FYI... FLEX RADIO's OFFICIAL RESPONSE... the 6000 series radio's..
https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/is-full-duplex-possible-on- the-6000-series
I can also confirm, on my 6500 running SmartSDR 1.5.1 bottom of screen, 3 selections (TNF CWX and FDX) FDX toggles full duplex on and off..
" We will be introducing Full Duplex operation in v1.5 which is due out in September. I'd like to spend a few minutes talking about the specifics. Full Duplex will allow you to transmit and receive at the same time, but there are limitations. The FLEX-6700 has the most capability in this area and you will be able to transmit on one antenna and receive on up to two different antennas at the same time. When you receive while you are transmitting, there are a number of important considerations to ensure good operation. Here are the considerations:
Isolation and overload: If your transmit energy enters the receiver at sufficient levels with the preamp off (greater than about 5mW in the FLEX-6300 and greater than about 10mW in the 6500 and 6700) or with the preamp on (generally subtract the gain of the preamp from the provided overload point), the radio receiver will overload. The FLEX-6000 Signature Series radios have a "soft overload" where they will show signs of an overload before going into a complete overload some 5-10dB later. The key sign of a soft overload are numerous spurs in the panadapter. There is 40-100dB of isolation inherent in the radio itself. This will be added to the isolation between your antennas and the total must be below the radio overload point. More details will be provided, but here's a math example:
Transmitter: 100W = +50dBm Overload on FLEX-6700 = +9dBm Isolation from ANT1 to RXA: 90dB Antenna isolation (at your shack): 40dB
+50 - 90 - 40 = -80dBm ... well below the +9dBm limit (89dB margin)
Transmitter: 100W = +50dBm Overload on FLEX-6300 with 20dB preamp on: +7dBm - 20 = -13dBm Isolation from ANT1 to ANT2: 40dB Antenna isolation (at your shack): 30dB
+50 - 30 - 30 = -10dBm ... we are 3dB above the overload with the preamp on
We'll show you how to run these calculations, but you can see there is a wide range of possibilities so you will need to do a little math to determine if everything will work for you. Bandpass filters may also add another 30dB or so of isolation of you are transmitting on one band and receiving on another if your antenna selections are correct.
The radio will also protect itself if you put too much energy in the receiver port and the radio will disconnect the antenna and alert you.
Receiver must be on different frequency from transmitter: The delay that occurs during filtering is guaranteed to drive someone mad if the transmitter and receiver are on the same frequency. For this reason, we mute the slice that you are transmitting on so you will not hear your own signal. This may seem counter intuitive at first, but it should fit most use cases. For example, if you are chasing DX, you can create two slices, a RX slice on the DX and a TX slice where you will TX up (generally) and when you transmit, you can still hear the DX frequency. You will not hear under your current transmit signal, unless you are in QSK in which case you will hear in-between your transmissions.
Antennas: In all cases, you will need two antennas for full duplex. We will not be transmitting and receiving on the same antenna.
This is an exciting and new capability for all FLEX-6000 radios, but it will require a little planning and thought to be sure it will work at your location. We hope this will bring hours of new operating fun!
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EDIT: 9/17/15 There are a few errors in the calculations above and rather than just change the text, I'll explain the issue and provide the correct information. There are really two paths from the transmitter to the receiver. The first path goes from the transmitter to the transmit antenna, to the receive antenna and into the receiver. The second path goes from the transmitter directly to the receiver inside the radio. It is the latter path that prevents most manufacturers from offering full duplex.
For the scenarios above, you should always look at the isolation in the radio AND the isolation outside and take the lower of the two.
SCENARIO #1 Antenna Path: Transmitter: 100W = +50dBm Overload on FLEX-6700 = +9dBm Antenna isolation (at your shack): 40dB Receiver Preselector Filters: 20dB (assuming different bands)
+50 - 40 - 20 = -10dBm ... this is acceptable
Internal path: Transmitter: 100W = +50dBm Overload on FLEX-6700 = +9dBm Isolation from ANT1 to RXA: 90dB
+50 - 90 = -40dBm ... this is also acceptable
So in scenario #1, the configuration will work with full-duplex
SCENARIO #2 Antenna Path: Transmitter: 100W = +50dBm Overload on FLEX-6300 with 20dB preamp on: +7dBm - 20 = -13dBm Antenna isolation (at your shack): 30dB Receiver Preselector Filters: 0dB (not available in FLEX-6300)
+50 - 30 - 0 = +20dBm ... we are 33dB above the overload with the preamp on. More antenna isolation is needed
Internal path: Transmitter: 100W = +50dBm Overload on FLEX-6300 with 20dB preamp on: +7dBm - 20 = -13dBm Isolation from ANT1 to ANT2: 40dB
+50 - 40 = +10dBm ... we are 23dB above the overload with the preamp on
In this case, full duplex may not be run.
More details will be made available in a white paper on Full Duplex and SO2R. Hopefully I haven't made too many mistakes in the corrected text!
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Richard Lawn Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 8:51 AM To: Amsat BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Flex radio for satellites
In answer to your questions, yes the Flex 5000A could be fully equipped with 2 rcvrs and the V/U module, however they discontinued it with the release of their 6000 series radio. For satellites I've used the FT736f, Ts2000 and ft847 and none compare to the ease of operation and rx quality of the Flex5000A, which is why I'm holding on to mine.
But you could do what I'm now doing which is to use another radio capable of V/U transmission on all modes as your uplink radio and use a 6000 series radio with inexpensive down converters for rx. I then built a USB relay controlled box that drives antenna switching relays. I found this to be much cheaper than the other alternative which is to buy DEMI transverters or possibly Elecraft. And you also end up with another really useful radio as a backup for HF and other purposes at less cost than the 2 DEMI transverters. I've used this arrangement before (minus the automated relay switching ) I got my tricked out Flex5000. At that time I used the TS2000 as uplink with a Flex 5000A for downlink wth converters and it worked great! Stay tuned for exciting articles by Ron Parsons, W5RKN, and Dave W0DHB in the AMSAT Journal about all this. What I'm doing is a spin off of their ideas and working with them.
73 Rick, W2JAZ
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