At 10:02 PM 1/24/2007, Roger Kolakowski wrote:

Eric discovered...

"...and apparently the ISS is not a satellite."

Hi Eric...

AMSAT has never considered ISS as a satellite and has always maintained the SAREX Board and discouraged crossposting so that no-one gets confused and thinks that it has satellite "status."

Dear Friends,

I think there is a little confusion here.

From AMSAT's Glossary of Terms, the definition of an amateur satellite is an;

"..amateur communications relay station orbiting above the earth"

Therefore, it is very clear that a contact between an earth station and an astronaut on the ISS is NOT a satellite contact It does not matter if it is packet or FM or SSTV. It is a contact with an aeronautical station. ARRL and AMSAT are completely consistent on this.

On the other hand, a contact between two earth stations that use a transponder that happens to be on the ISS is clearly a satellite contact. Again, it does not matter whether it is packet or FM.

I believe PCSAT-2 was denied an OSCAR number because it was just another payload on board the ISS, it is not an autonomous satellite. Just as you would not give separate OSCAR numbers to AO-51's Mode V/U and mode L/S transponders since they are just additional payloads.

On the other hand, contacts through PCSAT-2 certainly count as satellite contacts. This is also clearly AMSAT policy. From the AMSAT web site::

"...there is no requirement for an OSCAR number to be assigned to a satellite in order for it to be legitimately recognized and used in the amateur satellite service."

I think the major point of confusion for many people is that a contact with a manned spacecraft does not count as a satellite contact because it is not a relay station and ARRL and AMSAT both agree here.

73, Tony AA2TX

Things like this only help to minimize the enjoyment of the hobby.

I enjoy the heck out of packet. I never had more fun than trying to bang packets through Mir near the end of her life. I also used to enjoy monitoring a few of the other sats (UO-11, DOVE, AO-16) years ago. The rare couple times I heard Shuttle voice contacts made we want to improve my station a bit, but I became inactive and that never happened.

The thought of getting on ISS for either the repeater or packet is exciting. I've got enough hardware now to run APRS and have a second radio/TNC for ISS, and all that's missing from my 1995 setup is the Commodore 64! I'm enjoying assembling what's needed, much like anyone else has assembled a station (dish, modems, SSB rigs, etc) for whatever bird(s) they were wanting to work, albeit a bit more plug and play.

So in the middle of this excitement, I flip around the web a bit, and see where some "higher powers" want to tell that my voice contacts are really not worthy of counting as satellite contacts, because the station on that end is up there, and I am down here.. more like simplex from ground to tower. Ok, well, that's fine.. I can see that.. And sorta agree.

These same "high powers" want to tell me that although my packet/repeater contacts will be with other stations on the ground, much like any other satellite, because we've already decided ISS contacts are not satellite contacts, what we are doing is not worthy of being counted as a satellite contact.

Wow, that sure makes me feel like I've done nothing more than talk to a station 100 feet away on an FRS radio. Why bother? What we're doing really doesn't count, does it?

Ok, I am not really that naive or uninformed, but certainly those same thoughts are present. If you're going to imply what I am doing is no harder than chatting with my sister on IM or my girlfriend on the cell phone, I think I'll go do that and buy a new laptop with my ham radio money.

Just my $.02

Danny Messano KE4RAP

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Eric Christensen Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:34 PM To: Roger Kolakowski Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS Not A Satellite WAS: Satellites and the LoTW

Roger, I believe there is a misconception here. Whatever your opinion about the ISS, I believe the AMSAT Board has felt made a distinction.

When talking to the astronauts on the ISS you aren't making a satellite contact. It is a LOS (line of sight) contact. When you make a contact with someone else on the ground VIA the ISS then it is a satellite contact.

I am trying to get the ARRL to recognize the ISS as a satellite when contacts are made VIA their gear not when you make a contact with the ISS.

Eric KF4OTN

Roger Kolakowski wrote:

Eric discovered...

