ANS-041 AMSAT News Service Special Bulletin
AMSAT NEWS SERVICE ANS-041 Special Bulletin
SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-041.01 ANS-041 AMSAT Fox-1 Cubesat Selected for NASA ELaNa Launch Collaboration
AMSAT News Service Bulletin 041.01
From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD.
February 10, 2012 To All RADIO AMATEURS BID: $ANS-041.01
Project ELaNa, NASA's "Educational Launch of NanoSat" managed by the Launch Services Program at the Kennedy Space Center, announced on February 10 that the AMSAT Fox-1 cubesat has been selected to join the program.
NASA will work with AMSAT in a collaborative agreement where NASA will cover the integration and launch costs of satellites deemed to have merit in support of their strategic and educational goals.
Watch for full details to be published in the AMSAT Journal.
AMSAT teamed with the ARRL to write and deliver the 159 page educa- tional proposal to NASA. Letters documenting the importance of AMSAT's satellites in the education programs at the ARRL and also at the Clay Center for Science and Technology at the Dexter and Southfield schools in Brookline, MA, were important parts of our proposal.
AMSAT President Barry Baines, WD4ASW said, "The ELaNA Launch oppor- tunity marks AMSAT's return to space after the conclusion of the successful ARISSat-1/KEDR flight. We need to get the flight Fox-1, along with an operational flight backup satellite, built, integrat- ed, tested, and delivered. Our ability to provide a spacecraft and get it launched is dependent upon the active support of our donors who wish to see Fox-1 fly."
AMSAT Vice-President of Engineering, Tony Monteiro, AA2TX noted this will provide a launch opportunity for AMSAT's next generation of FM repeater satellites with features and operation beyond the experience of AO-51. AMSAT's Fox-1 Engineering Team is making progress developing the advanced satellite that will provide these features:
+ Fox-1 is designed to operate in sunlight without batteries once the battery system fails. This applies lessons learned from AO-51 and ARISSat-1 operations.
+ In case of IHU failure Fox-1 will continue to operate its FM repeater in a basic, 'zombie sat' mode, so that the repeater remains on-the-air.
+ Fox-1 is designed as the immediate replacement for AO-51. Its U/V (Mode B) transponder will make it even easier to work with modest equipment.
+ From the ground user's perspective, the same FM amateur radio equipment used for AO-51 may be used for Fox-1.
+ Extending the design, Fox-2 will benefit from the development work of Fox-1 by adding more sophisticated power management and Software Defined Transponder (SDX) communications systems.
The Fox-1 Project presents an opportunity to literally put your call- sign on the Fox hardware. AMSAT is looking for major donations to help underwrite the cost of solar cells/panels, one of the more significant expenses of the project.
These solar cells are needed for the flight unit as well as for the a flight spare. As Fox-1 will have solar cells on all six sides of the spacecraft and given the relatively small surface area available on each side (at most 4" by 4" per side), AMSAT needs to invest in high efficiency solar cells to gain as much power as possible to operate the spacecraft.
Several opportunities to make your donation to keep amateur radio in space include:
+ Return the form sent with the letter to reply with your donation for the Fox-1 Project. - All donations over $40 will receive a Fox pin. - Donations of $120 or more qualify you for AMSAT President's Club
+ Call Martha at the AMSAT Office +1-888-FB AMSAT (1-888-322-6728) + Paypal donation widget on the main page at: http://www.amsat.org + Paypal donation widget for Project Fox at: http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/fox/ + You can also go to the Paypal site and send your donation to martha@amsat.org. + The AMSAT Store: http://www.amsat-na.com/store/categories.php
Project Fox web site provide a good overview of the technical progress of the new satellite: http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/fox/
[ANS thanks AMSAT President Barry Baines, WD4ASW, AMSAT Vice-President of Engineering, Tony Monteiro, AA2TX and AMSAT's Project Fox Engineering team for the above information]
/EX
----- Original Message ----- From: "JoAnne Maenpaa" k9jkm@comcast.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 12:12 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-041 AMSAT News Service Special Bulletin
AMSAT NEWS SERVICE ANS-041 Special Bulletin
SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-041.01 ANS-041 AMSAT Fox-1 Cubesat Selected for NASA ELaNa Launch Collaboration
AMSAT News Service Bulletin 041.01 From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD. February 10, 2012 To All RADIO AMATEURS BID: $ANS-041.01
< snip>
- Return the form sent with the letter to reply with your donation for the Fox-1 Project.
- All donations over $40 will receive a Fox pin.
- Donations of $120 or more qualify you for AMSAT President's Club
I invite All to donate the maximum as possible only to AMSAT-DL for P3E because AMSAT-NA before the launch of OSCAR-10 promised to the Radio Amateur Community to communicate by satellite much better than in HF.........Where actually the Amateur Satellite Service have gone ?
