Good point. But perhaps to significantly reduce the costs of mailing an opt in to receiving the ballot via email could be instituted. While the opt in should probably be done by paper such that there is a verifiable record of such it could easily be done via a printable form the same as voting and the form mailed with renewal or separately at any time.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 18, 2018, at 9:54 AM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
Remember that we have life members dating to the early 1970s. We don't have email addresses for all of our members in order to do something like that.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org wrote:
Perhaps there is a happy medium here. How about emailing the ballot as a pdf to each member. If necessary each pdf could be encoded slightly different (possibly serialized) for each member. It is then up to the member to print and mail the return ballot. If one wanted to squabble over postage that can be printed as well. The key to this is that the info that identifies the unique ballot is not linked in any way to the member it was sent to but the member can verify from the serial number that is known only to them that the ballot was received and counted.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 18, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
Does AMSAT maintain a printing press and envelope factory to produce the current mailings? I think the solution is called "contracting" and I am aware that there are companies that offer such services at a reasonable cost.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 4:53 AM E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote: What would the upfront cost of setting up electronic voting? It seems to me that it would be analogous to Solar electricity. Higher end, up front cost verses “free” power down the road. If you are advocating the change are you willing to invest your own time energy and perhaps $$$ to reduce the cost to AMSAT? After all can a cash strapped organization afford $10k or higher solution right now, even for lower cost in the future? Regardless this will not be an overnight solution. Like building a satellite it will require planning and deadlines and engineering, both software and social. I personally like the idea on online voting. I also like the idea of electronic delivery of the Journal, but we have found even that is a bit more complicated and costly than one might think.
73 EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Devin L. Ganger devin@thecabal.org wrote:
Concur with AF6EP. Doing electronic ballots is inexpensive. Doing them *correctly* is not.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Eric Fort Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:55 PM To: Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com Cc: Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us; AMSAT Mailing List amsat-bb@amsat.org; Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only casts one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the paper ballot is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one and only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then separated from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In the digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire papers and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact thing. Do the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
> On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote: > > Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post. > > Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism. > > 73, > Mike Diehl > W8LID > >> On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org wrote: >> >> Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer. >> >> Eric >> Af6ep >> >> Sent using SMTP. >> >>> On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented >>> organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two >>> sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that >>> electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting >>> more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent >>> some members from not receiving ballots like last year. >>> >>> 73, >>> Gabe >>> AL6D/VE6NJH >>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote: >>>> >>>> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to >>>> AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July >>>> 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots >>>> received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted. >>>> >>>> New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on >>>> yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. >>>> >>>> Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: >>>> Tom Clark, K3IO >>>> Mark Hammond, N8MH >>>> Scott Harvey, KA7FVV >>>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO >>>> Peter Portanova, W2JV >>>> >>>> The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving >>>> the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two >>>> alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received. >>>> >>>> 73, >>>> Clayton >>>> W5PFG >>>> AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >>>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >>>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and >>>> do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>>> Subscription settings: >>>> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>> Subscription settings: >>> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. >> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb