As I started this thread perhaps I should finish it. My original point was the ratio of Satellite operators to experimenters must be about 50:1, so it makes far more sense to put up a bird that people will and more importantly " can " use than continually developing more and more sophisticated modes etc. The biggest thrill I've had in 25 years as a Ham is to work 67 countries and all continents in the 18 months or so that I discovered AO-40. I'd played with AO 7 etc back in 80-81 but this was " FUN " and thats the point I tried to make with my earlier post. I will donate to P3E as it will give me many options to use the gear I already have. There are no other options for me, living in Western Australia, Leo's are a complete waste of time and money, I can talk to myself on every pass on any satellite going over, no one else will be there to reply !! Well maybe the same 2 or 3 people. If Amsat NA must persue the Eagle option then please be prepared to revert back to AO-13 / AO-40 type birds when it fails. Can we finish this hread of mine now please? 73 Keith