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{
    "url": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/XTSDGOQ3EDWKHMIBAOHHDB3BBKVWSLIX/?format=api",
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    "message_id": "[email protected]",
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    "thread": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/thread/DUEHVLBZOIHMGP45BIFPY77QSFLMN4XU/?format=api",
    "sender": {
        "address": "th.frey (a) vtxmail.ch",
        "mailman_id": "6008138868c34631bde25697fc2f5ce0",
        "emails": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/sender/6008138868c34631bde25697fc2f5ce0/emails/?format=api"
    },
    "sender_name": "Thomas Frey",
    "subject": "[amsat-bb] Re: [eu-amsat] ITAR vs cooperation? or bull..dozer;)",
    "date": "2009-09-08T11:55:08Z",
    "parent": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/DUEHVLBZOIHMGP45BIFPY77QSFLMN4XU/?format=api",
    "children": [],
    "votes": {
        "likes": 0,
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        "status": "neutral"
    },
    "content": "Hello Luc\n\nI can't answer all your questons, please read the following article\non the AMSAT-DL homepage:\nhttp://www.amsat-dl.org//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=173&Itemid=97\n\nYou can translate it with Google to your language. I hope, you can find\na few answers. For specific answers there are also any OM's around here,\nI think.\n\n\nLuc Leblanc schrieb:\n> >From AMSAT-NA web page who was updated: 23 Aug, 09\n>\n> excerpt:\n>\n> AMSAT Files CJ Requests with US State Department\n>\n> \"AMSAT's involvement with P3-E halted in 2006 due to concerns over possible ITAR violations.\"\n>\n>\n> Did anyone can explain why is it possible to say \"AMSAT's involvement with P3-E halted in 2006 due to concerns over possible ITAR \n> violations\" when i wrote about the memorandum (see below) on February 22 2007 as this paper has been signed prior to February 2007 in 2006?\n>\n> Even if  ITAR does not apply to information related to general scientific, mathematical or engineering principles that is commonly taught \n> in schools and colleges or information that is (legitimately) in the public domain. Nor does it apply to general marketing information or \n> basic system descriptions. (see below)\n>\n> How the cooperation between AMSAT-NA  and AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-UK stopped in 2006 when theses 3 gentlemens                              \n> Peter DB2OS  for AMSAT-DL, Rick W2GPS  for AMSAT-NA, Jim G3WGM for AMSAT-UK signed a memorandum of understanding and cooperation the same \n> very year??? They where surely not all out of their mind in 2006 or it is something else?\n>\n> And why asking in January 2009 3 years later for a V'oluntary Disclosure' (Not a VOLUNARY a typo on the AMSAT web page) when most of the \n> amateur ham stuff is already in the public domain area? It is the same as if you are speeding and you go back to your police station 3 \n> years later telling them you violate the law 3 years ago!!! or is it a way to justify their inaction refusing to get any blame?\n>\n> What it is the most intriguing is the time frame and the fact they relate the cooperation stopping to ITAR in 2006 when they signed a \n> memorandum of understanding and cooperation at the same time? There is something here who does not added up.\n>\n> Could be it is a way to try hiding their poor management past years record? or something we should ask to Gomez Addams or to his lovely \n> pale skin and a Gothic appearance wife Morticia Addams? \n>\n>\n> It is a lot of good questions to be ask at the next AMSAT-NA symposium Board of Directors general meeting in October?\n>\n>\n>\n>\n> Memorandum of Understanding between\n> AMSAT-DL, AMSAT-UK and AMSAT-NA\n>\n>\n> AMSAT-DL for the last five years has been building the P3-E spacecraft to be \n> launched into a HEO and intended as a replacement for previous P3 satellites. \n> It's purpose is to facilitate communication between radio-amateurs worldwide \n> and at the same time to test and verify technologies and procedures needed for \n> the P5-A mission to Mars. AMSAT-DL to this day has invested about 500,000 Euro \n> into this project.\n>\n>\n> AMSAT-NA and AMSAT-UK wish to contribute to the P3-E project, primarily with \n> the goal to have the launch of P3-E as early as possible in order to give to \n> their respective members the use of the communication services provided by P3-\n> E.\n>\n>\n> It is recognized that the capability of AMSAT-DL to raise funds limits the \n> speed of the development of P3-E. In order to make a launch possible in 2008, \n> AMSAT-DL has an immediate need of 40,000 Euro and an estimated need of ~200,000 \n>\n> Euro prior to the actual launch-date. AMSAT-NA and AMSAT-UK wish to help with \n> the raising of these requirements by providing 30,000 Euro (AMSAT-NA) and \n> 10,000 Euro (AMSAT-UK) in the near future. Furthermore, they wish to contribute \n>\n> by raising additional funding as the actual launch arrangements materialize.\n>\n>\n> In order to achieve an effective cooperation in the funding effort and the \n> construction and launching of P3-E, the following details to implement the \n> cooperation are agreed:\n>\n>\n>    1. The three AMSAT organizations will closely coordinate their activities \n> and monitor progress of the project by frequent mutual consultations on the \n> telephone. To this end the three parties will hold nominally a monthly \n> telephone conference to review the status of the project and to identify \n> problem areas. At this time the three organizations will be represented by \n> Rick, Jim and Peter at these telephone-conferences.\n>\n>    2. According to need, the three organizations agree to hold sufficiently \n> frequent meetings in person to review the project status. These meetings are \n> assumed to be desirable with a frequency of 6-12 month between them.