I pull only for AMSAT-DL and P3E because looking to the AMSAT-NA projects for a HEO at this time, before AO40 died I invested a lot of money in my HEO satellite station for nothing.
I trust only on P3E because the AMSAT-DL President DB2OS,Peter Guelzow on 29 JAN 2012 writes on this AMSAT-BB the following message:
"Indeed all money donated to the P3-E project goes into the P3-E project and we are grateful for all those direct contributions and support in particular from many individual AMSAT-NA members and indeed many other hams from around the world. Due to ITAR, unfortunatly AMSAT-NA had to stop all it's official support (including money, which hurts) for P3-E several years ago, as you wrote.. For example, we had to re-build and continue the IHU hardware and software development on our own resources. The same for the original SDX development, etc. The S/C is still sitting in our clean room in Marburg and waiting to be finalized. Having no firm launch date yet, activities slowed down in some areas, while other activities and groups are highly active and well alive. The biggest problem is indeed having no firm launch date yet.. this is frustration for everyone involved. We all put so much volunteer work and time into it...
When I read "Forget P3-E, build an MEO" (that's how I read it first) I was indeed very concerned.. should we really forget all the hard work, time and money which already went into the project and scrap it??? And what than? No - I'm not giving up...
OK, reading the second time I understood that Dave meant we should put P3-E on VEGA and use it's propulsion to go to MEO...
Unfortunately things are not so easy.. P3-E was designed to go from GTO into HEO. For example, all the magnetic attitude control won't work in MEO anymore, etc.. Thus we were looking for GTO, but would it fit on VEGA? Indeed, we could try an elliptical orbit with a much lower apogee, but than we have to carefully study the effects of orbit resonances which caused AO-13 to burn-up too soon. However, I do sympathize with the idea and we thought about it in the past, but discarded the idea for reasons I have almost forgotten now. So, perhaps we should look again at it.. do some orbit and fuel calculation, study orbit perturbations and orbit stability again and see what the impact will be on the S/C design. Any volunteers for that?
As Nitin wrote, we contacted AMSAT-India to help with contacts to ISRO, we are in contact with SpaceX and I recently had a personal letter exchange with the CEO of Arianespace. If a launch possibility arises, we will be on it. It is not always a matter of money, but also a matter of compatibility to slip in. Ariane-5 for example is a real workhorse now with standard launch configurations. Any change on that costs them a lot of money. If there is an "unusual" configuration were they have to ask industry for a configuration change, than it might also be easier for us to slip in.. That simply means we have to wait for the right moment or finding new qualification flight.. Ariane 5ME is such opportunity we are actively working on, but this will not be before 2018.
In the last several month our work and priority was mostly focused regarding our funding situation and to improve it. Although most people still did not understand it, but the P5-A project is one these opportunity we need. It is well alive and currently heavily discussed within the highest ranks inside of our government organizations. Apart from this, we are currently working on another project to fly an hosted payload on a GEO satellite... A decision is not made yet, but if we get the opportunity it will provide some neat communication capabilities. Our previous heritage and P5 will help here too.."
73s Peter DB2OS
Hello Peter.......be sure that all of us with experience from OSCAR-10 to AO40 are pulling for P3E......go-ahead ! !
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
Go FOX ES GO P3E!!
PSE DONATE!!!
Rafael VALDEZ XE2RV
On Feb 11, 2012, at 12:50 AM, "i8cvs" domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "JoAnne Maenpaa" k9jkm@comcast.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 12:12 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-041 AMSAT News Service Special Bulletin
AMSAT NEWS SERVICE ANS-041 Special Bulletin
SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-041.01 ANS-041 AMSAT Fox-1 Cubesat Selected for NASA ELaNa Launch Collaboration
AMSAT News Service Bulletin 041.01 From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD. February 10, 2012 To All RADIO AMATEURS BID: $ANS-041.01
< snip>
- Return the form sent with the letter to reply with your donation
for the Fox-1 Project.
- All donations over $40 will receive a Fox pin.
- Donations of $120 or more qualify you for AMSAT President's Club
I invite All to donate the maximum as possible only to AMSAT-DL for P3E because AMSAT-NA before the launch of OSCAR-10 promised to the Radio Amateur Community to communicate by satellite much better than in HF.........Where actually the Amateur Satellite Service have gone ?
I pull only for AMSAT-DL and P3E because looking to the AMSAT-NA projects for a HEO at this time, before AO40 died I invested a lot of money in my HEO satellite station for nothing.
