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{
    "url": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/VYR5GUI3DJNVVUYWF3C4ZNSJ7E5ASNP4/?format=api",
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    "message_id": "CA++Umb=Zw5a+Dp9kqZ-Rgzq7tdU6oj68wPTDuskhTSE=ys9X0w@mail.gmail.com",
    "message_id_hash": "VYR5GUI3DJNVVUYWF3C4ZNSJ7E5ASNP4",
    "thread": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/thread/MFDU47IRCVQNEPKKH52MXA5CD2OGPZI2/?format=api",
    "sender": {
        "address": "ve9qrp (a) gmail.com",
        "mailman_id": "4d6061838db34aba9a1c4722addebfaf",
        "emails": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/sender/4d6061838db34aba9a1c4722addebfaf/emails/?format=api"
    },
    "sender_name": "Bruce Robertson",
    "subject": "[amsat-bb] Re: 9 cubesats on board Vega",
    "date": "2011-12-08T17:51:37Z",
    "parent": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/MFDU47IRCVQNEPKKH52MXA5CD2OGPZI2/?format=api",
    "children": [],
    "votes": {
        "likes": 0,
        "dislikes": 0,
        "status": "neutral"
    },
    "content": "On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Andy Kellner <[email protected]> wrote:\n> Well my point exactly. Somebody a while back jokingly put the concept out to tape 2 woxoun ht's together, mount 2 antennas on some solar panels and throw the thing out the window ...\n>\n> I mean just think about it for a second: : take a 2 U cubesat frame, put the guts of 2 HT's in there, together with a battery and some charging electronics, mount antennas and of you go ?\n> Do we really _need_ remote command capability ? Or telemetry and all the software ? Onboard scheduling ? Or would a simple homebrew-repeater-in-space do ? I think the only intelligence you really need is\n>\n> in the battery charger. Ok, it might become unpredictable if and when the thing is switched on, based on low battery levels .. so what ? If its there I work it, otherwise I wait for the next pass. Just make sure\n> it is smart enough to bridge batteries with a short.\n>\n\nAndy --\n\nI appreciate your 'straw man' argument above. Let me respond to the\nchallenge it makes in what I hope you will take as a friendly manner.\n\nFirst, I do believe there are international obligations to make any\nsatellite respond to commands, most importantly to switch 'off'.\nSecond, since the earliest, most basic, satellites only entailed\ntelemetry (and today's most basic satellites do the same), I don't\nthink one can claim that transmitting telemetry is the burden of\ncomplexity that you suggest.\n\nThe largest part of your argument suggest that there are off-the-shelf\nopportunities that we are not exploiting. But remember that space is a\nvery different environment than that for which woxoun engineers their\nHTs. How would the final amplifier in that HT keep cool without any\nair to draw away heat? How would the entire PCB act in a vacuum? Would\nit survive the shaking that takes place during launch? Would it\nconsume power so excessively that two of them would never be sustained\nby the solar power available? And then there is all the circuitry that\nyou would have to develop to ensure that the batteries are charged in\nsuch a manner as to ensure a long life. It, too, would have to be\ntested in the manner I described above.\n\nYour argument also sneaks in a bit of a twist: perhaps because you\nknow that the HTs will be a tight fit, you stipulate a 2U cubesat\ndesign. Fox is 1U. This matters greatly due to the current economics\nof spaceflight. The bad news is, we no longer seem to get a free\nlunch. The good news is that, if we can be satisfied with a very, very\nsmall volume and weight, for the first time in history, we can buy a\nlaunch for that very small volume and weight, on the order of $100,000\nfor 10cm^3 and 1kg. But since we aren't getting anything for free, the\nnext 10cm^3, your 2U bird, has a launch cost of on the order of\n$200,000.\n\nWhat we need, then, is some sort of miracle of miniaturization,\nwhereby a transponder (perferably not just FM, but SSB/CW, too) could\nbe shrunk and made to sip power far more abstemiously than ever\nbefore. Behold: the software defined transponder. A huge step in this\nfield, and darn it all if OUR ORGANIZATION hasn't made it happen.