where you can\ngauge whether they are ready to step it up. If you want to add a bit more\n'competition' to it, then have them run the yagis and handhelds alongside a\nfull auto-tracking station and see if they can 'match' it (or even 'beat'\nit). Never underestimate the power of some healthy competition - give 4\nteams identical sets of gear, show them where to point, and you'll find that\nthey're competing to see who can hear the satellite the loudest in no time.\nIf, however, you want some successful QSOs, then it's worth having a back-up\nplan that you can roll out if you aren't getting success.\n\nOne of the biggest things I've found in the past with demonstrations is that\nwhilst the latest and greatest kit isn't necessary, having a decent setup\nthat's hassle-free and 'just works' can bail you out of a huge hole. We\nfound the same thing with HF a few years ago - whilst you can theoretically\nmake that QSO to the opposite side of the planet on 1W with a wet piece of\nstring up a tree in the right conditions, it's a lot easier to put on a\nsuccessful demonstration with an 8 element HF beam at 80 feet on a tower,\nplenty of TX power and a radio with an excellent receiver. And very often\nthe quality is what will determine whether or not you keep the interest.\nMaking them work for that contact is all well and good, but sometimes\ninstant gratification is better for the uninitiated or more casual folk.\n\nThere's no hard and fast formula for what will or won't work. You gotta read\nyour audience, respond to it, and work from there. If you can see they're\ngetting more and more into it, then teach them a bit more, and add to the\nlevel of work they have to do to make the pass happen. As a wise scouter\nonce said to me, many years ago (when talking about campfire songs, but the\nprinciple applies to this too): If you're drilling for oil, and you don't\nstrike it within the first couple of minutes... stop boring!\n\nIn short (or long, as it seems to have become)... See what works for you,\nbut plan to start simple and work upwards! You know your young people better\nthan I do, so assess their capabilities and challenge them, whilst staying\nwithin those capabilities.\n\n73, and a firm left handshake,\nJohn (XLX)\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Nick Hart [mailto:[email protected]] \nSent: 04 January 2018 19:16\nTo: John <[email protected]>\nCc: [email protected]; [email protected]\nSubject: Re: [amsat-bb] doppler shift\n\nI'm glad you mentioned scouts, John. \n\nI counsel for the radio merit badge for our local scouts, and Elmer our\nlocal middle school's radio club. In the club last month, we completed tape\nmeasure yagis. And, for this month's radio club meeting, I was planning on\nhaving the kids working a couple of birds passing during the meeting time. \n\nI figured that with 10 kids, we could have them in teams for tracking,\ntuning, recording and operating under my supervision. I thought it would be\ngood for them to try to do everything manually once for two reasons. One is\nto show that's it's doable on a minimum budget by a teenager. And, the other\nis so they'll have an appreciation of everything our more automated rig will\ndo during our ARISS QSO in March. \n\n>From your comments, I'm rethinking that strategy a bit. Do you think that's\ntoo much?\n\n73!\n\nNick\n\n> On Jan 4, 2018, at 9:57 AM, John <[email protected]> wrote:\n> \n> Hey now, don't shoot the messenger! The vast majority of my AMSAT \n> demonstrations are done with groups of scouts of various ages, and the \n> last thing they need to see is me focussing more on the radio than \n> making sure they understand what's going on!\n> \n> If I've got a piece of software that can correct for doppler shift for \n> me, and it can manage pointing my antennas in the right direction, \n> then it leaves my focus available for the actual operating, and the \n> explanations to the young people who could well be the next generation \n> of amateur radio and AMSAT enthusiasts ;) I think that's a far better \n> use of my resources than sitting there with my back to the people I'm \n> supposed to be introducing to the hobby, and focussing on turning \n> dials and pushing rotator controller buttons...\n> \n> John (XLX)\n> \n> -----Original Message-----\n> From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of \n> [email protected]\n> Sent: 04 January 2018 17:46\n> To: [email protected]\n> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] doppler shift\n> \n> \n> \n> Ya know, you could MANUALLY tune.  It does work.  In fact I strongly \n> preferred manually tuning for doppler shift vs computer corrected.\n> \n> Jim\n> K6CCC\n> \n> -----Original Message-----\n> From: \"John\" <[email protected]>\n> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 02:10\n> To: \"'Dave L'\" <[email protected]>, [email protected]\n> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] doppler shift\n> \n> \n> \n> Hi Dave,\n> \n> When you say your doppler is too far ahead or behind, do you actually \n> mean your overall frequency, or do you mean your split distance?\n> \n> If you mean your overall frequency then that's really odd, as SatPC32 \n> has always put me smack bang in the middle of the pass-band if using \n> linears (with the correct locator set on login). If this isn't the \n> case you can adjust it in the settings files, but it's generally \n> calculated based on your locator and the Keplerian data you can \n> download (and should be updating every time you open up the app). If, \n> however, you mean your offset (ie finding your own downlink) then this \n> is always a bit variable for me, but usually pretty close.\n> \n> SatPC32 does, in my experience, remember your offsets when you adjust \n> them (in my case either with the + and - buttons, or the pot at the \n> top right of the rig), so that next time you hit that satellite it \n> keeps the same offsets. You may find your offset is slightly different \n> on different passes, or you may find it's exact every time, but that's \n> part of the fun with linears - finding yourself first!\n> \n> Hope that helps.\n> \n> 73,\n> John (XLX)\n> \n> -----Original Message-----\n> From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave L\n> Sent: 03 January 2018 23:32\n> To: [email protected]\n> Subject: [amsat-bb] doppler shift\n> \n> I'm useing satpc and a Yaesu ft-847.\n> \n> Fm birds are not a problem. SSB I'm either to far ahead or behind.\n> \n> Any hints or advice would be appreciated.\n> \n> radio and ant are comp controled\n> \n> thanks\n> \n> dave\n> \n> kb0rfy\n> \n> _______________________________________________\n> Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available \n> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. \n> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect \n> the official views of AMSAT-NA.\n> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!\n> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n> \n> _______________________________________________\n> Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available \n> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. \n> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect \n> the official views of AMSAT-NA.\n> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!\n> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n> _______________________________________________\n> Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available \n> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. \n> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect \n> the official views of AMSAT-NA.\n> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!\n> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n> \n> _______________________________________________\n> Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available \n> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. \n> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the\nofficial views of AMSAT-NA.\n> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!\n> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n\n",
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