There's been a lot of good station advice on the reflector recently that I've really appreciated. I'm slowly but surely building up my sat ground station. I've got my Yaesu G5400B connected and running and I've got an antenna plan. The next issue is running coax.
What's the recommendation on coax runs? It looks like I'll have between 75 and 100 ft from the shack to the mount. I can envision running a separate line for 2m and 440, but is it also effective to use a diplexer at the antenna? Does that limit my ability to later add a mast-mounted preamp with power-over-coax? (I'll probably add preamp(s) at a later date)
Is the ultraflex coax really necessary for hooking up around the rotator? I'm sure it's better, but is it really worth the extra cost? I certainly don't want to pay the high price for ultraflex for the full run, especially if I'm using two lines.
Thoughts appreciated.
73, Keith
Keith, You want the lowest loss coax you can afford for your run. ½" hard line would be a good choice, though not inexpensive and neither are the connectors. Plus it is rather rigid and can be difficult to handle. Terminate it at the rotator and use a flexible jumper from there to the antennas. To use a diplexer you'll need one at both ends, assuming 2 antennas. Recall that a diplexer will have insertion loss of >3 dB. And that I don't believe they will pass DC. Though I haven't ever checked that. --- Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side. GEO
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.
From: "Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET" wd9get@amsat.org To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:11 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
There's been a lot of good station advice on the reflector recently that I've really appreciated. I'm slowly but surely building up my sat ground station. I've got my Yaesu G5400B connected and running and I've got an antenna plan. The next issue is running coax.
What's the recommendation on coax runs? It looks like I'll have between 75 and 100 ft from the shack to the mount. I can envision running a separate line for 2m and 440, but is it also effective to use a diplexer at the antenna? Does that limit my ability to later add a mast-mounted preamp with power-over-coax? (I'll probably add preamp(s) at a later date)
Is the ultraflex coax really necessary for hooking up around the rotator? I'm sure it's better, but is it really worth the extra cost? I certainly don't want to pay the high price for ultraflex for the full run, especially if I'm using two lines.
Thoughts appreciated.
73, Keith
Keith, I am about where you are in my satellite station setup.
I chose 9913F for coax and am running three coax lines plus two rotator cables of 8 wires each. I have 2M, 70cm, and 23cm antennas (helix), all with their own coax run. The reason I chose 8-wire rotator cable for my G-5500 is so I can pull two-wires out of each cable for the 2M and 70cm polarity switches on those crossed-yagi CP antennas.
I'm also using a fiberglass mast from Max-Gain but only going up about 15 feet.
Hope that helps.
Bob W7CQX
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 11:12 AM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Keith, You want the lowest loss coax you can afford for your run. ½" hard line would be a good choice, though not inexpensive and neither are the connectors. Plus it is rather rigid and can be difficult to handle. Terminate it at the rotator and use a flexible jumper from there to the antennas. To use a diplexer you'll need one at both ends, assuming 2 antennas. Recall that a diplexer will have insertion loss of >3 dB. And that I don't believe they will pass DC. Though I haven't ever checked that. --- Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side. GEO
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.
From: "Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET" <wd9get@amsat.org>To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:11 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
There's been a lot of good station advice on the reflector recently that I've really appreciated. I'm slowly but surely building up my sat ground station. I've got my Yaesu G5400B connected and running and I've got an antenna plan. The next issue is running coax.
What's the recommendation on coax runs? It looks like I'll have between 75 and 100 ft from the shack to the mount. I can envision running a separate line for 2m and 440, but is it also effective to use a diplexer at the antenna? Does that limit my ability to later add a mast-mounted preamp with power-over-coax? (I'll probably add preamp(s) at a later date)
Is the ultraflex coax really necessary for hooking up around the rotator? I'm sure it's better, but is it really worth the extra cost? I certainly don't want to pay the high price for ultraflex for the full run, especially if I'm using two lines.
Thoughts appreciated.
73, Keith --
Keith E. Brandt, MD, MPH /wd9get@amsat.org/ /Christianity and science are opposed… but only in the same sense as my thumb and forefinger are opposed- and between them I can grasp everything. /—Sir William Bragg (Nobel Prize for Physics- 1915) *This message transmitted with 100% recycled electrons _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
With that kind of coax run, you'll definitely want the lowest loss feedline you can afford, and you'll probably want the pre-amps sooner than later. If hard line is out of the picture, LMR 600 is a good alternative. Several outlets will sell custom lengths with connectors attached. You can get by with LMR 400 or Belden 9913 on the 2 meter side, but loss at 435 MHz will be greater. I would avoid the diplexer like the plague.
