Yes, thank you for that detailed explanation and analysis.
Best 73, Elan
--- On Sun, 12/20/09, i8cvs domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:
From: i8cvs domenico.i8cvs@tin.it Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Preamp location tech question To: "Elan Portnoy" elanportnoy@yahoo.com, "amsat bb" amsat-bb@amsat.org Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:23 PM Hi Elan,
You don't mention the model of preamplifiers from ARR that you are using but I suppose that you got the better between the tree models available i.e. the SP144VDG 144-148 MHz with NF = 0.55 dB and the SP432VDG 420-450 MHz with NF= 0.55 dB
Now if you add between the antenna and preamplifiers 50 feet of coax cable LMR400 then the loss of 0.75 dB at 144 MHz and the loss of 1.35 dB at 435 MHz adds to the Noise Figure of your preamplifiers so that it is like to have:
a 144 MHz preamplifier with an overall NF = 0.55 + 0.75 = 1.3 dB a 435 MHz preamplifier with an overall NF = 0.55 + 1.35 = 1.9 dB
Supposing that you have the preamplifier antenna mounted working out the numbars for 144 MHz we get:
Noise Figure NF = 0.55 dB Noise Factor F = 10^(NF/10) = 10^0.055 = 1.13 The equivalent Noise Temperature T = (1.13 -1 ) x 290 = 39 kelvin If you live in a rural area at 144 MHz the equivalent Noise Antenna Temperature T1=200 kelvin so that your Tsys1=39+200= 239 kelvin
Let see what happens if you mount the preamplifier in the shack:
Overall Noise Figure = 0.55 + 0.75 = 1.3 dB Overall Noise Factor F = 10^(10/1.3) = 10^0.13 = 1.35 The equivalent Noise Temperature T = (1.35-1) x 290 = 101 kelvin Since the antenna is the same Tsys2 = 101+200 = 301 kelvin
The improvement putting the preamplifier antenna mounted against shack mounted is
10 log (Tsys2 / Tsys1 ) = 10 log (301 / 239 ) = 1.0 dB 10 10
The improvement at 144 MHz is very small because the Antenna Temperature = 200 kelvin predominates.
Let see the situation for 435 MHz were the Antenna Temperature is less and only 50 kelvin in a rural area
Preamplifier antenna mounted:
Noise Figure NF = 0.55 dB Noise Factor F = 10^(NF/10) = 10^0.055 = 1.13 The equivalent Noise Temperature T = (1.13 -1 ) x 290 = 39 kelvin If you live in a rural area the equivalent Noise Antenna Temperature T1 = 50 kelvin so that your Tsys1 = 39 + 50 = 89 kelvin
Preamplifier in the shak:
Overall Noise Figure = 0.55 + 1.35 = 1.9 dB Overall Noise Factor F = 10^(10/1.9) = 10^0.19 = 1.55 The equivalent Noise Temperature T = (1.55-1) x 290 = 159 kelvin Since the antenna is the same Tsys2 = 159 +50 = 209 kelvin
The improvement with the preamplifier antenna mounted against shack mounted is
10 log (Tsys2 / Tsys1 ) = 10 log (209 / 89 ) = 3.7 dB 10 10
The improvement in 435 MHz is greater because the Antenna Temperature = 50 kelvin do not predominates over the equivalent Preamplifier Noise Temperature.
By the way 3.7 dB of more swing in the S meter over the noise is more than half of a S point so that in your situation I would put only the 435 MHz preamplifier at the antenna and would leave the 144 MHz preamplifier in the shack.
CONCLUSION:
Since the loss of 50 feet of LMR400 is very small the advantage in (S+N)/N ratio to put the low noise preamplifiers antenna mounted is only 1 db at 144 MHz and 3.7 dB at 435 MHz in a rural area. If the installation is made in a suburban area or in a urban area where the equivalent Antenna Noise level is greater and predominates then the advantages are accordingly less.
I hope this helps.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "Elan Portnoy" elanportnoy@yahoo.com To: "amsat bb" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:40 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Preamp location tech question
Well, it's clear what I should do. Will try remounting
on masts as soon as weather permits. Looking forward to improvements in performance.
Thanks to all and happy holidays!