I trust only on P3E because the AMSAT-DL President DB2OS,Peter Guelzow on 29 JAN 2012 writes on this AMSAT-BB the following message:
"Indeed all money donated to the P3-E project goes into the P3-E project and we are grateful for all those direct contributions and support in particular from many individual AMSAT-NA members and indeed many other hams from around the world. Due to ITAR, unfortunatly AMSAT-NA had to stop all it's official support (including money, which hurts) for P3-E several years ago, as you wrote.. For example, we had to re-build and continue the IHU hardware and software development on our own resources. The same for the original SDX development, etc. The S/C is still sitting in our clean room in Marburg and waiting to be finalized. Having no firm launch date yet, activities slowed down in some areas, while other activities and groups are highly active and well alive. The biggest problem is indeed having no firm launch date yet.. this is frustration for everyone involved. We all put so much volunteer work and time into it...
When I read "Forget P3-E, build an MEO" (that's how I read it first) I was indeed very concerned.. should we really forget all the hard work, time and money which already went into the project and scrap it??? And what than? No - I'm not giving up...
OK, reading the second time I understood that Dave meant we should put P3-E on VEGA and use it's propulsion to go to MEO...
Unfortunately things are not so easy.. P3-E was designed to go from GTO into HEO. For example, all the magnetic attitude control won't work in MEO anymore, etc.. Thus we were looking for GTO, but would it fit on VEGA? Indeed, we could try an elliptical orbit with a much lower apogee, but than we have to carefully study the effects of orbit resonances which caused AO-13 to burn-up too soon. However, I do sympathize with the idea and we thought about it in the past, but discarded the idea for reasons I have almost forgotten now. So, perhaps we should look again at it.. do some orbit and fuel calculation, study orbit perturbations and orbit stability again and see what the impact will be on the S/C design. Any volunteers for that?
As Nitin wrote, we contacted AMSAT-India to help with contacts to ISRO, we are in contact with SpaceX and I recently had a personal letter exchange with the CEO of Arianespace. If a launch possibility arises, we will be on it. It is not always a matter of money, but also a matter of compatibility to slip in. Ariane-5 for example is a real workhorse now with standard launch configurations. Any change on that costs them a lot of money. If there is an "unusual" configuration were they have to ask industry for a configuration change, than it might also be easier for us to slip in.. That simply means we have to wait for the right moment or finding new qualification flight.. Ariane 5ME is such opportunity we are actively working on, but this will not be before 2018.
In the last several month our work and priority was mostly focused regarding our funding situation and to improve it. Although most people still did not understand it, but the P5-A project is one these opportunity we need. It is well alive and currently heavily discussed within the highest ranks inside of our government organizations. Apart from this, we are currently working on another project to fly an hosted payload on a GEO satellite... A decision is not made yet, but if we get the opportunity it will provide some neat communication capabilities. Our previous heritage and P5 will help here too.."
73s Peter DB2OS
Hello Peter.......be sure that all of us with experience from OSCAR-10 to AO40 are pulling for P3E......go-ahead ! !
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Yes, Dom, Peter, Jo Anne, and all the other good guys out there:
Jo Anne send me the form for the 40 dollar pin, and I'm sending $40 also to the DL website....
Come on guys, these contributions are making donations to help educate the children of the WORLD help make better decisions about our WORLD.....ESA is doing something about it, and if we make enough noise perhaps we can convince our politicos in the USA to do something with the money besides spend it on campaign posters the way they are doing today.
Off MY soapbox, and hoping to generate a few bucks
73 and a good weekend to all
Dave in sunny San Diego
----- Original Message ----- From: "JoAnne Maenpaa" k9jkm@comcast.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 12:12 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-041 AMSAT News Service Special Bulletin
AMSAT NEWS SERVICE ANS-041 Special Bulletin
SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-041.01 ANS-041 AMSAT Fox-1 Cubesat Selected for NASA ELaNa Launch Collaboration
AMSAT News Service Bulletin 041.01 From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD. February 10, 2012 To All RADIO AMATEURS BID: $ANS-041.01
< snip>
- Return the form sent with the letter to reply with your donation
for the Fox-1 Project.
- All donations over $40 will receive a Fox pin.
- Donations of $120 or more qualify you for AMSAT President's Club
I invite All to donate the maximum as possible only to AMSAT-DL for P3E because AMSAT-NA before the launch of OSCAR-10 promised to the Radio Amateur Community to communicate by satellite much better than in HF.........Where actually the Amateur Satellite Service have gone ?
I pull only for AMSAT-DL and P3E because looking to the AMSAT-NA projects for a HEO at this time, before AO40 died I invested a lot of money in my HEO satellite station for nothing.
I trust only on P3E because the AMSAT-DL President DB2OS,Peter Guelzow on 29 JAN 2012 writes on this AMSAT-BB the following message:
"Indeed all money donated to the P3-E project goes into the P3-E project and we are grateful for all those direct contributions and support in particular from many individual AMSAT-NA members and indeed many other hams from around the world. Due to ITAR, unfortunatly AMSAT-NA had to stop all it's official support (including money, which hurts) for P3-E several years ago, as you wrote.. For example, we had to re-build and continue the IHU hardware and software development on our own resources. The same for the original SDX development, etc. The S/C is still sitting in our clean room in Marburg and waiting to be finalized. Having no firm launch date yet, activities slowed down in some areas, while other activities and groups are highly active and well alive. The biggest problem is indeed having no firm launch date yet.. this is frustration for everyone involved. We all put so much volunteer work and time into it...
When I read "Forget P3-E, build an MEO" (that's how I read it first) I was indeed very concerned.. should we really forget all the hard work, time and money which already went into the project and scrap it??? And what than? No - I'm not giving up...
OK, reading the second time I understood that Dave meant we should put P3-E on VEGA and use it's propulsion to go to MEO...
Unfortunately things are not so easy.. P3-E was designed to go from GTO into HEO. For example, all the magnetic attitude control won't work in MEO anymore, etc.. Thus we were looking for GTO, but would it fit on VEGA? Indeed, we could try an elliptical orbit with a much lower apogee, but than we have to carefully study the effects of orbit resonances which caused AO-13 to burn-up too soon. However, I do sympathize with the idea and we thought about it in the past, but discarded the idea for reasons I have almost forgotten now. So, perhaps we should look again at it.. do some orbit and fuel calculation, study orbit perturbations and orbit stability again and see what the impact will be on the S/C design. Any volunteers for that?
As Nitin wrote, we contacted AMSAT-India to help with contacts to ISRO, we are in contact with SpaceX and I recently had a personal letter exchange with the CEO of Arianespace. If a launch possibility arises, we will be on it. It is not always a matter of money, but also a matter of compatibility to slip in. Ariane-5 for example is a real workhorse now with standard launch configurations. Any change on that costs them a lot of money. If there is an "unusual" configuration were they have to ask industry for a configuration change, than it might also be easier for us to slip in.. That simply means we have to wait for the right moment or finding new qualification flight.. Ariane 5ME is such opportunity we are actively working on, but this will not be before 2018.
In the last several month our work and priority was mostly focused regarding our funding situation and to improve it. Although most people still did not understand it, but the P5-A project is one these opportunity we need. It is well alive and currently heavily discussed within the highest ranks inside of our government organizations. Apart from this, we are currently working on another project to fly an hosted payload on a GEO satellite... A decision is not made yet, but if we get the opportunity it will provide some neat communication capabilities. Our previous heritage and P5 will help here too.."
73s Peter DB2OS
Hello Peter.......be sure that all of us with experience from OSCAR-10 to AO40 are pulling for P3E......go-ahead ! !
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
73, Dave, WB6LLO dguimon1@san.rr.com
Disagree: I learn....
Pulling for P3E...
At 08:17 AM 2/11/2012 +0100, domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:
< snip>
- Return the form sent with the letter to reply with your donation for the Fox-1 Project.
- All donations over $40 will receive a Fox pin.
- Donations of $120 or more qualify you for AMSAT President's Club
I invite All to donate the maximum as possible only to AMSAT-DL for P3E because AMSAT-NA before the launch of OSCAR-10 promised to the Radio Amateur Community to communicate by satellite much better than in HF.........Where actually the Amateur Satellite Service have gone ?
I pull only for AMSAT-DL and P3E because looking to the AMSAT-NA projects for a HEO at this time, before AO40 died I invested a lot of money in my HEO satellite station for nothing.
Hi Domenico,
I agree with you. I've donated and want P3E as well, but the hams that only have Broken handhelds, Dead batteries, and Rubber ducks need a satellite too. We must be considerate of those that aren't serious about satellite. Those who only want to pass grids and prefer the circus clown CB like atmosphere of an FM bird.
73, KB7ADL
On 2/11/2012 12:33 PM, Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL wrote:
At 08:17 AM 2/11/2012 +0100, domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:
< snip>
- Return the form sent with the letter to reply with your donation for the Fox-1 Project.
- All donations over $40 will receive a Fox pin.
- Donations of $120 or more qualify you for AMSAT President's Club
I invite All to donate the maximum as possible only to AMSAT-DL for P3E because AMSAT-NA before the launch of OSCAR-10 promised to the Radio Amateur Community to communicate by satellite much better than in HF.........Where actually the Amateur Satellite Service have gone ?
I pull only for AMSAT-DL and P3E because looking to the AMSAT-NA projects for a HEO at this time, before AO40 died I invested a lot of money in my HEO satellite station for nothing.
Hi Domenico,
I agree with you. I've donated and want P3E as well, but the hams that only have Broken handhelds, Dead batteries, and Rubber ducks need a satellite too. We must be considerate of those that aren't serious about satellite. Those who only want to pass grids and prefer the circus clown CB like atmosphere of an FM bird.