As GEO mentioned, you really only need the flexy stuff at the point where things are rotating. I run LMR 600 to the pre-amp, just below the rotor, and ultra-flex from the pre-amp to the antenna. A good, moderate-cost alternative for pre-amps are the "Mini" pre-amps from SHF Elektronik in Germany http://www.shf-elektronik.de/en/ -- Mark D. Johns KØJM / MØGZO / ex-9H3DJ / ex-KØMDJ Brooklyn Park, MN USA EN35hd ----------------------------------------------- "Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." ---Mark Twain
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 1:12 PM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Keith, You want the lowest loss coax you can afford for your run. ½" hard line would be a good choice, though not inexpensive and neither are the connectors. Plus it is rather rigid and can be difficult to handle. Terminate it at the rotator and use a flexible jumper from there to the antennas. To use a diplexer you'll need one at both ends, assuming 2 antennas. Recall that a diplexer will have insertion loss of >3 dB. And that I don't believe they will pass DC. Though I haven't ever checked that. --- Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side. GEO
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.
From: "Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET" <wd9get@amsat.org>To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:11 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
There's been a lot of good station advice on the reflector recently that I've really appreciated. I'm slowly but surely building up my sat ground station. I've got my Yaesu G5400B connected and running and I've got an antenna plan. The next issue is running coax.
What's the recommendation on coax runs? It looks like I'll have between 75 and 100 ft from the shack to the mount. I can envision running a separate line for 2m and 440, but is it also effective to use a diplexer at the antenna? Does that limit my ability to later add a mast-mounted preamp with power-over-coax? (I'll probably add preamp(s) at a later date)
Is the ultraflex coax really necessary for hooking up around the rotator? I'm sure it's better, but is it really worth the extra cost? I certainly don't want to pay the high price for ultraflex for the full run, especially if I'm using two lines.
Thoughts appreciated.
73, Keith --
Keith E. Brandt, MD, MPH /wd9get@amsat.org/ /Christianity and science are opposed… but only in the same sense as my thumb and forefinger are opposed- and between them I can grasp everything. /—Sir William Bragg (Nobel Prize for Physics- 1915) *This message transmitted with 100% recycled electrons _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Mark, you suggested that you would ". . . avoid the diplexer like the plague." Why exactly?
I use a Comet CFX 4310C at each end of 60' of cable.
.3dB not 3 dB of insertion loss.
CFX-4310C 2M/440/1200MHz Triplexer
Band Pass Loss Max Power 1.3-150MHz .25dB 1000W PEP 350-500MHz .25dB 500W PEP 840-1400MHz 0.3dB 200W PEP
Isolation: 50dB
One run of cable and one surge protector with three antennas. In operation for 25 years with no problems.
73,
Ron VA7VW
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Mark D. Johns Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 12:06 PM To: wd9get@amsat.org Cc: AMSAT amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
With that kind of coax run, you'll definitely want the lowest loss feedline you can afford, and you'll probably want the pre-amps sooner than later. If hard line is out of the picture, LMR 600 is a good alternative. Several outlets will sell custom lengths with connectors attached. You can get by with LMR 400 or Belden 9913 on the 2 meter side, but loss at 435 MHz will be greater. I would avoid the diplexer like the plague.
As GEO mentioned, you really only need the flexy stuff at the point where things are rotating. I run LMR 600 to the pre-amp, just below the rotor, and ultra-flex from the pre-amp to the antenna. A good, moderate-cost alternative for pre-amps are the "Mini" pre-amps from SHF Elektronik in Germany http://www.shf-elektronik.de/en/ -- Mark D. Johns KØJM / MØGZO / ex-9H3DJ / ex-KØMDJ Brooklyn Park, MN USA EN35hd ----------------------------------------------- "Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." ---Mark Twain
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 1:12 PM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Keith, You want the lowest loss coax you can afford for your run. ½" hard line would be a good choice, though not inexpensive and neither are the connectors. Plus it is rather rigid and can be difficult to handle. Terminate it at the rotator and use a flexible jumper from there to the antennas. To use a diplexer you'll need one at both ends, assuming 2 antennas. Recall that a diplexer will have insertion loss of >3 dB. And that I don't believe they will pass DC. Though I haven't ever checked that. --- Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side. GEO
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.
From: "Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET" <wd9get@amsat.org>To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:11 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
There's been a lot of good station advice on the reflector recently that I've really appreciated. I'm slowly but surely building up my sat ground station. I've got my Yaesu G5400B connected and running and I've got an antenna plan. The next issue is running coax.
