Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list.
Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them, after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired, only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's official publications to carry their opinions.
In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or at least the secretary who was running the election would have read them.
But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin wa7fwf@gmail.com wrote:
Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list if AMSAT did not provide it?
Kevin
On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Hello All,
In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all received as members.
https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Le...
I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
"AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to Open Research Institute."
Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a seriousbreech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost? was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say "out in the wind"?
Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something that was procured online?
AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in the future.
I look forward to an answer
73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bruce, So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are allowed to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather than them doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you were in possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk mailing center when you authored the mailer?
Kevin WA7FWF #19623
On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list.
Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them, after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired, only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's official publications to carry their opinions.
In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or at least the secretary who was running the election would have read them.
But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf@gmail.com mailto:wa7fwf@gmail.com> wrote:
Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list if AMSAT did not provide it? Kevin On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it. Thanks Bruce On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org>> wrote: Hello All, In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all received as members. https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before. "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to Open Research Institute." Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost? was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say "out in the wind"? Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something that was procured online? AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in the future. I look forward to an answer 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623 _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Kevin,
No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote the content .
So, why was I involved at all ?
I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that is for other people to judge. However, if you count the Open Source movement in software; the campaign for the elimination of the Morse code requirement for Amateur Radio licenses, which among other things I got on the front page of the New York Times, above the fold; My work to help elect a new ARRL board to end the confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my global appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least 50000 television and Internet airplays;
If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to tell you how to run a campaign.
As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put out under my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the candidates chose to use it as their main campaign statement. This was very flattering and entirely their own choice.
As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their election, and it is my right to participate in AMSAT's.
Thanks
Bruce K6BP
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin wa7fwf@gmail.com wrote:
Bruce, So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are allowed to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather than them doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you were in possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk mailing center when you authored the mailer?
Kevin WA7FWF #19623
On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list.
Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them, after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired, only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's official publications to carry their opinions.
In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or at least the secretary who was running the election would have read them.
But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin wa7fwf@gmail.com wrote:
Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list if AMSAT did not provide it?
Kevin
On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Hello All,
In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all received as members.
https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Le...
I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
"AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to Open Research Institute."
Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a seriousbreech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost? was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say "out in the wind"?
Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something that was procured online?
AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in the future.
I look forward to an answer
73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Well Bruce,
Something doesn't jive here, " I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote the content " then it seems the candidate would have been the person that was dealing with the bulk mailer and would have had their return address listed and it would not have been your home address on it.
Guess it's time to pick a different bulk mailer.
Kevin WA7FWF #19623
On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
Kevin,
No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote the content .
So, why was I involved at all ?
I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that is for other people to judge. However, if you count the Open Source movement in software; the campaign for the elimination of the Morse code requirement for Amateur Radio licenses, which among other things I got on the front page of the New York Times, above the fold; My work to help elect a new ARRL board to end the confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my global appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least 50000 television and Internet airplays;
If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to tell you how to run a campaign.
As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put out under my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the candidates chose to use it as their main campaign statement. This was very flattering and entirely their own choice.
As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their election, and it is my right to participate in AMSAT's.
Thanks
Bruce K6BP
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin <wa7fwf@gmail.com mailto:wa7fwf@gmail.com> wrote:
Bruce, So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are allowed to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather than them doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you were in possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk mailing center when you authored the mailer? Kevin WA7FWF #19623 On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list. Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them, after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired, only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's official publications to carry their opinions. In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or at least the secretary who was running the election would have read them. But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the organization with not face quite this uphill a battle. Thanks Bruce On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf@gmail.com <mailto:wa7fwf@gmail.com>> wrote: Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list if AMSAT did not provide it? Kevin On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it. Thanks Bruce On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org>> wrote: Hello All, In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all received as members. https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before. "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to Open Research Institute." Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost? was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say "out in the wind"? Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something that was procured online? AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in the future. I look forward to an answer 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623 _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The candidate felt that since I wrote the letter, that the return address should be mine. I didn't ask for it, I especially did not ask for my home address, which is not in the call book, to be used. As it happens, I found out about one silent key member in the return mail, which I passed on and promptly forgot. I work for lawyers all day in my consulting business, and thus I read the rules, I understand the rules, I follow the rules. These are not, by the way, Robert's Rules of Order. These are things like what a director is responsible for, and how to run an election. It really bothers me that the incumbents didn't know those rules.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 10:11 PM Kevin wa7fwf@gmail.com wrote:
Well Bruce,
Something doesn't jive here, " I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote the content " then it seems the candidate would have been the person that was dealing with the bulk mailer and would have had their return address listed and it would not have been your home address on it.
