Paul hits on a real issue-making sure that folks have a chance to vote, regardless of media type.
As mentioned already in this thread, and from my perspective as a Board member now up for election renewal--rest assured that a well researched written proposal for something like moving to electronic voting would be given a good fair and full review by the Board and Officers. There are many points being brought up in this thread right now--but suggesting a change that requires a change to the by-laws of an organization should obviously be well researched and reviewed. It'll take a good amount of time and thought, certainly worth doing for something so important to an organization.
73,
Mark N8MH
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
Remember that we have life members dating to the early 1970s. We don't have email addresses for all of our members in order to do something like that.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org wrote:
Perhaps there is a happy medium here. How about emailing the ballot as a
pdf to each member. If necessary each pdf could be encoded slightly different (possibly serialized) for each member. It is then up to the member to print and mail the return ballot. If one wanted to squabble over postage that can be printed as well. The key to this is that the info that identifies the unique ballot is not linked in any way to the member it was sent to but the member can verify from the serial number that is known only to them that the ballot was received and counted.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 18, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com
wrote:
Does AMSAT maintain a printing press and envelope factory to produce
the current mailings? I think the solution is called "contracting" and I am aware that there are companies that offer such services at a reasonable cost.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 4:53 AM E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com
wrote:
What would the upfront cost of setting up electronic voting? It seems
to me that it would be analogous to Solar electricity. Higher end, up front cost verses “free” power down the road.
If you are advocating the change are you willing to invest your own
time energy and perhaps $$$ to reduce the cost to AMSAT? After all can a cash strapped organization afford $10k or higher solution right now, even for lower cost in the future?
Regardless this will not be an overnight solution. Like building a
satellite it will require planning and deadlines and engineering, both software and social.
I personally like the idea on online voting. I also like the idea of
electronic delivery of the Journal, but we have found even that is a bit more complicated and costly than one might think.
73 EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Devin L. Ganger devin@thecabal.org
wrote:
Concur with AF6EP. Doing electronic ballots is inexpensive. Doing
them *correctly* is not.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Eric Fort Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:55 PM To: Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com Cc: Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us; AMSAT Mailing List amsat-bb@amsat.org; Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors
Ballots
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind
the
keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter
only casts
one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is
the paper ballot
is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature
and
registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that
one and
only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then
separated
from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the
voter. In the
digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and
verifiablity
simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire
papers
and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact
thing. Do
the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
> On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com
wrote:
> > Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more,
secure as
your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to
with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some
options to a
voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more
convenient, you can
pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW
for
QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post. > > Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people
“hacking” the
elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism. > > 73, > Mike Diehl > W8LID > >> On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <eric.fort.listmail@
fortconsulting.org>
wrote: >> >> Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to
“hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught
prior to
printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer. >> >> Eric >> Af6ep >> >> Sent using SMTP. >> >>> On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented >>> organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail
two
>>> sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that >>> electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting >>> more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and
prevent
>>> some members from not receiving ballots like last year. >>> >>> 73, >>> Gabe >>> AL6D/VE6NJH >>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote: >>>> >>>> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to >>>> AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on
July
>>>> 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots >>>> received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted. >>>> >>>> New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on >>>> yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. >>>> >>>> Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: >>>> Tom Clark, K3IO >>>> Mark Hammond, N8MH >>>> Scott Harvey, KA7FVV >>>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO >>>> Peter Portanova, W2JV >>>> >>>> The Directors positions will go to the three candidates
receiving
>>>> the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two >>>> alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received. >>>> >>>> 73, >>>> Clayton >>>> W5PFG >>>> AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >>>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >>>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author,
and
>>>> do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
program! >>>> Subscription settings: >>>> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author,
and do
not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>> Subscription settings: >>> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. >> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not
reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/
listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
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to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
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are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb