[amsat-bb] Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW

28 Dec 2008

      Is it really worth it for .3 DB gain? Seems you would be better served by
not using the diplexer.
Reference http://www.csvhfs.org/ant/CSANT06.HTML
I continue to be amazed how people can judge by just looking at imagined 
numbers. Seems that practical hands on experience has no bearing on how good 
or bad the Arrow or the Elk antenna is, but just conjecture over assumed 
specifications makes them less than a 'Ford or Chevy'?
If you need a handheld satellite antenna, you have pretty much 3 choices:
-The 'bad' Arrow
-The equally 'bad' Elk
-make your own Arrow clone, which according to the numbers is far superior 
(what's that they say about imitation?)
I have an Arrow and have 'field tested' the Elk. I stuck with the Arrow. My 
OPINION, it's better. Others disagree. I contemplated building an Arrow 
clone, as there are several websites that tell you how. Are they better? 
Perhaps, but I got to think that a DB or 2 won't make that much difference.
Believe what you want, but I believe the Arrow works just fine the way it 
it is.
Jim Bob Buckeye
            AKA
  **** Jim Leder****
    K8CXM since 1961
 IBM retiree since 1999
There are 10 types of people in this world -- those who understand binary
and those who don't.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Jerzycke" kq6ea@pacbell.net
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org; "Gary Joe Mayfield" gary_mayfield@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW
...
Or you can just lengthen them 1/4" on a side with a threaded spacer....
Jim  KQ6EA
--- On Sat, 12/27/08, Gary "Joe" Mayfield gary_mayfield@hotmail.com 
wrote:
...
From: Gary "Joe" Mayfield gary_mayfield@hotmail.com
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Fw:  ELK or ARROW
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Date: Saturday, December 27, 2008, 8:17 PM
Has anyone played with insulating the Arrow elements from
the boom?  It
shouldn't be too hard to do.
73,
Joe kk0sd
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org
[mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Jim Danehy
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:33 PM
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fw: ELK or ARROW
there is the old adage that you get what you pay for . .
. why buy a
poorly designed antenna that does not work very well
...
?
If you have a 5 element  yagi that only produces 4 dbi
you are not getting
...
what you paid for . . . most 2 element yagis would out
perform that
...
statistic . . . a 5 element yagi should be at least 9
db + or 10 db dbd
...
(dipole ) not isotropic  . . . . there is something
that is called
...
MERCHANTABILITY . . .i.e., an IMPLIED WARRANTY  that
you are getting at
...
least the minimum for your money . . .
4 dbi for an Arrow is way off base . . .  so it is not
just ; you can not
...
afford a Cadillac but you are not even getting a Ford
or Chevy  . .  i.e.,
...
the gain of a 5 element yagi on 435 mhz . . .  that is
the issue, not cost
...
alone . . . . . . same comments apply to the ELK but I
have attempted to
...
make the point that there is a minimum performance for
a certain number of
...
elements that is pretty OBJECTIVE and when it is not
met  . . . . well
...
that is my point . . . these two antennas have shown
to some testers that
...
they do not measure up to the minimum EXPECTATIONS . .
.unfortunately that
...
is acceptable to some  . . . . then it becomes
acceptable to many . . .
...
and objectivity is abandoned . . .
Jim W9VNE
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Trey Brown"
palintheus@gmail.com
...
To: "Jim Danehy"
jdanehy@cinci.rr.com
...
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ELK or ARROW
...
Thanks for the comments. Realize, though, that not
everyone wants or
...
...
can afford to have the Cadillac.
On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Jim Danehy
jdanehy@cinci.rr.com wrote:
...
...
...
the Arrow antenna has been critiqued by Kent
Britain, WA5VJB
...
...
...
http://wa5vjb.com/references/Cheap%20Antennas-LEOs.pdf
...
...
...
he says that some have measured the Arrow for
gain on 435 mhz @ 4 dbi
...
...
...
(isotropic) . . . . and that further analysis
showed that for the
...
...
...
element lengths used on 435 mhz that it peaks
at 457 mhz and not 435 mhz
...
...
...
. . . Kent is a well respected VHF/UHF antenna
person who has plenty of
...
...
...
credibility . . .
Kent opines that the Arrow, as built does not
have its elements
...
...
...
insulated from the boom. It uses dimensions
for insulated elements . . .
...
...
...
so much for the Arrow . . . .
Now for the ELK  : a local friend of mine owns
an Arrow and he uses it
...
...
...
successfully. He bought an ELK and attempted
to compare the Arrow and
...
...
...
the ELK . . . . he could not make an across
town QSO on 435 mhz from his
...
...
...
second story window with the ELK , so he sent
the ELK back for a refund
...
...
...
.
I have worked and exchanged QSLs with several
hundred satellite users .
...
...
...
. .the majority of the folks that have worked
and QSLed me (close to 250
...
...
...

) have been using either the Arrow or ELK

based upon the information
...
...
...
on their cards. So they are popular. Are they
optimum ? A lot of
...
...
...
anecdotal information would seem to say NO . .
.
...
...
...
Thirty-five years ago I worked Oscar 6 with a
homebrew 2 mtr yagi that
...
...
...
probably was worse than either the Arrow or
Elk but I worked YV and KL7
...
...
...
from Indiana on CW with about 15 watts to the
3 elements which my XYL
...
...
...
waved around at my directions . . . not any
more . . .what do I use
...
...
...
these days : a pair of circular polarity yagis
on 10 foot booms
...
...
...
manufactured by M Square . . . .
Folks ask what should they buy ? Maybe a Ford
or maybe a Chevy . . .
...
...
...
neither is a Cadillac . . . .
Jim W9VNE

...
...
...
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-- 
Trey -- N5THX
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary
...
...
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin

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