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{ "url": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/X5F23UCOJ53VBDTKTC24IHOFWMBLIJDU/?format=api", "mailinglist": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/?format=api", "message_id": "2959C2E38A8C4B268F95105AEF03B38D@JamesPC", "message_id_hash": "X5F23UCOJ53VBDTKTC24IHOFWMBLIJDU", "thread": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/thread/ZYHTEA672NKT4PID6VEJLWRMVA6UINFU/?format=api", "sender": { "address": "jdanehy (a) cinci.rr.com", "mailman_id": null, "emails": null }, "sender_name": "Jim Danehy", "subject": "[amsat-bb] Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW", "date": "2008-12-28T03:05:09Z", "parent": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/TD4GEDCZX3MKMHTHSFEQYUE3LVXPLUXJ/?format=api", "children": [], "votes": { "likes": 0, "dislikes": 0, "status": "neutral" }, "content": "Art\n\nWell said . . . . I love fooling around with antennas of all sorts . . . \nhard for some to build rigs but antennas much easier projects . . . a ton \nof engineering info out there as you say . . . ARROW and ELK work but can \nwork better with some tweaking . . . have fun . . . there is DBi \n(isotropic) and DBd (dipole) but do not forget DBa (advertising) the \nlatter is more abused than the other two . .\n\nJim W9VNE\n\n----- Original Message ----- \nFrom: \"Art McBride\" <[email protected]>\nTo: \"'Jim Danehy'\" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>\nSent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:59 PM\nSubject: RE: [amsat-bb] Fw: ELK or ARROW\n\n\n> To All,\n> 1. Amateur Radio is learning by doing.\n> 2. A large amount of data on Yagi type antennas exists, easily found, and \n> is\n> well proven.\n> 3. Several design programs for antennas exist reducing construction time \n> and\n> waist of materials.\n> 4. Equipment to measure comparative antenna performance at VHF/UHF\n> frequencies is not hard to find.\n>\n> Why do we line the pockets of some poorly designed antenna manufacturing\n> companies instead of learning how and making the best performing antennas\n> for our own use? If we do not learn these skills, no one will be left to\n> teach and the skills will be lost.\n>\n> There are many older Amateurs willing to teach those that want to learn, \n> and\n> hopefully many of those wanting to learn are at least one half of the age \n> of\n> those who can teach!\n>\n> Art,\n> KC6UQH\n>\n> -----Original Message-----\n> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On\n> Behalf Of Jim Danehy\n> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:33 PM\n> To: [email protected]\n> Subject: [amsat-bb] Fw: ELK or ARROW\n>\n>\n> . there is the old adage that you get what you pay for . . . why buy a\n> poorly designed antenna that does not work very well\n>> ?\n>>\n>> If you have a 5 element yagi that only produces 4 dbi you are not \n>> getting\n>\n>> what you paid for . . . most 2 element yagis would out perform that\n>> statistic . . . a 5 element yagi should be at least 9 db + or 10 db dbd\n>> (dipole ) not isotropic . . . . there is something that is called\n>> MERCHANTABILITY . . .i.e., an IMPLIED WARRANTY that you are getting at\n>> least the minimum for your money . . .\n>> 4 dbi for an Arrow is way off base . . . so it is not just ; you can not\n>> afford a Cadillac but you are not even getting a Ford or Chevy . . \n>> i.e.,\n>\n>> the gain of a 5 element yagi on 435 mhz . . . that is the issue, not \n>> cost\n>\n>> alone . . . . . . same comments apply to the ELK but I have attempted to\n>> make the point that there is a minimum performance for a certain number \n>> of\n>\n>> elements that is pretty OBJECTIVE and when it is not met . . . . well\n>> that is my point . . . these two antennas have shown to some testers that\n>> they do not measure up to the minimum EXPECTATIONS . . .unfortunately \n>> that\n>\n>> is acceptable to some . . . . then it becomes acceptable to many . . .\n>> and objectivity is abandoned . . .\n>>\n>> Jim W9VNE\n>>\n>>\n>> ----- Original Message ----- \n>> From: \"Trey Brown\" <[email protected]>\n>> To: \"Jim Danehy\" <[email protected]>\n>> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:39 PM\n>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ELK or ARROW\n>>\n>>\n>>> Thanks for the comments. Realize, though, that not everyone wants or\n>>> can afford to have the Cadillac.\n>>>\n>>>\n>>> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Jim Danehy <[email protected]> \n>>> wrote:\n>>>> the Arrow antenna has been critiqued by Kent Britain, WA5VJB\n>>>>\n>>>> http://wa5vjb.com/references/Cheap%20Antennas-LEOs.pdf\n>>>>\n>>>> he says that some have measured the Arrow for gain on 435 mhz @ 4 dbi\n>>>> (isotropic) . . . . and that further analysis showed that for the\n>>>> element lengths used on 435 mhz that it peaks at 457 mhz and not 435 \n>>>> mhz\n>\n>>>> . . . Kent is a well respected VHF/UHF antenna person who has plenty of\n>>>> credibility . . .\n>>>>\n>>>> Kent opines that the Arrow, as built does not have its elements\n>>>> insulated from the boom. It uses dimensions for insulated elements . . \n>>>> .\n>\n>>>> so much for the Arrow . . . .\n>>>>\n>>>> Now for the ELK : a local friend of mine owns an Arrow and he uses it\n>>>> successfully. He bought an ELK and attempted to compare the Arrow and\n>>>> the ELK . . . . he could not make an across town QSO on 435 mhz from \n>>>> his\n>\n>>>> second story window with the ELK , so he sent the ELK back for a refund\n>>>> .\n>>>>\n>>>> I have worked and exchanged QSLs with several hundred satellite users .\n>>>> . .the majority of the folks that have worked and QSLed me (close to \n>>>> 250\n>\n>>>> + ) have been using either the Arrow or ELK based upon the information\n>>>> on their cards. So they are popular. Are they optimum ? A lot of\n>>>> anecdotal information would seem to say NO . . .\n>>>>\n>>>> Thirty-five years ago I worked Oscar 6 with a homebrew 2 mtr yagi that\n>>>> probably was worse than either the Arrow or Elk but I worked YV and KL7\n>>>> from Indiana on CW with about 15 watts to the 3 elements which my XYL\n>>>> waved around at my directions . . . not any more . . .what do I use\n>>>> these days : a pair of circular polarity yagis on 10 foot booms\n>>>> manufactured by M Square . . . .\n>>>>\n>>>> Folks ask what should they buy ? Maybe a Ford or maybe a Chevy . . .\n>>>> neither is a Cadillac . . . .\n>>>>\n>>>> Jim W9VNE\n>>>> _______________________________________________\n>>>> Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the \n>>>> author.\n>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite\n>>>> program!\n>>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n>>>>\n>>>\n>>>\n>>>\n>>> -- \n>>> Trey -- N5THX\n>>>\n>>> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary\n>>> safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.\n>>> - Benjamin Franklin\n>>>\n>>\n>\n> _______________________________________________\n> Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author.\n> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!\n> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n>\n> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus \n> signature\n> database 3719 (20081227) __________\n>\n> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.\n>\n> http://www.eset.com\n>\n>\n>\n>\n> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus \n> signature\n> database 3719 (20081227) __________\n>\n> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.\n>\n> http://www.eset.com\n>\n>\n> \n\n", "attachments": [] }