What's the recommendation on coax runs? It looks like I'll have between 75 and 100 ft from the shack to the mount. I can envision running a separate line for 2m and 440, but is it also effective to use a diplexer at the antenna? Does that limit my ability to later add a mast-mounted preamp with power-over-coax? (I'll probably add preamp(s) at a later date)
Is the ultraflex coax really necessary for hooking up around the rotator? I'm sure it's better, but is it really worth the extra cost? I certainly don't want to pay the high price for ultraflex for the full run, especially if I'm using two lines.
Thoughts appreciated.
73, Keith --
Keith E. Brandt, MD, MPH /wd9get@amsat.org/ /Christianity and science are opposed… but only in the same sense as my thumb and forefinger are opposed- and between them I can grasp everything. /—Sir William Bragg (Nobel Prize for Physics- 1915) *This message transmitted with 100% recycled electrons _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Triplexer/Duplexers work quite nicely for most satellite operations. At least for the LEOs and AO-7.
Comments like "plague" paint with too broad a brush and are not technically sound.
73, N0AN Hasan
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 8:58 PM niederwil1388@gmail.com wrote:
Mark, you suggested that you would ". . . avoid the diplexer like the plague." Why exactly?
I use a Comet CFX 4310C at each end of 60' of cable.
.3dB not 3 dB of insertion loss.
CFX-4310C 2M/440/1200MHz Triplexer
Band Pass Loss Max Power 1.3-150MHz .25dB 1000W PEP 350-500MHz .25dB 500W PEP 840-1400MHz 0.3dB 200W PEP
Isolation: 50dB
One run of cable and one surge protector with three antennas. In operation for 25 years with no problems.
73,
Ron VA7VW
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Mark D. Johns Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 12:06 PM To: wd9get@amsat.org Cc: AMSAT amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
With that kind of coax run, you'll definitely want the lowest loss feedline you can afford, and you'll probably want the pre-amps sooner than later. If hard line is out of the picture, LMR 600 is a good alternative. Several outlets will sell custom lengths with connectors attached. You can get by with LMR 400 or Belden 9913 on the 2 meter side, but loss at 435 MHz will be greater. I would avoid the diplexer like the plague.
As GEO mentioned, you really only need the flexy stuff at the point where things are rotating. I run LMR 600 to the pre-amp, just below the rotor, and ultra-flex from the pre-amp to the antenna. A good, moderate-cost alternative for pre-amps are the "Mini" pre-amps from SHF Elektronik in Germany http://www.shf-elektronik.de/en/ -- Mark D. Johns KØJM / MØGZO / ex-9H3DJ / ex-KØMDJ Brooklyn Park, MN USA EN35hd
"Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." ---Mark Twain
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 1:12 PM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Keith, You want the lowest loss coax you can afford for your run. ½" hard line would be a good choice, though not inexpensive and neither are the connectors. Plus it is rather rigid and can be difficult to handle. Terminate it at the rotator and use a flexible jumper from there to the antennas. To use a diplexer you'll need one at both ends, assuming 2 antennas. Recall that a diplexer will have insertion loss of >3 dB. And that I don't believe they will pass DC. Though I haven't ever checked that. --- Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side. GEO
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.
From: "Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET" <wd9get@amsat.org>To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:11 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
There's been a lot of good station advice on the reflector recently that I've really appreciated. I'm slowly but surely building up my sat ground station. I've got my Yaesu G5400B connected and running and I've got an antenna plan. The next issue is running coax.
What's the recommendation on coax runs? It looks like I'll have between 75 and 100 ft from the shack to the mount. I can envision running a separate line for 2m and 440, but is it also effective to use a diplexer at the antenna? Does that limit my ability to later add a mast-mounted preamp with power-over-coax? (I'll probably add preamp(s) at a later date)
Is the ultraflex coax really necessary for hooking up around the rotator? I'm sure it's better, but is it really worth the extra cost? I certainly don't want to pay the high price for ultraflex for the full run, especially if I'm using two lines.
Thoughts appreciated.
73, Keith --
Keith E. Brandt, MD, MPH /wd9get@amsat.org/ /Christianity and science are opposed… but only in the same sense as my thumb and forefinger are opposed- and between them I can grasp everything. /—Sir William Bragg (Nobel Prize for Physics- 1915) *This message transmitted with 100% recycled electrons _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satelliteprogram!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (6)
-
Bob Hammond -
GEO Badger -
Hasan al-Basri -
Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET -
Mark D. Johns -
niederwil1388＠gmail.com