Re: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things like this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently.
We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring ordinary" stuff that should be going on - in the Journal.
Exactly! A forensic audit may not be simple but I would hope that someone within AMSAT could produce a list of physical assets which could be checked to make sure they are still in AMSAT’s control and inventory. Does a list of assets exist?
It doesn’t matter who wins this election. The dark cloud over AMSAT will remain until the members and donors are satisfied that their is no malfeasance that has, or is, taking place within AMSAT. All the members and donors can see the smoke and there’s no smoke unless there’s a fire.
It saddens me that no legacy BoD member or Officer running against me will step-up and join me in requesting that a third-party audit AMSAT. Like I said, there wouldn’t be any smoke if there wasn’t a fire. This leads many members to wonder what else is being hidden. There may well be nothing being hidden but enough has been uncovered that a jury of average people would not be convinced. There’s a simple way to make the bad thoughts that members and donors have. Allow a full audit and inventory of AMSAT’s finances and inventory.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com
Jeff,
i'll just say this and end here, because it's getting really old and this feels like tail chasing at this point with no end. In addition, it's becoming unproductive and irritating for everyone on the list and needs to stop, so i'm going to do my part. The bottom line is, it DOES matter who wins this next AMSAT election, if you still want AMSAT to take their stack forward, get people to work together and preserve the organizations relationships.
I don't think anyone wants a continuation of the last two years of --bb back and forth-ing, he-said-she-said, and legal demands and nonsense... i got involved with all this on the -bb last month, out of sheer frustration with what I was hearing team-awesome spout off about AMSAT. Because, that is not the AMSAT I know. I still maintain relationships with many members, have regular communications about all sorts of random things, etc... with guys all over the US. and one observation I have made is that not one... Not a single one of the names that I know, that ever built anything for AMSAT, have spoken up about any of this stuff on the-bb or expressed the least bit of interest in any of it. They still send technical emails, send stuff out on the development lists, etc... shoot me text messages on and off... but, literally Nothing about any of this. That speaks volumes to me personally.
All this talk about smoke and fires, clouds and demands, is to me, just a lot of smoke and mirrors.
KJ4JIO, clear.
Joseph Armbruster
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 8:14 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things
like this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently.
We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring ordinary"
stuff that should be going on - in the Journal.
Exactly! A forensic audit may not be simple but I would hope that someone within AMSAT could produce a list of physical assets which could be checked to make sure they are still in AMSAT’s control and inventory. Does a list of assets exist?
It doesn’t matter who wins this election. The dark cloud over AMSAT will remain until the members and donors are satisfied that their is no malfeasance that has, or is, taking place within AMSAT. All the members and donors can see the smoke and there’s no smoke unless there’s a fire.
It saddens me that no legacy BoD member or Officer running against me will step-up and join me in requesting that a third-party audit AMSAT. Like I said, there wouldn’t be any smoke if there wasn’t a fire. This leads many members to wonder what else is being hidden. There may well be nothing being hidden but enough has been uncovered that a jury of average people would not be convinced. There’s a simple way to make the bad thoughts that members and donors have. Allow a full audit and inventory of AMSAT’s finances and inventory.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Joe, It doesn't irritate me one bit. Like many other Members, I've hadthis BB going to Spam for several weeks. I check it out once a weekjust to see if the BB still exists. It's rare that I actually read anything.I no longer watch TV News because of the Political chaos and non-stopsniping and this BB has fallen into the same abyss. Not worth my timeor blood pressure. 73, Bob K8BL
On Sunday, August 9, 2020, 09:35:40 PM EDT, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Jeff,
i'll just say this and end here, because it's getting really old and this feels like tail chasing at this point with no end. In addition, it's becoming unproductive and irritating for everyone on the list and needs to stop, so i'm going to do my part. The bottom line is, it DOES matter who wins this next AMSAT election, if you still want AMSAT to take their stack forward, get people to work together and preserve the organizations relationships.
I don't think anyone wants a continuation of the last two years of --bb back and forth-ing, he-said-she-said, and legal demands and nonsense... i got involved with all this on the -bb last month, out of sheer frustration with what I was hearing team-awesome spout off about AMSAT. Because, that is not the AMSAT I know. I still maintain relationships with many members, have regular communications about all sorts of random things, etc... with guys all over the US. and one observation I have made is that not one... Not a single one of the names that I know, that ever built anything for AMSAT, have spoken up about any of this stuff on the-bb or expressed the least bit of interest in any of it. They still send technical emails, send stuff out on the development lists, etc... shoot me text messages on and off... but, literally Nothing about any of this. That speaks volumes to me personally.
All this talk about smoke and fires, clouds and demands, is to me, just a lot of smoke and mirrors.
KJ4JIO, clear.
Joseph Armbruster
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 8:14 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things
like this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently.
We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring ordinary"
stuff that should be going on - in the Journal.
Exactly! A forensic audit may not be simple but I would hope that someone within AMSAT could produce a list of physical assets which could be checked to make sure they are still in AMSAT’s control and inventory. Does a list of assets exist?
It doesn’t matter who wins this election. The dark cloud over AMSAT will remain until the members and donors are satisfied that their is no malfeasance that has, or is, taking place within AMSAT. All the members and donors can see the smoke and there’s no smoke unless there’s a fire.
