Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
For the good of AMSAT, to ensure our enjoyment of future amateur satellites, and for the general good of amateur radio:
Thompson and Stoddard need to resign. Now.
Clint Bradford
For the good of the AMSAT-BB's transparency that ensures postsare from actual Amateurs and not Spam.... Clint Bradford's Amateur Call is K6LCS 73, Bob K8BL On Friday, July 10, 2020, 08:29:38 PM EDT, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
For the good of AMSAT, to ensure our enjoyment of future amateur satellites, and for the general good of amateur radio:
Thompson and Stoddard need to resign. Now.
Clint Bradford
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
We all need to remember that this is a hobby, and hobbies are there to enjoy and have fun. Lets get over this crap and back to having fun.
I have been off the air for 8 months now, I really didn't like coming down off my tower today to see all of the emails about this.
Stephen Nipper N7DJX
On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 6:30 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
For the good of AMSAT, to ensure our enjoyment of future amateur satellites, and for the general good of amateur radio:
Thompson and Stoddard need to resign. Now.
Clint Bradford
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On July 10, 2020 8:19:19 PM CDT, "H. Stephen Nipper via AMSAT-BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
We all need to remember that this is a hobby, and hobbies are there to enjoy and have fun. Lets get over this crap and back to having fun.
I have been off the air for 8 months now, I really didn't like coming down off my tower today to see all of the emails about this.
Amen. Let's get this off the list and back to playing with radio.
--- Zach N0ZGO
I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of improper behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with concern, but also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred in the 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution, because the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a holiday week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they believed the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have brought them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the most charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious errors in judgement by the accusers.
I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these unwarranted accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so grievously misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused AMSAT. It would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken trust with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified candidates to replace them without their baggage.
Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or been endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
Alan Biddle WA4SCA Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have been made.
This failed.
Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did along the way.
This worked.
Patrick and I are in the clear.
The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
They claim the entire board knew about it.
There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can solve.
Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an election, is simply the right thing to do.
I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily resolved reasons.
Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.
If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to return the same people to their jobs.
I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates that will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward. Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of improper behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with concern, but also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred in the 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution, because the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a holiday week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they believed the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have brought them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the most charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious errors in judgement by the accusers.
I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these unwarranted accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so grievously misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused AMSAT. It would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken trust with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified candidates to replace them without their baggage.
Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or been endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
Alan Biddle WA4SCA Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand why the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every expenditure).
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have been made.
This failed.
Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did along the way.
This worked.
Patrick and I are in the clear.
The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
They claim the entire board knew about it.
There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can solve.
Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an election, is simply the right thing to do.
I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily resolved reasons.
Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.
If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to return the same people to their jobs.
I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates that will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward. Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of improper behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with concern,
but
also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred in
the
30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
because
the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
holiday
week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
believed
the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have brought them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the most charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious errors in judgement by the accusers.
I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these unwarranted accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
grievously
misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused AMSAT.
It
would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken trust with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified candidates to replace them without their baggage.
Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or been endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
Alan Biddle WA4SCA Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be, latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was not allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past the limit.
Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when historically legal expenses are often zero.
Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory consulting and review.
Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs authorization.
The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and improper use of member money.
Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an unethical use of money.
The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or recurring category, but they did not.
I understand you may discount my opinion.
That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after we were supposed to start our terms.
She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent and completely uncooperative, until recently.
The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many other things simply don't work well.
I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein rich@ourowndomain.com wrote:
Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand why the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every expenditure).
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have been made.
This failed.
Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did along the way.
This worked.
Patrick and I are in the clear.
The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
They claim the entire board knew about it.
There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can solve.
Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an election, is simply the right thing to do.
I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily resolved reasons.
Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.
If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to return the same people to their jobs.
I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates that will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward. Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of improper behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with concern,
but
also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred in
the
30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
because
the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
holiday
week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
believed
the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have brought them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
most
charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious errors in judgement by the accusers.
I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these unwarranted accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
grievously
misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused AMSAT.
It
would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken trust with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified candidates to replace them without their baggage.
Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or been endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
Alan Biddle WA4SCA Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thanks. I think we're getting closer :)
It sounds like the "unauthorized expenses" were incurred before you and Patrick were on the board. And the belief that they were unauthorized is based solely on reading the AMSAT board meeting minutes? So if those expenses were authorized through some day-to-day operational procedure, then they wouldn't have shown up in the board meeting minutes?
Note - I'm not defending the actions, just trying to understand if they were outside of the bylaws. So far, there isn't any direct evidence that they were - unless I'm misunderstanding something.
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:26 PM Michelle Thompson < mountain.michelle@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be, latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was not allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past the limit.
Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when historically legal expenses are often zero.
Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory consulting and review.
Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs authorization.
The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and improper use of member money.
Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an unethical use of money.
The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or recurring category, but they did not.
I understand you may discount my opinion.
That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after we were supposed to start our terms.
She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent and completely uncooperative, until recently.
The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many other things simply don't work well.
I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein rich@ourowndomain.com wrote:
Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand why the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every expenditure).
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have been made.
This failed.
Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did along the way.
This worked.
Patrick and I are in the clear.
The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
They claim the entire board knew about it.
There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can solve.
Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an election, is simply the right thing to do.
I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily resolved reasons.
Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.
If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to return the same people to their jobs.
I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates that will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward. Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of improper behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
concern, but
also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
in the
30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
because
the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
holiday
week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
believed
the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have brought them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
most
charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious errors in judgement by the accusers.
I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
unwarranted
accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
grievously
misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
AMSAT. It
would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
trust
with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified candidates to replace them without their baggage.
Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or been endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
Alan Biddle WA4SCA Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I understand and appreciate your questions and interest. I don't take offense at any of the questions. I know it's not a fun subject, not very pleasant, and many people do not care or find the entire thing annoying. Yes, it's annoying.
The minutes are the record of board activity.
If an expense is not in the record, and it's not an ordinary expense, it is unauthorized. This could have been easy to rectify.
This wasn't printer cartridges or annual travel or catering for an annual dinner. It was not handled like the hiring of FD Associates, the consulting firm, which was providing things that help the mission of the organization. It was the hiring of a Manhattan law firm, whose work products were, among other things, advice on how to slow down or obstruct access to records. That does not help the mission of the organization.
These were not ordinary business expenses. The responsibility of oversight lies with the Directors. It's our job to ask questions about things like this. We are just doing our jobs.
Board members that got together and did this before we were elected completely refused to talk about it and refused to meet to resolve it. Criticism is not an existential threat. Nuking people from orbit with lawyers because you don't like their complaints creates very bad karma.
One could take an extremely broad view of legal expenses and accept any legal expenditure as ok. We don't think that view serves any organization very well, and it is not how AMSAT handled other expenses, like FD Associates. Therefore we spoke up.
If Patrick and I were completely wrong about this, then the legal letter we commissioned would have had no effect. It would have been answered differently.
Once confronted with a letter summarizing why AMSAT was in the wrong, and asking for specific relief citing specific case law, Joe Spier resigned. There was a phone conference between the law firms and the AMSAT lawyer backed down and agreed to all the contents of the letter. Clayton Coleman took over as President and addressed the access to records within, I believe, a week. He acknowledged the problem and we got to work on several overdue items. Things were looking very good, we were moving forward. Clayton does not deserve calls for his resignation, hate mail, or anything like that. He is President during a very difficult time, in several ways. I told him he had my support.
If we had gotten an acknowledgement that this was a bad decision, and accounted for it and reconciled internally, we would not have gone to the membership with the report. This is a problem that an apology could have fixed. The majority wanted an election instead.
If you (or anyone else) has any further questions, please feel free to call. I'm in the volunteer directory. Or, you can email me for my home phone.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:51 AM Rich Gopstein rich@ourowndomain.com wrote:
Thanks. I think we're getting closer :)
It sounds like the "unauthorized expenses" were incurred before you and Patrick were on the board. And the belief that they were unauthorized is based solely on reading the AMSAT board meeting minutes? So if those expenses were authorized through some day-to-day operational procedure, then they wouldn't have shown up in the board meeting minutes?
Note - I'm not defending the actions, just trying to understand if they were outside of the bylaws. So far, there isn't any direct evidence that they were - unless I'm misunderstanding something.
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:26 PM Michelle Thompson < mountain.michelle@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be, latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was not allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past the limit.
Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when historically legal expenses are often zero.
Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory consulting and review.
Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs authorization.
The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and improper use of member money.
Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an unethical use of money.
The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or recurring category, but they did not.
I understand you may discount my opinion.
That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after we were supposed to start our terms.
She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent and completely uncooperative, until recently.
The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many other things simply don't work well.
I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein rich@ourowndomain.com wrote:
Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand why the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every expenditure).
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have been made.
This failed.
Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did along the way.
This worked.
Patrick and I are in the clear.
The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
They claim the entire board knew about it.
There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can solve.
Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an election, is simply the right thing to do.
I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily resolved reasons.
Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.
If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to return the same people to their jobs.