\n>\n>    3. It is understood by all three organizations that procuring a timely \n> launch for P3-E is one of the bigger challenges of the project. AMSAT-DL is \n> concentrating major efforts of procuring a launch with Arianespace, while AMSAT-\n> NA is trying to develop a launch opportunity within the USA. All parties \n> recognize that major progress in funding is contingent on a firm launch \n> agreement. All parties further recognize that a timely construction and \n> integration of P3-E is critically dependent on all parties giving highest \n> priority to fulfilling their respective commitments.\n>\n>    4. All three organizations understand that funding progress is dependent on \n> effective information dissemination worldwide. To this end the three \n> organizations reiterate their mutual agreement that each organization can \n> publish all P3-E related publications of the other two organizations in their \n> respective public organs without special permission. Furthermore, each \n> organization is free to prepare 'official' statements about the project, but \n> these publications must be agreed with the project management of P3-E (AMSAT- \n> DL) prior to publication. Requests for agreement to publish will be sent to \n> Peter (or another person chosen by him), who will use best efforts to respond \n> within 7 days with an answer. With other publications by individual authors no \n> such agreement is necessary provided that the context makes it is clear that \n> the publication is not an official declaration by the project management or \n> AMSAT-DL.\n>\n>    5. AMSAT-DL reiterates that the operational use of P3-E will be primarily to \n> provide amateur radio communication services. But all parties also understand \n> that the spacecraft is a dual service satellite, and that AMSAT-DL retains the \n> right to occasionally reduce the provision of amateur radio services if work \n> towards P5-A requires this. A-DL will use due diligence to minimize the impact \n> of the P5-A requirements on the provision of amateur services.\n>\n>\n> For AMSAT-DL                For AMSAT-NA                For AMSAT-UK\n>\n> Peter DB2OS                 Rick W2GPS J                 Jim G3WGM\n> _________________________________________________________________________________\n>\n> Just check here for the proof\n> http://www.amsat.org/amsat/archive/amsat-bb/200702/msg00394.html\n>\n> _________________________________________________________________________________\n>\n> The ITAR public domain exclusions\n>\n> § 120.11 Public domain.\n> (a) Public domain means information\n> which is published and which is generally\n> accessible or available to the\n> public:\n> (1) Through sales at newsstands and\n> bookstores;\n> (2) Through subscriptions which are\n> available without restriction to any individual\n> who desires to obtain or purchase\n> the published information;\n> (3) Through second class mailing\n> privileges granted by the U.S. Government;\n> (4) At libraries open to the public or\n> from which the public can obtain documents;\n> (5) Through patents available at any\n> patent office;\n> (6) Through unlimited distribution at\n> a conference, meeting, seminar, trade\n> show or exhibition, generally accessible\n> to the public, in the United\n> States;\n> (7) Through public release (i.e., unlimited\n> distribution) in any form (e.g.,\n> not necessarily in published form) after\n> approval by the cognizant U.S. government\n> department or agency (see also\n> § 125.4(b)(13) of this subchapter);\n> (8) Through fundamental research in\n> science and engineering at accredited\n> institutions of higher learning in the\n> U.S. where the resulting information is\n> ordinarily published and shared broadly\n> in the scientific community. Fundamental\n> research is defined to mean\n> basic and applied research in science\n> and engineering where the resulting information\n> is ordinarily published and\n> shared broadly within the scientific\n> community, as distinguished from research\n> the results of which are restricted\n> for proprietary reasons or specific\n> U.S. Government access and dissemination\n> controls. University research\n> will not be considered fundamental\n> research if:\n> (i) The University or its researchers\n> accept other restrictions on publication\n> of scientific and technical information\n> resulting from the project or\n> activity, or\n> (ii) The research is funded by the\n> U.S. Government and specific access\n> and dissemination controls protecting\n> information resulting from the research\n> are applicable.\n> (b) [Reserved]\n>\n>\n> PS. Did any one ever heard of any report about the memorandum and the way it works since 2006?\n>\n> \"-\"\n>\n>\n> Luc Leblanc VE2DWE\n> Skype VE2DWE\n> www.qsl.net/ve2dwe\n> DSTAR urcall VE2DWE\n> WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE\n>\n>  \n>\n>\n> ------------------------------------\n>\n> Yahoo! Groups Links\n>\n> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:\n>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eu-amsat/\n>\n> <*> Your email settings:\n>     Individual Email | Traditional\n>\n> <*> To change settings online go to:\n>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eu-amsat/join\n>     (Yahoo! ID required)\n>\n> <*> To change settings via email:\n>     mailto:[email protected] \n>     mailto:[email protected]\n>\n> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:\n>     [email protected]\n>\n> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:\n>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/\n>\n>\n>   \n\n\n-- \n\nMit freundlichen Grüssen, Regards, 73\n    Thomas Frey, HB9SKA\n______________________________________________________________________\n\n  Thomas Frey, Holzgasse 2, CH-5242 Birr, Tel. + Fax: 056 444 93 41\n                   http://home.datacomm.ch/th.frey/\n\n",
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