It saddens me that no legacy BoD member or Officer running against me will step-up and join me in requesting that a third-party audit AMSAT. Like I said, there wouldn’t be any smoke if there wasn’t a fire. This leads many members to wonder what else is being hidden. There may well be nothing being hidden but enough has been uncovered that a jury of average people would not be convinced. There’s a simple way to make the bad thoughts that members and donors have. Allow a full audit and inventory of AMSAT’s finances and inventory.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Remember those little boxy things that are whipping around the world that we enjoy and have fun, learn, develop expertise, and just chat with like people. Please knock off the BS! 73 Bob W7LRD
On 08/09/2020 5:07 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things like this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently.
We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring ordinary" stuff that should be going on - in the Journal.
Exactly! A forensic audit may not be simple but I would hope that someone within AMSAT could produce a list of physical assets which could be checked to make sure they are still in AMSAT’s control and inventory. Does a list of assets exist?
It doesn’t matter who wins this election. The dark cloud over AMSAT will remain until the members and donors are satisfied that their is no malfeasance that has, or is, taking place within AMSAT. All the members and donors can see the smoke and there’s no smoke unless there’s a fire.
It saddens me that no legacy BoD member or Officer running against me will step-up and join me in requesting that a third-party audit AMSAT. Like I said, there wouldn’t be any smoke if there wasn’t a fire. This leads many members to wonder what else is being hidden. There may well be nothing being hidden but enough has been uncovered that a jury of average people would not be convinced. There’s a simple way to make the bad thoughts that members and donors have. Allow a full audit and inventory of AMSAT’s finances and inventory.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Each thread has a topic, and members are not incapable of intentionally ignoring threads by looking at the subject line.
Remember those little boxy things that are whipping around the world that
we enjoy and have fun, learn, develop expertise, and just chat with like people. Please knock off the BS! 73 Bob W7LRD
Bob and Joseph, as a dues-pyaing AMSAT member, I'm sorry to inconvenience you with my own '...BS,' however, please understand that --to me-- these "...the small things are complicated' or "...watch the birdie" misdirections, and the "...everyone is tired of it, so please knock it off!" comments can serve to undermine your standing as Trusted Leadership in the eyes of Interested Members by making it look as if the board and leadership really do have something to hide.
If this is not the correct venue, then what is?
Put another way, why even respond to these questions in the Email Threads?
Also, Is wishing people would just stop griping and just enjoy the view really a successful strategy?
Seeing these comments as you both speak from a position of leadership makes me worry that AMSAT may be lost in the woods, and not on an intentional path. At the moment, I can see NO better forum than an email list to express these concerns, and to suggest that this should not happen is... galling. Fundamentally, I see your comment as deprecating and dismissive of Members in Good Standing who are using the only venue apparently available with any significant level of accountability to air their concerns.
There have been some important and simple questions asked: Why hasn't the board of an organization to which members pay dues address some valid questions and show that they are acting in good faith, let alone convene in order to do so? What was really behind the irregular use of funds paid to a law firm, and why was it handled that way? Your membership is smart enough to gain their Ham Radio license, and information is shared more broadly and easily than ever before, so it should be no surprise that a "...you just would not understand, so trust us" response --or silence-- may not have the desired effect.
Do you understand that it is some of your comments, combined with [in-]actions --and not the legitimate questions being raised-- which undermine the confidence we have in the board and leadership? At this point, given the proven and highly irregular actions of the board '... we are making progress,' from the board may not be a sufficient answer to keep the Rabble at a low din.
How about we turn this conversation to 'real' subject matter, then? AMSAT is still the preeminent forum within the US to provide new Amateur Radio Satellites. From my chair, however, given how seemingly few AMSAT OSCAR satellites are work-able in-orbit, I'd say we are not as successful in that effort as we have been in the past, and I would like to know why. Can leadership answer these questions for me: - Has a committee been convened to understand what happened with Husky Sat? - What is the full project plan, set of milestones, and real status of GOLF-TEE? - Where does AMSAT stand WRT launch strategies, and can we expect to see more operational FM and Transponder birds any time soon? - How is AMSAT now involved in helping schools get more satellites into the sky, and how is that effort changing? - What resources does AMSAT require to make these things happen? - We are geeks and enthusiasts and funders, and we want to know: how we can help?
Respectfully,
Chris Hoffman N6QR Amsat member # *54687432*
(Please email me directly if you would like my cell phone number)
On 08/09/2020 5:07 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org
wrote:
If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things
like this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently.
We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring
ordinary" stuff that should be going on - in the Journal.
Exactly! A forensic audit may not be simple but I would hope that
someone within AMSAT could produce a list of physical assets which could be checked to make sure they are still in AMSAT’s control and inventory. Does a list of assets exist?
It doesn’t matter who wins this election. The dark cloud over AMSAT will
remain until the members and donors are satisfied that their is no malfeasance that has, or is, taking place within AMSAT. All the members and donors can see the smoke and there’s no smoke unless there’s a fire.
It saddens me that no legacy BoD member or Officer running against me
will step-up and join me in requesting that a third-party audit AMSAT. Like I said, there wouldn’t be any smoke if there wasn’t a fire. This leads many members to wonder what else is being hidden. There may well be nothing being hidden but enough has been uncovered that a jury of average people would not be convinced. There’s a simple way to make the bad thoughts that members and donors have. Allow a full audit and inventory of AMSAT’s finances and inventory.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (5)
-
73 Bob W7LRD -
Bob Liddy (K8BL) -
Chris Hoffman -
Jeff Johns -
Joseph Armbruster