73, KB7ADL
Vince, That is the most childish bovine crap I have seen in awhile, at least equal to any of the circus clown atmosphere you disdain.
P3E is off in the future, I don't even think the sat is close to ready to launch, and then you have the launch itself to consider, I want P3E also but I also understand its not going to be soon.
And yes I have donated to P3E.
On the other hand FOX is NOW we have a means of getting into space,which is the biggest hurdle, so it needs funding NOW to get completed and on that ride.
And yes I have donated to FOX several times, and I don't even get on the Leo's all that often.
Can LEO's be a zoo at times? sure but so was AO-40 at times also... I was on AO-40 and remember L band users louder than the beacon, I remember U band users pumping the AGC and lelia chasing their butt all over the sat.
You don't like LEO's Vince? fine.. then slide over and get the hell out of the way because FOX is on the move NOW.
I would prefer to have HEO's and LEO's rather than nothing and just listen to dead static each day.
Kevin WA6FWF
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Kevin!
P3E is off in the future, I don't even think the sat is close to ready to launch, and then you have the launch itself to consider, I want P3E also but I also understand its not going to be soon.
That's been a question of mine, and a question asked of me in the recent past. When someone asks me "Should I build my satellite station to work with HEO satellites now?", my answer is usually "Don't worry about it, until we have one in orbit".
Until that day comes, I'm going to have fun working our current satellites - in FM, SSB, and occasionally CW. When, or if, an HEO is launched, then I'll gladly reequip my station to work that as well.
I remember seeing that at the AMSAT-UK Colloquium last year, the P3E launch cost was quoted as 10 million euros. One thing I have never been able to clearly determine is how much of that 10 million euros has been raised. I know I can buy pixels on that picture that has been on the AMSAT-DL web page for a long time, but I expect there has been more raised than just what we see on that picture. Can anyone connected with AMSAT-DL answer? That would help to put the P3E fundraising effort into some context.
AMSAT-NA has the PayPal widgets that started out with one that was for ARISSat-1 and Fox, and now there's a Fox-only widget on the AMSAT web site and in other places (like my QRZ.com entries and web page). I know there has been more $$$ donated to AMSAT than just what shows up on the PayPal widget, and I hope that combined total is publicized shortly - and then publicized on a regular basis. The PayPal widget for the Fox project (not the one that was for ARISSat-1 and Fox) has increased by 1/3 in the past 24 hours since the announcement of the NASA decision.
On the other hand FOX is NOW we have a means of getting into space,which is the biggest hurdle, so it needs funding NOW to get completed and on that ride.
I agree 100%. I've already made a couple of contributions, and I'm hoping AMSAT is able to deliver Fox-1 to NASA for that launch. :-)
Projects like FUNcube and KiwiSAT have also done a good job of publicizing what they have been doing and their needs - financial or otherwise. I've contributed to them, and - in the case of KiwiSAT - made multiple contributions. I'm all for not putting all of our eggs in one basket. More satellites would be a good thing.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Wow, Here we go again. I have also donated to both projects. (and I'm retired!?) Just gave a presentation to a club in NJ. One of the members also pointed out that there is A lot of users exchanging info on the FM birds and seems to be pileup city. I get on most and get a QSO or 2 and then let the others have at it. Explaining the difference about LEO, MEO & HEO birds raised eyebrows and listeners asked about the HEO's and their Extended orbits usually with an SSB transponder. Everyone was made aware of their expensive costs to have these come about. However, they didn't realize that the costs were absorbed by "Donations" from many hams interested in this end of the hobby. Of course International agreements became a worldwide avenue of financial aid to requests. ITAR stopped info sharing and Dried up collaboration. Attitudes seemed to be "when you launch an HEO, I'd be interested in supporting this." No matter how I explained the urgency of hams supporting NOW for future projects, most seemed deaf to our plea. Patrick, we must continue to circulate these ideas and promote our growth so as launches become available and worked to fruition By our people, we have enough in the kitty to finish a project to meet them. Let's all stay on the same page.
Congrats to Tony, AA2TX, and his team for long hours of hard work to get his proposal recognized. Hoo-Rah.
Dee, NB2F
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 8:01 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ANS-041 AMSAT News Service Special Bulletin
Hi Kevin!
P3E is off in the future, I don't even think the sat is close to ready to launch, and then you have the launch itself to consider, I want P3E also but I also understand its not going to be soon.
That's been a question of mine, and a question asked of me in the recent past. When someone asks me "Should I build my satellite station to work with HEO satellites now?", my answer is usually "Don't worry about it, until we have one in orbit".