Guess it's time to pick a different bulk mailer.
Kevin WA7FWF #19623
On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
Kevin,
No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote the content .
So, why was I involved at all ?
I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that is for other people to judge. However, if you count the Open Source movement in software; the campaign for the elimination of the Morse code requirement for Amateur Radio licenses, which among other things I got on the front page of the New York Times, above the fold; My work to help elect a new ARRL board to end the confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my global appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least 50000 television and Internet airplays;
If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to tell you how to run a campaign.
As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put out under my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the candidates chose to use it as their main campaign statement. This was very flattering and entirely their own choice.
As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their election, and it is my right to participate in AMSAT's.
Thanks
Bruce K6BP
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin wa7fwf@gmail.com wrote:
Bruce, So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are allowed to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather than them doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you were in possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk mailing center when you authored the mailer?
Kevin WA7FWF #19623
On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list.
Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them, after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired, only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's official publications to carry their opinions.
In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or at least the secretary who was running the election would have read them.
But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin wa7fwf@gmail.com wrote:
Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list if AMSAT did not provide it?
Kevin
On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Hello All,
In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all received as members.
https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Le...
I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
"AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to Open Research Institute."
Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like aserious breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost? was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say "out in the wind"?
Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something that was procured online?
AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in the future.
I look forward to an answer
73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bruce & Michelle, I have no issue with Bruce writing it, I have no issue with a candidate using the mailing list, the issue I have is if ORI/Bruce was mailing it for them and ORI/Bruce having the list. Had a candidate used the list and a candidate mailed it under their name and then ORI reimbursed them later for their costs later I would have no issue with that either.
Since we are all keen about following the rules, the bylaws say "Duly nominated and eligible candidates shall be afforded equal opportunity to circulate statements of their qualifications and positions to the Members through the corporation’s publications and shall have use of the corporation’s mailing lists for election-related purposes at no cost to the corporation."
It does not say the candidates representatives or other organizations that the candidate may belong to can have access to the list.
AMSAT says they did not give the data to ORI, which I believe and you have confirmed that it was indeed you, yet it appeared as a ORI/Bruce mailing, If it was mailed through ORI's bulk mailer or ORI picked up the cost then I would say it was treated as ORI business, and ORI has no business having the that list, *That* is improper.
Michelle, you are saying now that you were the only one that was in control of the list and the only one that dealt with the printer, that is good.
Although I'm still not clear why no one running wanted their return address on the mailing, a quick lookup on QRZ has everyone's address, by using the return address you did you created the appearance of a 3rd party having the mailing list and thus created this problem, using time/cost as an excuse is not very good, anyone running for office could have used their address and then one line added to the doc stating that the mailing represented all candidates and avoided all of this.
If it was made clear later that this was not an ORI mailing with ORI in control of the list I did not see it, was this sent to the BB or where can I find this correction posted?
One has to maintain a chain of control of private data, I did not know if this was done. I do not know if the bulk mailer you used still has the AMSAT mailing list on file, or if it was deleted once done, and if still on file who has access to it?
I know this may look like I'm splitting hairs here but I hope you agree that any org should always be clear and capable of proving that they have handled data responsibly.
Kevin WA7FWF #19623
On 7/12/2020 10:30 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
The candidate felt that since I wrote the letter, that the return address should be mine. I didn't ask for it, I especially did not ask for my home address, which is not in the call book, to be used. As it happens, I found out about one silent key member in the return mail, which I passed on and promptly forgot. I work for lawyers all day in my consulting business, and thus I read the rules, I understand the rules, I follow the rules. These are not, by the way, Robert's Rules of Order. These are things like what a director is responsible for, and how to run an election. It really bothers me that the incumbents didn't know those rules.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 10:11 PM Kevin <wa7fwf@gmail.com mailto:wa7fwf@gmail.com> wrote:
Well Bruce, Something doesn't jive here, " I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote the content " then it seems the candidate would have been the person that was dealing with the bulk mailer and would have had their return address listed and it would not have been your home address on it. Guess it's time to pick a different bulk mailer. Kevin WA7FWF #19623 On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:Kevin, No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote the content . So, why was I involved at all ? I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that is for other people to judge. However, if you count the Open Source movement in software; the campaign for the elimination of the Morse code requirement for Amateur Radio licenses, which among other things I got on the front page of the New York Times, above the fold; My work to help elect a new ARRL board to end the confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my global appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least 50000 television and Internet airplays; If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to tell you how to run a campaign. As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put out under my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the candidates chose to use it as their main campaign statement. This was very flattering and entirely their own choice. As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their election, and it is my right to participate in AMSAT's. Thanks Bruce K6BP On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin <wa7fwf@gmail.com <mailto:wa7fwf@gmail.com>> wrote: Bruce, So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are allowed to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather than them doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you were in possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk mailing center when you authored the mailer? Kevin WA7FWF #19623 On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list. Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them, after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired, only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's official publications to carry their opinions. In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or at least the secretary who was running the election would have read them. But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the organization with not face quite this uphill a battle. Thanks Bruce On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf@gmail.com <mailto:wa7fwf@gmail.com>> wrote: Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list if AMSAT did not provide it? Kevin On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it. Thanks Bruce On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org>> wrote: Hello All, In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all received as members. https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before. "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to Open Research Institute." Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost? was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say "out in the wind"? Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something that was procured online? AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in the future. I look forward to an answer 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623 _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Kevin you'll notice a whole lot of this doublespeak when dealing with Director Thompson and their shills. "We didn't break the rules, you just don't understand the rules". "The member list wasn't compromised, you just don't understand what compromised means."
