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{ "url": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/ZAFFQUAPGVLLQX57IUMEZJTPHXBNN2WD/?format=api", "mailinglist": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/?format=api", "message_id": "[email protected]", "message_id_hash": "ZAFFQUAPGVLLQX57IUMEZJTPHXBNN2WD", "thread": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/thread/ZAFFQUAPGVLLQX57IUMEZJTPHXBNN2WD/?format=api", "sender": { "address": "morsesat (a) optonline.net", "mailman_id": "72f51eafcada419487d1a984af73dff5", "emails": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/sender/72f51eafcada419487d1a984af73dff5/emails/?format=api" }, "sender_name": "Dee", "subject": "[amsat-bb] Re: Geostationary Satellites-HEO MEO", "date": "2011-10-11T20:38:09Z", "parent": null, "children": [], "votes": { "likes": 0, "dislikes": 0, "status": "neutral" }, "content": "All,\nAs most of you know me, I am one of the voices in the crowd\nwithin satellite circles and have been accused of having my\nown agenda. I am a fixture at many hamfests here in the New\nJersey Area and wherever I can present to the Amateur\ncommunity the aspects of satellite activity and promote\nAMSAT's proliferation. I give many talks and dog and pony\nshows to various clubs. My motto is \"I work for donations!\"\nI am glad this thread was ongoing since I come across this\ntype of thinking all the time. It's a good discussion since\nAMSAT membership is declining and Satellite enthusiasm is\ndwindling, so I read.\n\nWhile this area of insuring plans for HEO and MEO birds is one\nof my pet projects, AMSAT itself has re-addressed itself to\nLEO activities because of financial reaches that present\nlaunches are out of the normal (?) abilities of AMSAT to\nobtain. My many unscientific polls as to why hams are not\nrejoining AMSAT nor assisting future funding shows that they\nthink we have to put up HEO or MEO birds to attract them back\ninto the fold. Of course this doesn't make sense and it\ndoesn't add to our present coffers to even think about these\ntype of birds. Yes, it costs money to do these things.\n\nIn the past, there were negotiations behind the scenes with a\nGEO-Sync satellite company to add our payload to one of these\nbirds. Company was sold, contacts were lost and so went that\navenue. As with an AO-40 type satellite, we had numerous\nitems made by our supporting volunteers and many, many, many\nvolunteer hours to see that satellite came to fruition.\nVolunteers even gave up precious vacation time to work on this\nproject. A minimal cost launch by Arianne certainly provided\na great opportunity. Some of our people went by the wayside\nsince then and we lost engineering staff to fall back on.\n\nAs Dan, N8FGV, points out to us all is that our dreams are\nstill there. We need to reactivate those spirits as he\nindicates. One person stated, \"I am willing to ante up\n$4000-I need to convince 4,999 of my friends to do the same.\"\nWe are all Amateurs in this satellite area and as pioneers in\nHam Radio, we must reinvent ourselves to continue to be\nprominent in building sats with real actual launches rooted\nout where we can. We have dedicated people now in active\nbuilding projects for slots available for launch. My hat is\noff to them and I will always support their efforts. Having\nfunctioning packages on the ready is a big plus- Look at\nARISsat-1 and that was a super job by \"OUR\" staff to step up\nand act before the deadline. (We don't need no stinkin' UHF\nantenna!) (OOPS?)\n\nDan provides us with answers to all these questions of why and\nwhy not. Read his input as well and I think this thread needs\nthe answer of how much is the Amateur community willing to\ncontribute to keep these higher orbiting satellite ideas\nalive. Anyone have a \"RICH\" uncle to donate something to this\nsuperfund? I think that we need a spark - incentive - or a\nbenefactor to step up to get us on the launch pad at the right\nspot. Lottery tickets seem to be the American dream (HI, HI).\nPlease feel free to \"thank\" our many sincere volunteers that\nkeep publications coming, transponders appearing, protecting\nfrequency allocations, monitoring rule proposals, Symposiums\nhappening and informational updates accurate.\n73,\nDee, NB2F\nNJ AMSAT Coordinator\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: [email protected]\n[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Daniel\nSchultz\nSent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 2:03 AM\nTo: [email protected]\nSubject: [amsat-bb] Re: Geostationary Satellites\n\nIt is true that a Geo bird would only cover 1/3 of the Earth,\nbut it would ALWAYS be there, with no need for antenna rotors\nor keps or a computer for tracking. It would be like picking\nup a telephone. It would be wonderful for emergency service in\na disaster area. It could provide high speed digital\ncommunications on the amateur microwave bands in places where\nthe internet is not available.