I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates that will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward. Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of improper behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
concern, but
also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
in the
30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
because
the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
holiday
week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
believed
the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have brought them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
were
either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
most
charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
egregious
errors in judgement by the accusers.
I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
unwarranted
accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
grievously
misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
AMSAT. It
would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
trust
with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent
a
vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified candidates to replace them without their baggage.
Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
or
been endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
Alan Biddle WA4SCA Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
BTW folks, the BOD works for YOU, the GM. They should answer any and all questions openly, freely and honestly. It seems that the BOD is in stasis. Amsat is unable to move forward to meet its mission statement.
Now I have read that no Amsat money was used to employ the legal firm. I assume paperwork can be produced that will back up that statement.
--- Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side 73 de W3AB/GEO
You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
I'm not an AMSAT member so I have no dog in this fight. Just based on what I've read here - unauthorized expenses are not approved by the membership and having been President of a volunteer organization that experienced unauthorized expenses, I can tell you that spending money that is not yours and you are not authorized to spend is called EMBESSELMENT!!! It is illegal and should result in the removal of the parties involved and probably should require criminal charges to be pressed against them as well!
At the very least, this should be thoroughly investigated by a 3rd party and appropriate action taken!!
Just because you don't like the message being put out by those concerned about this situation, doesn't mean the situation should be ignored and covered up. Get over it and let the truth be revealed - ALL OF IT!!
DON'T re-elect parties that are operating illegally and DON'T throw out the parties that are reporting it, regardless of whether you agree or not. Let the facts speak for themselves!!!
7 3 and good luck!!
Jeff Moore -- KE7ACY CN94
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 2:53 PM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
BTW folks, the BOD works for YOU, the GM. They should answer any and all questions openly, freely and honestly. It seems that the BOD is in stasis. Amsat is unable to move forward to meet its mission statement.
Now I have read that no Amsat money was used to employ the legal firm. I assume paperwork can be produced that will back up that statement.
Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side 73 de W3AB/GEO
You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thanks. That helps. I appreciate your willingness to answer my questions.
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 4:50 PM Michelle Thompson < mountain.michelle@gmail.com> wrote:
I understand and appreciate your questions and interest. I don't take offense at any of the questions. I know it's not a fun subject, not very pleasant, and many people do not care or find the entire thing annoying. Yes, it's annoying.
The minutes are the record of board activity.
If an expense is not in the record, and it's not an ordinary expense, it is unauthorized. This could have been easy to rectify.
This wasn't printer cartridges or annual travel or catering for an annual dinner. It was not handled like the hiring of FD Associates, the consulting firm, which was providing things that help the mission of the organization. It was the hiring of a Manhattan law firm, whose work products were, among other things, advice on how to slow down or obstruct access to records. That does not help the mission of the organization.
These were not ordinary business expenses. The responsibility of oversight lies with the Directors. It's our job to ask questions about things like this. We are just doing our jobs.
Board members that got together and did this before we were elected completely refused to talk about it and refused to meet to resolve it. Criticism is not an existential threat. Nuking people from orbit with lawyers because you don't like their complaints creates very bad karma.
One could take an extremely broad view of legal expenses and accept any legal expenditure as ok. We don't think that view serves any organization very well, and it is not how AMSAT handled other expenses, like FD Associates. Therefore we spoke up.
If Patrick and I were completely wrong about this, then the legal letter we commissioned would have had no effect. It would have been answered differently.
Once confronted with a letter summarizing why AMSAT was in the wrong, and asking for specific relief citing specific case law, Joe Spier resigned. There was a phone conference between the law firms and the AMSAT lawyer backed down and agreed to all the contents of the letter. Clayton Coleman took over as President and addressed the access to records within, I believe, a week. He acknowledged the problem and we got to work on several overdue items. Things were looking very good, we were moving forward. Clayton does not deserve calls for his resignation, hate mail, or anything like that. He is President during a very difficult time, in several ways. I told him he had my support.
If we had gotten an acknowledgement that this was a bad decision, and accounted for it and reconciled internally, we would not have gone to the membership with the report. This is a problem that an apology could have fixed. The majority wanted an election instead.
If you (or anyone else) has any further questions, please feel free to call. I'm in the volunteer directory. Or, you can email me for my home phone.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:51 AM Rich Gopstein rich@ourowndomain.com wrote:
Thanks. I think we're getting closer :)
It sounds like the "unauthorized expenses" were incurred before you and Patrick were on the board. And the belief that they were unauthorized is based solely on reading the AMSAT board meeting minutes? So if those expenses were authorized through some day-to-day operational procedure, then they wouldn't have shown up in the board meeting minutes?
Note - I'm not defending the actions, just trying to understand if they were outside of the bylaws. So far, there isn't any direct evidence that they were - unless I'm misunderstanding something.
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:26 PM Michelle Thompson < mountain.michelle@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be, latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was not allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past the limit.
Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when historically legal expenses are often zero.
Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory consulting and review.
Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs authorization.
The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and improper use of member money.
Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an unethical use of money.
The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or recurring category, but they did not.
I understand you may discount my opinion.
That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after we were supposed to start our terms.
She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent and completely uncooperative, until recently.
The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many other things simply don't work well.
I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein rich@ourowndomain.com wrote:
Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand why the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every expenditure).
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have been made.
This failed.
Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did along the way.
This worked.
Patrick and I are in the clear.
The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
They claim the entire board knew about it.
There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can solve.
Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an election, is simply the right thing to do.
I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily resolved reasons.
Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.
If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to return the same people to their jobs.
I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates that will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward. Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of improper behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
concern, but
also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
in the
30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
because
the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
holiday
week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
believed
the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have brought them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
were
either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
most
charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
egregious
errors in judgement by the accusers.
I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
unwarranted
accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
grievously
misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
AMSAT. It
would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
trust
with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum
they
should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they
represent a
vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified candidates to replace them without their baggage.
Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
or
been endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
Alan Biddle WA4SCA Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Director Thompson,
You and Director Stoddard harassed and intimidated members of the board pre-2019 election. Fact. The pre-2019 Election board hired attorneys to deal with your intimidation and harassment. Fact. Every member of the pre-2019 Election board signed a letter, stating they were aware of the legal expenses. Fact. After you and Director Stoddard were elected to the board in 2019 you continued to harass and intimidate officers and board members of AMSAT. Fact.
No matter what type of spin you put on this, no matter how many times you repeat your lies, you and director Stoddard are in the wrong here, and should resign immediately.
Members of AMSAT that are reading this and wanting to know what they can do, it's simple. Do not vote for the candidates endorsed by Director Thompson and Director Stoddard in 2020. Call on Director Thompson and Director Stoddard publicly to resign. If they do not resign, do not return them to the board in 2021. With these simple steps AMSAT can return spending your membership dollars on keeping amateur radio in space, instead of defending against disgruntled former volunteers with bones to pick.
-Dave, KG5CCI
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:30 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be, latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was not allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past the limit.
Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when historically legal expenses are often zero.
Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory consulting and review.
Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs authorization.
The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and improper use of member money.
Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an unethical use of money.
The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or recurring category, but they did not.
I understand you may discount my opinion.
That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after we were supposed to start our terms.
She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent and completely uncooperative, until recently.
The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many other things simply don't work well.
I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein rich@ourowndomain.com wrote:
Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand why the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every expenditure).
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
have
been made.
This failed.
Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did along the way.
This worked.
Patrick and I are in the clear.
The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
They claim the entire board knew about it.
There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
we
joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
can
solve.
Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
an
election, is simply the right thing to do.
I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
have
to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily resolved reasons.
Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.
If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to return the same people to their jobs.
I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
that
will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward. Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org
wrote:
I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of improper behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
concern,
but
also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
in
the
30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
because
the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
holiday
week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
believed
the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have brought them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
were
either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
most
charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
egregious
errors in judgement by the accusers.
I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
unwarranted
accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
grievously
misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
AMSAT.
It
would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
trust
with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent
a
vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified candidates to replace them without their baggage.
Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
or
been endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
Alan Biddle WA4SCA Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Dave, I agree with you 100%, and also call for both to resign.
Kevin WA7FWF #19623
On 7/12/2020 12:03 PM, David Swanson via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Director Thompson,
You and Director Stoddard harassed and intimidated members of the board pre-2019 election. Fact. The pre-2019 Election board hired attorneys to deal with your intimidation and harassment. Fact. Every member of the pre-2019 Election board signed a letter, stating they were aware of the legal expenses. Fact. After you and Director Stoddard were elected to the board in 2019 you continued to harass and intimidate officers and board members of AMSAT. Fact.
No matter what type of spin you put on this, no matter how many times you repeat your lies, you and director Stoddard are in the wrong here, and should resign immediately.
Members of AMSAT that are reading this and wanting to know what they can do, it's simple. Do not vote for the candidates endorsed by Director Thompson and Director Stoddard in 2020. Call on Director Thompson and Director Stoddard publicly to resign. If they do not resign, do not return them to the board in 2021. With these simple steps AMSAT can return spending your membership dollars on keeping amateur radio in space, instead of defending against disgruntled former volunteers with bones to pick.