It's utterly ridiculous to think the person who authored the cover letter of a mailer, and served as the "mailed from" address to an entire list of people didn't first see that list. To believe otherwise is to fully commit to an endless present in which the party is always right.
Dave, KG5CCI
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 8:14 AM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
The candidate felt that since I wrote the letter, that the return address should be mine. I didn't ask for it, I especially did not ask for my home address, which is not in the call book, to be used. As it happens, I found out about one silent key member in the return mail, which I passed on and promptly forgot. I work for lawyers all day in my consulting business, and thus I read the rules, I understand the rules, I follow the rules. These are not, by the way, Robert's Rules of Order. These are things like what a director is responsible for, and how to run an election. It really bothers me that the incumbents didn't know those rules.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 10:11 PM Kevin wa7fwf@gmail.com wrote:
Well Bruce,
Something doesn't jive here, " I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote the content " then it seems the candidate would have been the person
that
was dealing with the bulk mailer and would have had their return address listed and it would not have been your home address on it.
Guess it's time to pick a different bulk mailer.
Kevin WA7FWF #19623
On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
Kevin,
No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote the content .
So, why was I involved at all ?
I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that is for other people to judge. However, if you count the Open Source movement in software; the campaign for the elimination of the Morse code requirement for Amateur Radio licenses, which among other things I got on the front page of the New York Times, above the fold; My work to help elect a new ARRL board to end the confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my global appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least
50000
television and Internet airplays;
If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to tell you how to run a campaign.
As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put out under my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the candidates chose to use it as their main campaign statement. This was very flattering and entirely their own choice.
As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their election, and it is my right to participate in AMSAT's.
Thanks
Bruce K6BP
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin wa7fwf@gmail.com wrote:
Bruce, So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are
allowed
to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather than them doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you were in possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk mailing center when you authored the mailer?
Kevin WA7FWF #19623
On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list.
Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell
them,
after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired, only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from
the
candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's official publications to carry their opinions.
In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or at least the secretary who was running the election would have read
them.
But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin wa7fwf@gmail.com wrote:
Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list if AMSAT did not provide it?
Kevin
On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under
"Open
Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake
and
I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in
which I
introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company
and
did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone
responsible
who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Hello All,
In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we
all
received as members.
https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Le...
I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
"AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to Open Research Institute."
Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like aserious breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost? was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say "out in the wind"?
Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something that was procured online?
AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in the future.
I look forward to an answer
73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
OK, one of these two statements is a lie, which one is it?
On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
Kevin,
No, I never saw the mailing list .*I didn't do the mailing* . I only wrote the content .
Bruce K6BP
"Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy*I've mailed* to everyone one of you".
http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
And I agree this is getting old and needs to be pulled off here and moved over to AMSAT to get to the bottom of this and take action.
Kevin WA7FWF 19623
"I've mailed" does not mean I saw the address list or, for that matter, that I licked the stamps with my own tongue. We already told you that we used a company, and Michelle dealt with the company. I doubt that any letter mailed to you by a politician was physically mailed by them. It's still a letter from them.
It seems at this point that you are grasping at straws.
Thanks
Bruce
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:57 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
OK, one of these two statements is a lie, which one is it?
On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
Kevin,
No, I never saw the mailing list .*I didn't do the mailing* . I only wrote the content .
Bruce K6BP
"Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy*I've mailed* to everyone one of you".
http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
And I agree this is getting old and needs to be pulled off here and moved over to AMSAT to get to the bottom of this and take action.
Kevin WA7FWF 19623
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (3)
-
Bruce Perens -
David Swanson -
Kevin