\n\nGeosynchronous orbit slots are allocated by transponder\nfrequency. On the amateur radio bands we are free to locate a\nsatellite anywhere we can get to because we don't share our\nfrequencies with commercial transponders.\n\nThe reason we don't have any high altitude satellites is all\nabout the money.\nWe amateurs created the small satellite business. Back in the\nold days the big boys laughed at our cute little toy\nsatellites, but they did allow us to bolt them to a launch\nvehicle for free or for very low cost. The experts were\ncertain that our homebrew satellites wouldn't last a week\nwithout expensive mil-spec electronic components. We amateurs\nproved that small satellites were useful and thus created a\nmarket that we are now priced out of. The launches that used\nto be free can now be sold to paying customers for millions of\ndollars. Many of the companies in the small satellite business\nwere founded by Amsat alumni.\n\nWe amateurs are a non-commercial service, by law, with no\nproduct or service that we can sell to raise the $10 million\nthat we would need to buy the sort of launch that we once got\nfor very cheap. We cannot participate in the market economy\nbecause the law prohibits us from making money from our\nactivity, which puts us at a huge disadvantage in competing\nfor launches against those satellite owners who can make\nmoney. If future access to space is going to be limited to\nthose with a good business plan then we might as well pack it\nin as satellite builders. The educational-industrial complex\nhas no place for \"amateurs\" working alone in their basements\nand garages without any sort of formal academic plan and no\nsupervision by management.\n\nNobody in the commercial or government world cares if we can\ntalk to Japan or Europe on amateur satellites or collect rare\ngrid squares. It is all about education, which I am all in\nfavor of except that I question if there really is such a\ncrying shortage of engineers in the world. The students\nbuilding their little Cubesats are going to find out someday\nthat working for Lockheed Martin or Boeing or NASA is a far,\nfar different world than their experience in building\nCubesats.\n\nThe Cubesats are a useless diversion but are popular with the\npowers that be because they allow young college students to\nbuild a satellite and deliver it to the launch pad. They are\ntoo small to carry the type of payload that we need to do\neffective communications in a high altitude orbit. The\nstudents and their sponsors don't care if the satellite\nactually works on orbit because they will have graduated by\nthe time it is launched. They recognize that the world wide\nnetwork of hams is a valuable resource for tracking and\ntelemetry collection, but they use amateur radio frequencies\nwithout giving back anything to support the basis and purpose\nof amateur radio.\n\nIf we are ever again going to have high altitude satellites\nfor world wide DX and supporting high rate digital\ncommunications on our amateur microwave bands we will need to\nfind clever ways to get larger satellites such as Eagle into\nhigher orbits.\n\nWe also screwed up with the failure of AO-40. We could have\nhad 10,000 or more Amsat members right now if that satellite\nhad worked as designed. Even if we could raise the bucks to\nbuild another one, there is no chance of getting another\nAriane 5 launch. Amsat-DL has not been able to find any launch\nfor the smaller Phase 3E satellite for any amount of money\nthat we can think about paying.\n\nThe way we did things two decades ago is not how we are going\nto do things now. Maybe we will never again have an\nAmsat-designed and built satellite but perhaps we can place a\ntransponder on someone else's satellite in return for some\nsort of added value to them. There is money available for\neducation support, maybe we can get some of it if we appeal to\nthe right people. Maybe we can carry science experiments for\nNASA or some other agency if we provide operations support\nwith telemetry and command. Maybe we can tap the same funding\nsources that the Google lunar competitors are getting. I don't\nhave the answers, except that we will need to be just as\nclever as our predecessors were 50 years ago if we are ever\ngoing to have high altitude, high performance amateur\nsatellites in our future.\n\nDan Schultz, N8FGV\n\n\n_______________________________________________\nSent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of\nthe author.\nNot an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur\nsatellite program!\nSubscription settings:\nhttp://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb\n\n\n", "attachments": [] }