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    "url": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/YCQMAMDZ24TEDMITZB5PZ3NHWAZCWUG2/?format=api",
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    "message_id": "[email protected]",
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    "thread": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/thread/IM3IWZG6QBDZWIHFR5RDWRJCO4C72QWP/?format=api",
    "sender": {
        "address": "bill (a) hsmicrowave.com",
        "mailman_id": "d7ecbf0c1df148f289f27dd7a8c37974",
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    "sender_name": "Bill Ress",
    "subject": "[eagle] Re: Some more ITAR background",
    "date": "2008-09-10T16:36:26Z",
    "parent": "https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/api/list/[email protected]/email/GZDDUSQCBEAIX7QZ4CDQAVXA37RIK4AD/?format=api",
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    "content": "Tom,\n\nThanks for the references. Very interesting material indeed.\n\nRegards...Bill - N6GHz\n\nTom Clark, K3IO wrote:\n> I retitled the thread because this topic is NOT BS! It is real.\n> Bill -- you asked for more documentation:\n>> You mentioned SpaceQuest exporting AO-51 as a commercial satellite. \n>> Now that confuses me since an Amateur satellite by FCC rules cannot \n>> be \"commercial\". So somewhere there's a definition disconnect. I'd be \n>> happy to define our satellites as \"commercial\" and then follow \n>> whatever Space Quest did. But can we do that? I have a copy of the \n>> paper they wrote here somewhere describing all they went through as a \n>> sorta guideline.\n> The fact that we \"bought\" AO-51 (from AMSAT members @ SpaceQuest) \n> impacted the ITAR situation. The Amateur Satellite Service status is \n> defined by ITU & FCC and has nothing to do with the manner of \n> acquisition/fabrication. If I follow your logic, then all the \n> YaeComWood radios are not amateur. We might want to talk with Dino \n> (KC4YMG) about how SpaceQuest (BTW, they has been involved in a LOT of \n> amateur satellites, see \n> http://spacequest.com/success_stories.php?PHPSESSID=e57bf8985c5689d7e2340f450c7b19fa).\n>> Educational organizations - I'd have to go back through ITAR again \n>> but I didn't recall seeing a ITAR exemption for \"educational\" \n>> entities. IF there is, I would think, like you, that AMSAT should be \n>> considered a bona fide educational institution. If degrees can be \n>> obtained on the internet, surely we can offer courses in satellite \n>> design, building and operation. I bet you could whip up a curriculum.\n> The Federal Register describing the March, 2002 \"ITAR Exemptions for \n> US Institutions of Higher Learning\" can be found at \n> http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/03/fr032902.html. See also \n> http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL31695.pdf & \n> http://fas.org/sgp/crs/RL31845.pdf\n> The problem is, as I understand it, the 2002 rule got universities out \n> of their black hole. Commercial entities has well defines procedures. \n> But /ad hoc/ volunteers working on activities for a non-profit \n> organization seem to fall thru the cracks. This idea has been \n> discussed with some high ups (lawyers, DoS retirees, etc) but so far,. \n> /when all is said and done, much more has been said than done! /\n>\n> For some other info on ITAR, I recommend everyone look at: \n> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations \n> where you will see a lot of references and the words that IMHO \n> summarize our problem: /*\"Currently, officials at the Department of \n> State dismiss the burden on industry and educational institutions as \n> minor compared to the contributions to national security provided by \n> ITAR. They also view the announcements of \"ITAR-free\" items as \n> anecdotal and not systemic\"\n>\n> */ For more info on the Loral/LongMarch story, this makes interesting \n> reading: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/528/1\n>\n> For an interesting mp3 interview about the ITAR mess, where David \n> Livingstone first said /*\"ITAR is Three Types of Stupid\"*/: \n> http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/457-BWB-2006-02-12.mp3\n>\n> Are the commercial visitors to the ISS exports? \n> http://rescommunis.wordpress.com/2007/11/01/deemed-exports-and-space-tourists/\n>\n> Its 3AM & Bed time -- 73, Tom\n>\n>\n>\n> ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n>\n> _______________________________________________\n> Via the Eagle mailing list courtesy of AMSAT-NA\n> [email protected]\n> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/eagle\n>   \n> ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n>\n> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.\n> Checked by AVG. \n> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1595 - Release Date: 8/6/2008 8:23 AM\n>   \n",
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