"...and apparently the ISS is not a satellite."

Hi Eric...

AMSAT has never considered ISS as a satellite and has always maintained the SAREX Board and discouraged crossposting so that no-one gets confused and thinks that it has satellite "status."

This has made for some interesting situations' including the release of Suitsat-1 which was SAREX news until it was released and then it became AMSAT-BB news. Another example is PCSAT-2, which never left ISS, and was not considered a satellite.

Perhaps ARRL is just taking the lead of AMSAT in LoTW.

In reality, packet should have nothing to do with it and should be accepted as a mode, perhaps titled "Digital" to cover many of the alternative modes now available through software.

Seems silly and sounds like a turf war, but there it is...

Roger WA1KAT

----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" kf4otn@ericsatcom.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:08 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellites and the LoTW

...

If you read my posts a few weeks ago about the ACLog and LoTW not being satellite friendly and you wanted to know more, read on.

I've been working with Kathy Allison, KA1RWY, who is the ARRL Contest Assistant & LoTW Specialist. My biggest concern was that LoTW didn't support all the satellites. One of my contacts can't be put into the system because my conversation with AJ, AJ3U, was via the ISS using packet and apparently the ISS is not a satellite.

The response I received from the ARRL on this was "At this time LoTW won't accept ISS as satellite. From what I was told, you have to put phone or CW and it will accept it." which I got from Kathy. That doesn't fly with me. I have asked her to contact the sysadmin for LoTW and that if the admin needs any help with squaring away the satellite portion of the system to please contact me and I'll be happy to help get all the satellites straight in the system. I'm still waiting to hear back from them.

After LoTW is straight, I hope to work with the creators of ACLog to make that log more satellite friendly.

Now, does anyone want to help me take an ACLog and turn it into a SQL file???

73s, Eric KF4OTN AMSAT Member 35360 AMSAT Area Coordinator

Please donate to the Eagle project! http://www.amsat-na.com/donation.php?donate=eagle

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Eric Christensen wrote:

Roger, I believe there is a misconception here. Whatever your opinion about the ISS, I believe the AMSAT Board has felt made a distinction.

When talking to the astronauts on the ISS you aren't making a satellite contact. It is a LOS (line of sight) contact. When you make a contact with someone else on the ground VIA the ISS then it is a satellite contact.

I am trying to get the ARRL to recognize the ISS as a satellite when contacts are made VIA their gear not when you make a contact with the ISS.

ARRL should recognize the ISS as a country. That would stir up the pot. If Scarborough reef is a country, then why can't the ISS be a country?

ARRL should recognize the ISS as a country. That would

...

stir up the pot. If Scarborough reef is a country, then why can't the ISS be a country?

You mean s DXCC Entity not a country - DXCC Entities are artificial creations that have nothing to do with countries, that's why there are 200 more DXCC Entities than countries.

Yeah, DXCC entity, It would have to be done carefully in order to prevent DX-crazy hams from hounding the astronauts off the band. But if someone wanted to pay the Russians the X-million dollars to go up there to operate a DX-pedition, this would be keeping with the spirit of DXCC I believe. Seems to me the international nature of the space station gives it kind of 'DXCC entity-like' nature, however the specific rules are lawyered.

Oh I like that idea. It should be its own DXCC entity AND it should have an IOTA number as well.

Eric KF4OTN

Cathryn Mataga wrote:

Eric Christensen wrote:

...

Roger, I believe there is a misconception here. Whatever your opinion about the ISS, I believe the AMSAT Board has felt made a distinction.

When talking to the astronauts on the ISS you aren't making a satellite contact. It is a LOS (line of sight) contact. When you make a contact with someone else on the ground VIA the ISS then it is a satellite contact.

I am trying to get the ARRL to recognize the ISS as a satellite when contacts are made VIA their gear not when you make a contact with the ISS.

ARRL should recognize the ISS as a country. That would stir up the pot. If Scarborough reef is a country, then why can't the ISS be a country? _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb