Antennas for Satelittes Operations.
Hello all,
I hope to know what kind of antenna you use for satelittes on 70cm and 2m bands (Cross yagi, Helicoidal antennas, …)
Many thanks per advance.
73s. Francis, F1RRJ.
I have use (depending on the situation) Homebrew Quadrifilar Helix Antenna for 2m and 70cm. I mainly use Homebrew Cross-Fed (RHCP)12 El 2m Yagi, and cross-fed (RHCP) 26 El 70cm along with 20dB, 0.8dB NF LNAs
Herb
Please excuse any typo's as this was sent from my iPhone.
On Apr 10, 2022, at 3:39 AM, Francis F1RRJ f1rrj3@orange.fr wrote:
Hello all,
I hope to know what kind of antenna you use for satelittes on 70cm and 2m bands (Cross yagi, Helicoidal antennas, …)
Many thanks per advance.
73s. Francis, F1RRJ.
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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Crossed yagis in circular polarization, such as the M2 LEOpack, are probably the most popular satellite antennas in the U.S. In Europe, I believe that circularly polarized quad antennas, such as the Wimo beams, may be a bit more popular.
While many types of antennas will work, most operators quickly become dissatisfied with various omnidirectional antennas and will switch to small beams for added gain, especially for receiving. Receive preamps near the antenna are also most helpful if feedlines are longer than 10-12 meters or so.
Also, while linear antennas (horizontal or vertical) will provide gain, they will also suffer from polarization fading as the satellites tumble in space. Circular polarization, or the ability to switch quickly between horizontal and vertical polarization, are much preferred. -- Mark D. Johns, KØJM AMSAT Ambassador & News Service Editor Brooklyn Park, MN USA EN35hd ----------------------------------------------- "Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." ---Mark Twain
On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 3:39 AM Francis F1RRJ f1rrj3@orange.fr wrote:
Hello all,
I hope to know what kind of antenna you use for satelittes on 70cm and 2m bands (Cross yagi, Helicoidal antennas, …)
Many thanks per advance.
73s.
Francis, F1RRJ.
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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Spot on advice.
From: Mark Johns, K0JM k0jm.mark@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2022 9:05 AM To: Francis F1RRJ f1rrj3@orange.fr Cc: Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Antennas for Satelittes Operations.
Crossed yagis in circular polarization, such as the M2 LEOpack, are probably the most popular satellite antennas in the U.S. In Europe, I believe that circularly polarized quad antennas, such as the Wimo beams, may be a bit more popular.
While many types of antennas will work, most operators quickly become dissatisfied with various omnidirectional antennas and will switch to small beams for added gain, especially for receiving. Receive preamps near the antenna are also most helpful if feedlines are longer than 10-12 meters or so.
Also, while linear antennas (horizontal or vertical) will provide gain, they will also suffer from polarization fading as the satellites tumble in space. Circular polarization, or the ability to switch quickly between horizontal and vertical polarization, are much preferred.
--
Mark D. Johns, KØJM AMSAT Ambassador & News Service Editor Brooklyn Park, MN USA EN35hd
-----------------------------------------------
"Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit,
you would stay out and your dog would go in."
---Mark Twain
On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 3:39 AM Francis F1RRJ <f1rrj3@orange.fr mailto:f1rrj3@orange.fr > wrote:
Hello all,
I hope to know what kind of antenna you use for satelittes on 70cm and 2m bands (Cross yagi, Helicoidal antennas, …)
Many thanks per advance.
73s.
Francis, F1RRJ.
-----------------------------------------------------------
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On 4/10/22 11:04, Mark Johns, K0JM wrote:
Also, while linear antennas (horizontal or vertical) will provide gain, they will also suffer from polarization fading as the satellites tumble in space. Circular polarization, or the ability to switch quickly between horizontal and vertical polarization, are much preferred.
That said, at least one operator has made solid contacts using only two "J-pole" type antennas, one each for VHF and UHF, on the XW and RS satellites. :-D
Start out small and cheap, get your feet wet, then incrementally improve your setup. It'll be a lot of fun no matter what!
--- Zach N0ZGO
Agreed. My first contacts were all done with a copper pipe J-pole and a whopping 10 watts for the uplink, received by a Radio Shack DX-440 receiver fed by a long wire strung out to a tree in the back yard.
Unfortunately, the wonderful RS "Easy Sats" are long gone now, but folks do pretty well with a pair of HTs and an Arrow antenna. One gets a real sense for antenna patterns and satellite spin when blessing the sky by waving a hand-held antenna around. It's something one can never truly get an appreciation for with an automated Az/El antenna system.
Greg KO6TH
Zach Metzinger wrote:
On 4/10/22 11:04, Mark Johns, K0JM wrote:
Also, while linear antennas (horizontal or vertical) will provide gain, they will also suffer from polarization fading as the satellites tumble in space. Circular polarization, or the ability to switch quickly between horizontal and vertical polarization, are much preferred.
That said, at least one operator has made solid contacts using only two "J-pole" type antennas, one each for VHF and UHF, on the XW and RS satellites. :-D
Start out small and cheap, get your feet wet, then incrementally improve your setup. It'll be a lot of fun no matter what!
--- Zach N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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+1 to Greg’s comment.If you can’t get into the birds with 10 watts (5 is more like it for most of them) you should probably take a good hard look at your rig. Running a portable setup will help make this point crystal clear.A directional antenna is the way to go- for the benefit of ALL users. NathanN5LEX
On Sunday, April 10, 2022, 6:52 PM, Greg D ko6th.greg@gmail.com wrote:
Agreed. My first contacts were all done with a copper pipe J-pole and a whopping 10 watts for the uplink, received by a Radio Shack DX-440 receiver fed by a long wire strung out to a tree in the back yard.
Unfortunately, the wonderful RS "Easy Sats" are long gone now, but folks do pretty well with a pair of HTs and an Arrow antenna. One gets a real sense for antenna patterns and satellite spin when blessing the sky by waving a hand-held antenna around. It's something one can never truly get an appreciation for with an automated Az/El antenna system.
Greg KO6TH
Zach Metzinger wrote:
On 4/10/22 11:04, Mark Johns, K0JM wrote:
Also, while linear antennas (horizontal or vertical) will provide gain, they will also suffer from polarization fading as the satellites tumble in space. Circular polarization, or the ability to switch quickly between horizontal and vertical polarization, are much preferred.
That said, at least one operator has made solid contacts using only two "J-pole" type antennas, one each for VHF and UHF, on the XW and RS satellites. :-D
Start out small and cheap, get your feet wet, then incrementally improve your setup. It'll be a lot of fun no matter what!
--- Zach N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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-----------------------------------------------------------
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I had a lot of fun with Xquad antennas : https://www.wimo.com/fr/x-quad 73's Francis F6DED
Le lun. 11 avr. 2022 à 01:16, nathanjwhite nathanjwhite@frontier.com a écrit :
+1 to Greg’s comment. If you can’t get into the birds with 10 watts (5 is more like it for most of them) you should probably take a good hard look at your rig. Running a portable setup will help make this point crystal clear. A directional antenna is the way to go- for the benefit of ALL users.
Nathan N5LEX
On Sunday, April 10, 2022, 6:52 PM, Greg D ko6th.greg@gmail.com wrote:
Agreed. My first contacts were all done with a copper pipe J-pole and a whopping 10 watts for the uplink, received by a Radio Shack DX-440 receiver fed by a long wire strung out to a tree in the back yard.
Unfortunately, the wonderful RS "Easy Sats" are long gone now, but folks do pretty well with a pair of HTs and an Arrow antenna. One gets a real sense for antenna patterns and satellite spin when blessing the sky by waving a hand-held antenna around. It's something one can never truly get an appreciation for with an automated Az/El antenna system.
Greg KO6TH
Zach Metzinger wrote:
On 4/10/22 11:04, Mark Johns, K0JM wrote:
Also, while linear antennas (horizontal or vertical) will provide gain, they will also suffer from polarization fading as the satellites tumble in space. Circular polarization, or the ability to switch quickly between horizontal and vertical polarization, are much preferred.
That said, at least one operator has made solid contacts using only two "J-pole" type antennas, one each for VHF and UHF, on the XW and RS satellites. :-D
Start out small and cheap, get your feet wet, then incrementally improve your setup. It'll be a lot of fun no matter what!
--- Zach N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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Hi,
Down link can be achieved with Verticals.
Polarization is good if you A) understand it and B) really need it.
X-Quads have narrowed beam width but good gain.
I have also mounted Arrow hand heads on a home made Az/El setup.
Couple real gotchas. Get very up to date - 2line Kep files TLEs And very precise clock/NTP And make sure you location data with ASL is correct in your software Ensure you check the ‘birds’ operation status and rules. Like do not use in the dark passes! Lastly use absolute minimum power from you location.
Oh vertical donut effect will affect stuff. 😊
Sent from my iPhone G6SGA
On 11 Apr 2022, at 08:22, Francis Colau fcolau@gmail.com wrote:
I had a lot of fun with Xquad antennas : https://www.wimo.com/fr/x-quad 73's Francis F6DED
Le lun. 11 avr. 2022 à 01:16, nathanjwhite nathanjwhite@frontier.com a écrit : +1 to Greg’s comment. If you can’t get into the birds with 10 watts (5 is more like it for most of them) you should probably take a good hard look at your rig. Running a portable setup will help make this point crystal clear. A directional antenna is the way to go- for the benefit of ALL users.
Nathan N5LEX
On Sunday, April 10, 2022, 6:52 PM, Greg D ko6th.greg@gmail.com wrote:
Agreed. My first contacts were all done with a copper pipe J-pole and a whopping 10 watts for the uplink, received by a Radio Shack DX-440 receiver fed by a long wire strung out to a tree in the back yard.
Unfortunately, the wonderful RS "Easy Sats" are long gone now, but folks do pretty well with a pair of HTs and an Arrow antenna. One gets a real sense for antenna patterns and satellite spin when blessing the sky by waving a hand-held antenna around. It's something one can never truly get an appreciation for with an automated Az/El antenna system.
Greg KO6TH
Zach Metzinger wrote:
On 4/10/22 11:04, Mark Johns, K0JM wrote:
Also, while linear antennas (horizontal or vertical) will provide gain, they will also suffer from polarization fading as the satellites tumble in space. Circular polarization, or the ability to switch quickly between horizontal and vertical polarization, are much preferred.
That said, at least one operator has made solid contacts using only two "J-pole" type antennas, one each for VHF and UHF, on the XW and RS satellites. :-D
Start out small and cheap, get your feet wet, then incrementally improve your setup. It'll be a lot of fun no matter what!
--- Zach N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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participants (10)
-
Clint Bradford -
Francis Colau -
Francis F1RRJ -
Greg D -
Herb Sims -
Mark Johns, K0JM -
Mike Lucas -
nathanjwhite -
Stephen Thornber -
Zach Metzinger