Steve that is about what I expected. I had always hoped it could happen again. I guess all the AO-40 equipment - amps, pre-amps, antennas, rotators, rigs, switches, and a-lot of stuff I don't even remember will remain in sealed boxes - a-lot brand new and even more used only a few hours will remain there until my estate sale... back to my old 40 M dipole like Ed said. You guys take care & 73's.
De WA5QAP
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Phase IV satellite or GOLF
From: "Edward Maikranz" <maikranze@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, August 15, 2022 2:07 am
To: jim@beeson.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I cant address any of the technical issues, but maybe the operational side
> of things. One of the things we are able to do with the current fleet is
> start a conversation on one satellite and continue it on another. Say you
> w\are working a guy on CAS-4B, before you reach LOS you can look and see
> what is going to be overhead next. You tell the other station I will catch
> you on the upcoming pass of RS-44 (For example). That can be fun and
> challenging to do. Maybe not as convenient as having a 30 minute rag chew
> on 40 meters but still fun in a different way.
>
> 73,
> Ed
> KG5UN
> EM50
>
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 8:38 PM <jim@beeson.cc> wrote:
>
>> I have realized the past few days that our AMSAT group has some really
>> smart Hams! Thanks very much for the information. I have a few more
>> questions. As I said before I would like to have more than a five minute
>> QSO. I am not much of a contester, more a rag chewer. But I am afraid, if I
>> understand most of you correctly, that is probably not going to happen in
>> my life time? I reference K0JM's comments it's not so much the money but
>> the regulatory environment that will stop this. I don't see this getting
>> any easier in the next year, five years, or ten years. Does anybody else
>> see anything different? And throwing in N8FGV's comments about the timing
>> of the launch seems like a long shot as well. I spent a ton of money prior
>> to AO-40 getting equipment ready to go in high hopes of having an AO-13
>> length run with so much more to do! I was terribly excited about this bird
>> only to have it vanish before my eyes before I really got started. My last
>> question is would a GOLF type satellite have the same obstacles as a Phase
>> IV bird? If so I am probably going to have a-lot of satellite ham gear for
>> sale real soon. Again thanks for your input.
>>
>> WA5QAP
>>
>> (licensed in 1966)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
>> Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Phase IV satellite
>>
From: "Daniel Schultz" <n8fgv@usa.net>
>> Date: Fri, August 12, 2022 6:57 pm
>> To: "AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb@amsat.org>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> > Hosting our payload on a commercial GEO satellite would likely cost more
>> than
>> > $10 million if the commercial satellite owner is to be fully compensated
>> for
>> > the engineering modifications to their satellite and potential loss of
>> > transponder revenue from diverting satellite resources to a
>> non-productive
>> > payload over a 15 year design lifetime. Offering a tax break will
>> probably not
>> > make up this difference. You might have better luck seeking hosting on a
>> > government owned satellite such as the Air Force mission that was
>> discussed by
>> > AMSAT a few years ago, but eventually fell through. This is where
>> carefully
>> > cultivated personal relationships can come in, if you have any such
>> friends in
>> > high places. OSCAR-1 got its launch approved back in 1961 because of a
>> few
>> > highly placed hams in the Pentagon, so keep up with your networking and
>> maybe
>> > it can happen.
>> >
>> > Some orbits are inherently unstable, for example 63 degree Molniya
>> orbits will
>> > reliably decay in a few years. The Late, Great OSCAR-13 provides a prime
>> > example of this. Their orbital lifetime is heavily sensitive to the time
>> of
>> > launch, if AO-13 was launched a few hours earlier it would still be up
>> there,
>> > a few hours later it would have reentered a couple of years after
>> launch. This
>> > is easy to model in GMAT.
>> >
>> > As a secondary payload, we don't get to choose the launch time, our only
>> hope
>> > would be to use thrusters to make slight post-launch adjustments so the
>> > satellite reenters not too early (as AO-13 did) and not too late. I have
>> been
>> > trying to figure out how to do this but have not had any results so far.
>> If we
>> > have a dedicated launch all to ourselves we can choose a launch time that
>> > meets our requirements.
>> >
>> > The NASA Cubesat that was recently grounded was aiming for a GTO launch,
>> which
>> > has been mentioned as a possible target for an AMSAT mission because we
>> could
>> > possibly get one cheap. Analysis of NORAD tracking data shows a lot of
>> spent
>> > rocket bodies that have been in GTO for decades, so this might not be
>> the best
>> > choice for a mission that needs a guaranteed reentry date.
>> >
>> > Another possibility would be to place the satellite directly into the GEO
>> > graveyard orbit and let it slowly drift around the Earth. There are
>> plenty of
>> > other HEO or Cislunar orbits that are not sensitive to orbital debris
>> > requirements and may not be commercially attractive but would work OK
>> for our
>> > needs.
>> >
>> > So yes, if we had $10 million in our bank account we could buy our way
>> out of
>> > a lot of problems that only affect poor people who are lacking options.
>> >
>> > 73, Dan N8FGV
>> >
>> >
>> > ------ Original Message ------
>> > Received: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 12:28:55 PM EDT
>> >
>>
From: Paul Andrews <w2hro.fn20@gmail.com>
>> > Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Phase IV satellite
>> >
>> >> Yes! Find a commercial GEOsat with room to support an amateur payload.
>> >> Leverage commercial economics for launch and platform reliability. The
>> >> commercial operator can donate (tax break) the value of the ham (STEM)
>> >> capability. Maybe ham bands at 10 GHz and above. Simple bent pipe.
>> >
>> >
>> > ------ Original Message ------
>> > Received: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 11:28:21 AM EDT
>> >
>>
From: "Mark Johns, K0JM" <k0jm.mark@gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Phase IV satellite
>> >
>> >> The launch costs, while significant, are beside the point. The biggest
>> >> issue with HEO satellites are the regulatory challenges. AMSAT and
>> >> international partners could build and get ready for launch such a
>> >> satellite within a few years, just as they did with AO-10, AO-13, and
>> >> AO-40. But they would not get a license to put it into orbit in the
>> >> current regulatory environment. The technical and financial challenges
>> >> can be met, but the licensing requirements are killing us.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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