-Dave, KG5CCI
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:30 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be, latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was not allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past the limit.
Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when historically legal expenses are often zero.
Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory consulting and review.
Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs authorization.
The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and improper use of member money.
Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an unethical use of money.
The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or recurring category, but they did not.
I understand you may discount my opinion.
That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after we were supposed to start our terms.
She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent and completely uncooperative, until recently.
The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many other things simply don't work well.
I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein rich@ourowndomain.com wrote:
Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand why the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every expenditure).
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
have
been made.
This failed.
Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did along the way.
This worked.
Patrick and I are in the clear.
The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
They claim the entire board knew about it.
There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
we
joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
can
solve.
Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
an
election, is simply the right thing to do.
I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
have
to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily resolved reasons.
Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.
If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to return the same people to their jobs.
I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
that
will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward. Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org
wrote:
I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of improper behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
concern,
but
also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
in
the
30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
because
the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
holiday
week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
believed
the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have brought them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
were
either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
most
charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
egregious
errors in judgement by the accusers.
I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
unwarranted
accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
grievously
misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
AMSAT.
It
would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
trust
with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent
a
vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified candidates to replace them without their baggage.
Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
or
been endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
Alan Biddle WA4SCA Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
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Just because someone can't take public criticism, or be held accountable for his actions, that means that he's being "harassed". The officers and board prior to the election decided to place prior restrains on a member, and now we know, look for legal advise in order to retaliate and possibly remove said member from the organization. For what? Just to cuddle the seemingly fragile ego of a director/officer?
The membership sent a clear message last year, we want transparency and accountability. We expected regular updates from the new directors in regards to the current status of the organization. If that's harassment then I don't know what to say. Maybe is a 2020 thing.
We can't allow a group of people that think AMSAT is their private property to use our membership dues to retaliate against members and obstruct the responsibility of duly elected directors.
KF7R
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 12:22 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Director Thompson,
You and Director Stoddard harassed and intimidated members of the board pre-2019 election. Fact. The pre-2019 Election board hired attorneys to deal with your intimidation and harassment. Fact. Every member of the pre-2019 Election board signed a letter, stating they were aware of the legal expenses. Fact. After you and Director Stoddard were elected to the board in 2019 you continued to harass and intimidate officers and board members of AMSAT. Fact.
No matter what type of spin you put on this, no matter how many times you repeat your lies, you and director Stoddard are in the wrong here, and should resign immediately.
Members of AMSAT that are reading this and wanting to know what they can do, it's simple. Do not vote for the candidates endorsed by Director Thompson and Director Stoddard in 2020. Call on Director Thompson and Director Stoddard publicly to resign. If they do not resign, do not return them to the board in 2021. With these simple steps AMSAT can return spending your membership dollars on keeping amateur radio in space, instead of defending against disgruntled former volunteers with bones to pick.
-Dave, KG5CCI
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:30 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be, latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was not allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past the limit.
Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when historically legal expenses are often zero.
Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and
regulatory
consulting and review.
Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs authorization.
The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround,
the
false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and
then
attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and improper use of member money.
Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is
an
unethical use of money.
The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or recurring category, but they did not.
I understand you may discount my opinion.
That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after we were supposed to start our terms.
She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent and completely uncooperative, until recently.
The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many
other
things simply don't work well.
I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein rich@ourowndomain.com wrote:
Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand
why
the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you
would
expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every expenditure).
Rich KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
have
been made.
This failed.
Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what
we
did along the way.
This worked.
Patrick and I are in the clear.
The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
They claim the entire board knew about it.
There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
we
joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
can
solve.
Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
an
election, is simply the right thing to do.
I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were
announced.
Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of
unrepentantly
unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
have
to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily resolved reasons.
Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending
definitely
is.
If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will
vote
to return the same people to their jobs.
I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
that
will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward. Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big
difference.
Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org
wrote:
I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of improper behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
concern,
but
also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
in
the
30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
because
the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
holiday
week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
believed
the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have brought them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
were
either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
most
charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
egregious
errors in judgement by the accusers.
I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
unwarranted
accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
grievously
misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
AMSAT.
It
would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
trust
with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum
they
should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they
represent
a
vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified candidates to replace them without their baggage.
Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
or
been endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
Alan Biddle WA4SCA Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
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participants (12)
-
Alan -
Bob Liddy (K8BL) -
Clint Bradford -
David Swanson -
Fernando Ramirez -
GEO Badger -
H. Stephen Nipper -
Jeff Moore -
Kevin -
Michelle Thompson -
Rich Gopstein -
Zach Metzinger