Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.

22 Jul 2020

      Joseph,
I went through my LinkedIn activity, and couldn't find what you were
talking about. It is however true that I have publicly been very critical
of AMSAT management, a crime I share with three candidates and apparently
something that can subject you to legal action!
As you know, I was recently sued for my speech, in a classic SLAPP lawsuit,
and I stuck with the case rather than bowing to intimidation and removing
my speech from the internet. This ended with the plaintiff paying $300,000
for my defense. I take exception to AMSAT's legal action against Michelle
in Patrick for their speech, and your making what seem to be anti-speech
appeals here. I don't know what posting you are objecting to, or even who
wrote it. But it sounds like an attempt to suppress speech to me.
ORI was formed to carry on the Phase 4 Ground project. It's mission has
expanded considerably since then.
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:38 AM Joseph Armbruster josepharmbruster@gmail.com
wrote:
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Bruce,
I was referring to all the "report to members" stuff I saw on LinkedIn
a while back, not election material.  I was on LinkedIn one day and I
was absolutely dumbfounded at some of the stuff that was posted.
All 'member organization', or Member Society means is, you have an
organization and you paid a little more money for the membership (from
what I can gather from the bylaws).  It doesn't imply any special kind
of relationship.  I could join a club tomorrow and we could click the
"Join Now" button, pay the fee and become a 'member organization'
also.  Why would you create a member society to get the work of the
organization itself done... that makes Negative sense...  Why not
"Just do it" through your own?
What work Couldn't you get done with AMSAT, specifically?
Joseph Armbruster
Joseph Armbruster
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens bruce@perens.com wrote:
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Joseph,
What I posted on LinkedIn, where I know I have a following of hams, was
the election flyer I also put up at
http://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
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Of course I also ran it on Twitter, QRZ, and others have reposted it to
additional venues.
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This is election campaign material. It really boggles the mind that
people take exception to election campaign material posted in locations
where members who do not subscribe to the BB might read it. And you
consider it embarrassing.
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I submit that this is authoritarian thinking. The very implication to
others that an incumbent is accused of running the organization improperly
must be kept within closed doors and never shown to others. We must
suppress the appearance of dissent and publicly support the authorities.
...
This follows what I said before about people taking opposition as evil,
unprofessional, etc. Campaigning is a basic part of democracy, and yes it
gets aggressive sometimes.
...
ORI is an AMSAT member organization which we created because we couldn't
get the work done at AMSAT. If it continues to be the case that we can't
get the work done at AMSAT, obviously we are not going to take that as a
direction to abandon the work. Carrying it out within ORI would be
necessary.
...
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:03 AM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster@gmail.com> wrote:
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Bruce,
I think your descent into mediocrity assessment is baseless and your
statement:"We will work on the issue
over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue
to get the participation and grants that were previously directed
toward AMSAT." speaks absolute volumes.  It actually gives credence to
those that are saying some are coming into the organization to "take
it over" amongst other things.  It also shows a general lack of
knowledge and understanding of all the things AMSAT has been up to and
the time / work that it takes.  It also tells everyone on the -bb
about your loose commitment to the real success of AMSAT, when you're
willing to just "go do it with someone else".  That's not commitment,
that's having one foot out the door.  No doubt, this attitude is
reflected in your choice of candidates.
I (and I think many others on the -bb) are tired of vile blog posts
and I am personally, not supportive of seeing LinkedIn posts badgering
AMSAT publically... vs taking up issues as professionals within the
organization.  I am still dumbfounded by the stuff I saw posted on
LinkedIn... It shows a general lack of professionalism and in my
opinion is likely a symptom of larger, more-substantial interpersonal
issues that people are bringing to the table, that likely are the
root-cause of a lot of the "doesn't work well with people" stuff
that's been stated on here.
The term Loose Cannon comes to mind, or, bad apples spoil the bunch.
I mean, if you really think the organization is that bad, do yourself
a favor and leave it alone.  Be the bigger person Bruce, take your
team that has a proven track record and run with it.  You can be this
generations Elon of amateur radio in space!  Why let AMSAT slow you
down?
The constant badgering and harassment of members and directors that
actually have a track-record, is beyond me.  What AMSAT needs is to
maintain the people with a Proven Track Record Of Getting Things Done,
not those with a documented track record of whining, complaining and
making empty promises without substance.
Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer, just got my vote.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO (renewed!)
Joseph Armbruster
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
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One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found
"No-Code
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International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide.
We
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appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby
their IARU
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vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of
the
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hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry
hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although
there
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were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to
the
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Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he
very
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graciously made up after the decision was made.
Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an
election as that is truly ludicrous.
If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a
decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the
issue
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over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we
continue to
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get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward
AMSAT.
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But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline,
please vote for these candidates:
Bob McGwier N4HY
Howie DeFelice AB2S
Jeff Johns WE4B
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org
wrote:
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Michelle,
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Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes
one of
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us look bad... and it isn’t me.
You are probably one of only two people on this list who could
possibly
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twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim.  Given
the
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complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and
healthful
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day.
73,
Alan
WA4SCA
From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM
To: APBIDDLE@mailaps.org; Alan wa4sca@gmail.com
Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
consider.
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes
one of us
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look bad... and it isn’t me.
Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight
have
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been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of
them out
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without anyone getting bothered.
The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member
society. If
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you are out there, we need your help.
Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement
for
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everyone.
Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
-mdt
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org
mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org > wrote:
Michelle,
Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual
motivations.  A lightning response consisting of a dense
smokescreen, or
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perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target.  :)
73,
Alan
WA4SCA

You can fool some of the people all of the time,
all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
<-----Original Message-----
<From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle@gmail.com
<mailto:
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mountain.michelle@gmail.com> ]
<Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM
<To: APBIDDLE@mailaps.org mailto:APBIDDLE@mailaps.org ; Alan <
wa4sca@gmail.com mailto:wa4sca@gmail.com >
<Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org
<Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
consider.
<
<That is true.
<
<It’s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a
minority of the Directors,
<and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
<
<I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected
leaders
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isn’t a hostile
<takeover. It’s just plain hostile.
<
<Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
<
<Unlike other things that we do, this isn’t rocket science.
<
<A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is
not an
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asset to the
<corporation.
<
<Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
<
<-Michelle W5NYV
<
<On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org
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mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org  <mailto:amsat- mailto:amsat-
<bb@amsat.org mailto:bb@amsat.org > > wrote:
<
<
<       John,
<
<       It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile
takeover rather
<       than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and
ideology
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rather than
<       money. That is important when understanding the tools being
used,
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and in
<       looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are
somewhat
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different in
<       the two cases.
<
<       73,
<
<       Alan
<       WA4SCA
<
<
<
<
<       <-----Original Message-----
<       <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org mailto:
amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org  <mailto:amsat-bb- mailto:amsat-bb-
<bounces@amsat.org mailto:bounces@amsat.org > ] On Behalf Of
john--- via
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<       <AMSAT-BB
<       <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
<       <To: amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org
<mailto:
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amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org >
<       <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what?
Something to
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consider.
<       <
<       <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago,
"What is
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going on
<       <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war.
And it is
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<       <nasty and it's tearing us apart.
<       <
<       <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is
hard to
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determine
<       <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to
have any
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<       <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real
issues
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becomes
<       <clear.
<       <
<       <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago
when
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members
<       <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in
the mail.
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<       <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem
will
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go away.
<       < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and
Michelle
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are not
<       <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the
election is
<       <over.
<       <
<       <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived
yesterday. And
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so did
<       <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I
read the
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<       <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments
on other
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<       <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked
about some
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of
<       <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular
Board
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<       <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the
third vote
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<       <required to demand General Board meetings be held
regularly!
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That's
<       <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements.
The same
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person
<       <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some
helpful
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and
<       <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
<       <
<       <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote
for. He
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<       <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past
efforts with
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AMSAT
<       <along with comments about personal interactions, if any.
Those
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are good
<       <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues
does
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the
<       <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to
deal with
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them?
<       <
<       <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way
to
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bring our
<       <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an
agreement
<       <with all parties that will restore civility and respect
for all
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members,
<       <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is
suggesting
<       <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with
fiscal
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<       <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've
pondered how
<       <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of
working.
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But
<       <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I
will
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defer to
<       <the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
<       <
<       <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail
a plan
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to
<       <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are
things that
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<       <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high
school
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<       <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you
should be
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able
<       <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the
candidates with
<       <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting
their
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votes.
<       < Let's see what happens!
<       <
<       <73, John K8YSE
<       <_______________________________________________
<       <Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org
<mailto:
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AMSAT-BB@amsat.org mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org > . AMSAT-NA
<makes this open forum available
<       <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
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Opinions
<       expressed
<       <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official
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views of
<       AMSAT-NA.
<       <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
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program!
<       <Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<
<       _______________________________________________
<       Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org
<mailto:
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AMSAT-BB@amsat.org mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org > . AMSAT-NA
<makes this open forum available
<       to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
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Opinions
<expressed
<       are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official
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views of AMSAT-NA.
<       Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
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program!
<       Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<
<
<--
<
<-Michelle W5NYV
<
<
<"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
<

Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org . AMSAT-NA
makes
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this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
...
...
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expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
...
...
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...
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
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Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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--
-Michelle W5NYV
"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."

Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
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...
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
...
...
...
...
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
...
...
...
...
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
...
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Subscription settings:
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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
...
...
...
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
...
...
...
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
...
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...
Subscription settings:
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