Until that day comes, I'm going to have fun working our current satellites - in FM, SSB, and occasionally CW. When, or if, an HEO is launched, then I'll gladly reequip my station to work that as well.
I remember seeing that at the AMSAT-UK Colloquium last year, the P3E launch cost was quoted as 10 million euros. One thing I have never been able to clearly determine is how much of that 10 million euros has been raised. I know I can buy pixels on that picture that has been on the AMSAT-DL web page for a long time, but I expect there has been more raised than just what we see on that picture. Can anyone connected with AMSAT-DL answer? That would help to put the P3E fundraising effort into some context.
AMSAT-NA has the PayPal widgets that started out with one that was for ARISSat-1 and Fox, and now there's a Fox-only widget on the AMSAT web site and in other places (like my QRZ.com entries and web page). I know there has been more $$$ donated to AMSAT than just what shows up on the PayPal widget, and I hope that combined total is publicized shortly - and then publicized on a regular basis. The PayPal widget for the Fox project (not the one that was for ARISSat-1 and Fox) has increased by 1/3 in the past 24 hours since the announcement of the NASA decision.
On the other hand FOX is NOW we have a means of getting into space,which is the biggest hurdle, so it needs funding NOW to get completed and on that ride.
I agree 100%. I've already made a couple of contributions, and I'm hoping AMSAT is able to deliver Fox-1 to NASA for that launch. :-)
Projects like FUNcube and KiwiSAT have also done a good job of publicizing what they have been doing and their needs - financial or otherwise. I've contributed to them, and - in the case of KiwiSAT - made multiple contributions. I'm all for not putting all of our eggs in one basket. More satellites would be a good thing.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Good evening, Dee!
By the way, I saw your mention in this evening's ANS bulletins that my Fox flyer is now posted on the Fox web page. I don't know who put it on the web page, but many thanks to you for mentioning it - and to whoever put it up there. I also had a good friend translate that flyer into Spanish. If that doesn't go up on the web page, I'm happy to e-mail that PDF to anyone interested in it.
Wow, Here we go again.
<snip> Attitudes seemed to be "when you launch an HEO, I'd be interested in supporting this." No matter how I explained the urgency of hams supporting NOW for future projects, most seemed deaf to our plea Patrick, we must continue to circulate these ideas and promote our growth so as launches become available and worked to fruition By our people, we have enough in the kitty to finish a project to meet them. Let's all stay on the same page.
I'm all for supporting an HEO project like P3E. My comment about waiting until we have an HEO satellite related to building a station to work a satellite that - at the moment - is nonexistent, not to the fundraising effort. I can buy or build what I need to work an HEO satellite at the appropriate time in the future. At this point, the $$$ I might use to build a bigger satellite station has been used in part toward satellite projects.
My question about how close AMSAT-DL is to paying for a launch is still a valid question. It would give me (and others) some idea on how close AMSAT-DL is to getting that launch. I've heard and read about P3E for many years, but have no idea how close we really are to seeing it launched. I'm just wanting to hear how much is in the "kitty" for P3E. That's why I have been happy to make one or two contributions a year to KiwiSAT. Those guys have been good at updating us on their progress, between AMSAT-BB posts and their web site. I'm hoping we can continue that with Fox-1, as it is built this year and the fundraising is (hopefully) successful.
Congrats to Tony, AA2TX, and his team for long hours of hard work to get his proposal recognized. Hoo-Rah.
Agreed, 100%!
So much work went into that, and I am happy that the hard work was recognized by NASA in their decision. Now our challenge is to first get that formal agreement with NASA signed, then to deliver a satellite for launch.
Time to get ready to work VO-52 outside....
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
From the amsat-dl website:
"Following preliminary work the formal go-ahead was given in 2002 by AMSAT-DL for the P5A Mars probe. It should begin its nine-month journey during launch windows in 2009 or 2011. Before then AMSAT-DL will
launch the P3E communications satellite with many test elements for the Mars mission."
"Many mechanical and electrical elements for the P3-E Satellite are ready to fly, or being finalized shortly. After the proper tests under space conditions (i.e. temperature tests in a vacuum chamber and vibration tests), AMSAT P3-E is ready for launch in Summer 2007." (Viele mechanische und elektrische Elemente für den P3-E Satelliten sind bereits flugfertig oder stehen kurz vor Ihrer Fertigstellung. Nach entsprechenden Härtetests unter Weltraumbedingungen (z.B. Temperaturtest in einer Vakuum-Kammer und Vibrationstest) steht AMSAT P3-E dann ab Sommer 2007 für einen Start bereit.) [Translated from German into English by me]
Well here we are in 2012 and there is not even the hint of an idea if/when/how P3-E might be launched. Somebody posted earlier that the earliest even remote possibility for a launch with Ariane-V will be 2018 ? The satellite itself is far from completion due to what ? Lack of funding, interest, qualified people to work on ? And yet Amsat-DL is planning to work on a MARS (!) mission since 2002, with a launch window in 2007, with a P3E launch _before_ that ?