\nListen to ARISSAT1's downlink: FM, transponded SSB/CW and telemetry\nall generated by one SDX module. If you are lucky enough to hear your\nown signal or make a short QSO, well, you've taken part in history.\n\n> I mean the concepts of Fox & friends and great. But I think we are at the 'less is more' point. I think many of us would prefer a simple-and-dirty fm repeating sat which is actually flying, rather then all the great plans and concepts\n> which take years and many many dollars to complete. ARISSAT was great, that the antenna was missing not our fault. Cant we put another ARISSAT in cubesat format together rather quickly, instead of re-inventing the wheel over and over again ? Its a bit like letting a kid starve to death because you don't have the resources to cook a gourmet meal. Guess what, a simple ham-and-cheese sandwich will do.\n\nHere's the great news, Andy. Fox1 basically *is* ARISSAT in 1U format,\nwith respect to the tricky stuff that you have concerns about. As an\namateur organization, we have cracked the SDX nut, and up there, right\nnow, is a bird with essentially the firmware necessary for Fox1 to\nwork. You advocate off-the-shelf components; in a sense, FOX1 and 2\nwill be built from them, but it will be our own shelf, with our own\ncomponents, ready to go.\n\nMoreover, with this know-how we now can partner with other cubesat\nprojects of which there are likely to be many in the future, perhaps\nproviding our know-how in exchange for a transponder function once the\nbird finishes its primary mission. (For now, due to ITAR, this would\nbe within the US, but perhaps ITAR will be made more reasonable in the\ncoming years.)\n\nTo my mind, AMSAT has a very exciting and achievable set of goals that\nwill involve launching amateur communication satellites that are\ninnovative, (relatively) inexpensive, replaceable, and potentially\nreconfigurable. The fun is just starting!\n\n73, Bruce\nVE9QRP\n\n>\n> Andreas - VK4HHH\n>\n>\n>\n> ________________________________\n>  From: Thomas Doyle <[email protected]>\n> To: Andy Kellner <[email protected]>\n> Sent: Friday, 9 December 2011 1:25 AM\n> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 9 cubesats on board Vega\n>\n>\n> How many cubesats does the Amateur Radio community have ready for launch - not talking, planning or thinking about about building but actually ready to go ?\n>\n> 73 W9KE tom ...\n>\n>\n> On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Andy Kellner <[email protected]> wrote:\n>\n> I'll be darned. 9 (nine!) cubesats on board of this launch vehicle and the whole world wide amateur radio community has major problems finding somebody to launch 1 every 5 years ?\n>>Whats wrong with this picture ? I would like to find out why ESA for example has no problems launching the cubesats by the dozend  (for free i bet you),\n>>but refuse to carry just one for us. Does somebody has ESA's email address ?  :) Is it really all about the educational aspect of things ? We can use that sales pitch, too.\n>>\n>>\n>>Andreas - VK4HHH\n>>\n>>\n>>\n>>________________________________\n>> From: Trevor . <[email protected]>\n>>To: [email protected]\n>>Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 9:56 PM\n>>Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: LARES To Test Einstein's Theory\n>>\n>>--- On Thu, 8/12/11, Bob- W7LRD <[email protected]> wrote:\n>>> can't we squeeze a little bird in there?\n>>\n>>They'll be some CubeSat's on the launch I believe going into a 1500 by 300 km orbit see\n>>\n>>http://www.esa.int/esaMI/Education/SEM3N03MDAF_0.html\n>>\n>>73 Trevor M5AKA\n>>\n>>\n>>_______________________________________________\n>>Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author.\n>>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!\n>>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n>>_______________________________________________\n>>Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author.\n>>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!\n>>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n>>\n>\n>\n> --\n>\n> Sent from my computer.\n>\n> tom ...\n> _______________________________________________\n> Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author.\n> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!\n> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n\n\n\n-- \nhttp://ve9qrp.blogspot.com\n\n",
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