Transparency and Double Standards
Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD election cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the Lawyers or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an argument.
Michelle Wrote: "Unless, of course, this Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong hill. as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just convenient."
Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a simple political stunt. Enough already.
I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals whom I respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep amateur radio in space.
EMike, AA8EM
E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service, Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
You might have missed the part where all of the information in this particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already transparent.
The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only restriction we are talking about.
This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors access to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and communications after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you as a member are not allowed to know about.
Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD election cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the Lawyers or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an argument.
Michelle Wrote: "Unless, of course, this Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong hill. as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just convenient."
Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a simple political stunt. Enough already.
I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals whom I respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep amateur radio in space.
EMike, AA8EM
E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service, Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Michelle,
The request form itself contains ALL OF THE INFORMATION that anyone on the -bb should care about on this matter.
For all we know right now, the request paperwork may not have even referenced the designs that you speak of. We literally have no way of knowing.
Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:18 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
You might have missed the part where all of the information in this particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already transparent.
The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only restriction we are talking about.
This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors access to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and communications after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you as a member are not allowed to know about.
Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
election
cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
Lawyers
or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an argument.
Michelle Wrote: "Unless, of course, this Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
presented
to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong hill. as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just convenient."
Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a simple political stunt. Enough already.
I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals whom I respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep amateur radio in space.
EMike, AA8EM
E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service, Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
If the request paperwork did not show ITAR 120.11 designs and policies, then it would not have been approved. All of the information is available already, to the general public. That's why it was successful. The work is NOT subject to ITAR because the approach complies with existing regulations.
This is not an easy process to get through.
The result is really good news.
You can keep arguing with the US State Department all you like, but I don't think that is a very good strategy. This dramatically reduces volunteer risk for AMSAT and all related organizations. It has a huge positive impact for free and open international collaboration on amateur satellite projects.
Thank you to everyone that will be a positive part of this going forward.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 11:54 AM Joseph Armbruster < josepharmbruster@gmail.com> wrote:
Michelle,
The request form itself contains ALL OF THE INFORMATION that anyone on the -bb should care about on this matter.
For all we know right now, the request paperwork may not have even referenced the designs that you speak of. We literally have no way of knowing.
Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:18 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
You might have missed the part where all of the information in this particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already transparent.
The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only restriction we are talking about.
This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors access to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and communications after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you as a member are not allowed to know about.
Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
election
cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
Lawyers
or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an argument.
Michelle Wrote: "Unless, of course, this Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
presented
to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
products.
Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the
wrong
hill. as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just convenient."
Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
simple
political stunt. Enough already.
I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals whom I respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep amateur radio in space.
EMike, AA8EM
E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service, Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (3)
-
E.Mike McCardel -
Joseph Armbruster -
Michelle Thompson