I mean, I am all for great goals and bringing research forward and all. But maybe sometimes, somebody must admit that the goals set are a bit to ambitious ? In 2002 things might have looked a bit more positive, but today one could consider P5A nothing more then a pipe dream and even P3E fairly unrealistic ? Things have changed, researching, building, testing and launching of 150 kg HEO satellites (and interplanetary spacecraft for that manner) have become so expensive and time consuming that it seems unrealistic for a hobby-club to take on such a task.
You can think of Amsat-NA what you want, but at least they have acknowledged the sign of times: Get a cheap, small, basic FM LEO in orbit now - Not because its the best solution for the amateur radio community, but because this is something which can _done_.
I wish all the amsat organizations around the globe would line up behind one common goal and put all their efforts and resources behind that. Something which can be done in a somewhat reasonable time frame. Too bad that there are too many big ego's and politics involved to actually make that happen.
Just my 2 c
Andreas - VK4HHH
________________________________ From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, 12 February 2012 11:00 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ANS-041 AMSAT News Service Special Bulletin
Hi Kevin!
P3E is off in the future, I don't even think the sat is close to ready to launch, and then you have the launch itself to consider, I want P3E also but I also understand its not going to be soon.
That's been a question of mine, and a question asked of me in the recent past. When someone asks me "Should I build my satellite station to work with HEO satellites now?", my answer is usually "Don't worry about it, until we have one in orbit".
Until that day comes, I'm going to have fun working our current satellites - in FM, SSB, and occasionally CW. When, or if, an HEO is launched, then I'll gladly reequip my station to work that as well.
I remember seeing that at the AMSAT-UK Colloquium last year, the P3E launch cost was quoted as 10 million euros. One thing I have never been able to clearly determine is how much of that 10 million euros has been raised. I know I can buy pixels on that picture that has been on the AMSAT-DL web page for a long time, but I expect there has been more raised than just what we see on that picture. Can anyone connected with AMSAT-DL answer? That would help to put the P3E fundraising effort into some context.
AMSAT-NA has the PayPal widgets that started out with one that was for ARISSat-1 and Fox, and now there's a Fox-only widget on the AMSAT web site and in other places (like my QRZ.com entries and web page). I know there has been more $$$ donated to AMSAT than just what shows up on the PayPal widget, and I hope that combined total is publicized shortly - and then publicized on a regular basis. The PayPal widget for the Fox project (not the one that was for ARISSat-1 and Fox) has increased by 1/3 in the past 24 hours since the announcement of the NASA decision.
On the other hand FOX is NOW we have a means of getting into space,which is the biggest hurdle, so it needs funding NOW to get completed and on that ride.
I agree 100%. I've already made a couple of contributions, and I'm hoping AMSAT is able to deliver Fox-1 to NASA for that launch. :-)
Projects like FUNcube and KiwiSAT have also done a good job of publicizing what they have been doing and their needs - financial or otherwise. I've contributed to them, and - in the case of KiwiSAT - made multiple contributions. I'm all for not putting all of our eggs in one basket. More satellites would be a good thing.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Andy,
In all fairness to AMSAT-DL, they are an independent group of amateur radio operators that have the right to dream big and try hard to make it work. They are in touch with the German Ministry of Science and are still very actively looking at options for P3E. It is just not that simple trying to compete for government funding to support a launch. As for the status of P3E, the basic components are all there and can be very quickly finished. Remember, they and we are all folks that do that because of interest and willingness to volunteer. Yes, it sounds good to pool all resources together and focus on one project. At the same time, I think it is great that AMSAT NA is focusing on Cubesats and AMSAT DL is focussing on P3E+. Diversity is good, as long as it is not mutually exclusive. We have to have short term solutions to be able to dream big and make it happen. That's really my key message. We will always come up with the funds to build the satellite, we will never come up with all the funds ourselves to launch it (even AMSAT-NA needs NASA to launch a cubesat). At this point let us help the folks with Kiwisat, Funcube and Fox etc.
At the moment P3E has a target for launch many of us will help financially getting it ready. Let's not trash each others project (and you are not doing that!) but help where it makes a difference right now. We are sometimes our worst enemies.
BTW, just read the note that Sweden wants to cut out the amateur radio 2.4 GHz frequency for folks there (I think that what it was). They are trying to make a case for the amateur satellite use of that portion of the band and as far as I see it, there is no current active 2.4 GHz satellite for us to point to. We don't even have an argument to help them. We need any and all satellites to use the spectrum we have. The more the better. Otherwise, the only thing left for us to do is to HF (scary thought). Oh, by the way that's a joke (before I get blasted).
All the best, Stefan VE4NSA
On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Andy Kellner hawat1@yahoo.com wrote:
From the amsat-dl website:
"Following preliminary work the formal go-ahead was given in 2002 by AMSAT-DL for the P5A Mars probe. It should begin its nine-month journey during launch windows in 2009 or 2011. Before then AMSAT-DL will
launch the P3E communications satellite with many test elements for the Mars mission."
"Many mechanical and electrical elements for the P3-E Satellite are ready to fly, or being finalized shortly. After the proper tests under space conditions (i.e. temperature tests in a vacuum chamber and vibration tests), AMSAT P3-E is ready for launch in Summer 2007." (Viele mechanische und elektrische Elemente für den P3-E Satelliten sind bereits flugfertig oder stehen kurz vor Ihrer Fertigstellung. Nach entsprechenden Härtetests unter Weltraumbedingungen (z.B. Temperaturtest in einer Vakuum-Kammer und Vibrationstest) steht AMSAT P3-E dann ab Sommer 2007 für einen Start bereit.) [Translated from German into English by me]
Well here we are in 2012 and there is not even the hint of an idea if/when/how P3-E might be launched. Somebody posted earlier that the earliest even remote possibility for a launch with Ariane-V will be 2018 ? The satellite itself is far from completion due to what ? Lack of funding, interest, qualified people to work on ? And yet Amsat-DL is planning to work on a MARS (!) mission since 2002, with a launch window in 2007, with a P3E launch _before_ that ?
I mean, I am all for great goals and bringing research forward and all. But maybe sometimes, somebody must admit that the goals set are a bit to ambitious ? In 2002 things might have looked a bit more positive, but today one could consider P5A nothing more then a pipe dream and even P3E fairly unrealistic ? Things have changed, researching, building, testing and launching of 150 kg HEO satellites (and interplanetary spacecraft for that manner) have become so expensive and time consuming that it seems unrealistic for a hobby-club to take on such a task.
You can think of Amsat-NA what you want, but at least they have acknowledged the sign of times: Get a cheap, small, basic FM LEO in orbit now - Not because its the best solution for the amateur radio community, but because this is something which can _done_.
I wish all the amsat organizations around the globe would line up behind one common goal and put all their efforts and resources behind that. Something which can be done in a somewhat reasonable time frame. Too bad that there are too many big ego's and politics involved to actually make that happen.
Just my 2 c
Andreas - VK4HHH
From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, 12 February 2012 11:00 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ANS-041 AMSAT News Service Special Bulletin
Hi Kevin!
P3E is off in the future, I don't even think the sat is close to ready to launch, and then you have the launch itself to consider, I want P3E also but I also understand its not going to be soon.
That's been a question of mine, and a question asked of me in the recent past. When someone asks me "Should I build my satellite station to work with HEO satellites now?", my answer is usually "Don't worry about it, until we have one in orbit".
Until that day comes, I'm going to have fun working our current satellites - in FM, SSB, and occasionally CW. When, or if, an HEO is launched, then I'll gladly reequip my station to work that as well.
I remember seeing that at the AMSAT-UK Colloquium last year, the P3E launch cost was quoted as 10 million euros. One thing I have never been able to clearly determine is how much of that 10 million euros has been raised. I know I can buy pixels on that picture that has been on the AMSAT-DL web page for a long time, but I expect there has been more raised than just what we see on that picture. Can anyone connected with AMSAT-DL answer? That would help to put the P3E fundraising effort into some context.
AMSAT-NA has the PayPal widgets that started out with one that was for ARISSat-1 and Fox, and now there's a Fox-only widget on the AMSAT web site and in other places (like my QRZ.com entries and web page). I know there has been more $$$ donated to AMSAT than just what shows up on the PayPal widget, and I hope that combined total is publicized shortly - and then publicized on a regular basis. The PayPal widget for the Fox project (not the one that was for ARISSat-1 and Fox) has increased by 1/3 in the past 24 hours since the announcement of the NASA decision.
On the other hand FOX is NOW we have a means of getting into space,which is the biggest hurdle, so it needs funding NOW to get completed and on that ride.
I agree 100%. I've already made a couple of contributions, and I'm hoping AMSAT is able to deliver Fox-1 to NASA for that launch. :-)
Projects like FUNcube and KiwiSAT have also done a good job of publicizing what they have been doing and their needs - financial or otherwise. I've contributed to them, and - in the case of KiwiSAT - made multiple contributions. I'm all for not putting all of our eggs in one basket. More satellites would be a good thing.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (10)
-
Andy Kellner -
Dave Guimont -
Dee -
i8cvs -
JoAnne Maenpaa -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Rafael Valdez G. -
Stefan Wagener -
Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL -
WA6FWF