Bit confused about what the radios can "see" and "decode"

Is the sweep window only 96 khz ?

Or is that the decode window ?

- Andrew - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark L. Hammond" marklhammond@gmail.com To: "Andrew Rich" vk4tec@tech-software.net; amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Need Advice for SDR choice

Check out:

http://www.funcubedongle.com/

Assuming you only need receive, of course...

Works great...just had a QSO on FO-29 using it for receive (thanks KB1RVT!).

73,

Mark N8MH

At 07:47 PM 1/3/2011 +1100, Andrew Rich wrote:

...

Hello

I need some advice. I would like to purchase a Software Defined Radio

I would like to be able to do

1. Around 50 MHz to 2.400 GHz
2. USB LSB CW FM WFM / RAW ?
3. I would like to be able to decode AX25 packet (ISS)

I also have another project of decoding Mode S aircraft signals.

I have Windows XP / MAC OS X / Linux OpenSUSE.

What are my decoding options for the SDR ?

I can build packages etc in LINUX

• Andrew VK4TEC -

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Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]

The only problem with the FCB is that they're currently very close to unobtainum. The batch that became available this morning (4AM at my current location) sold out in less than 1 minute (I didn't get one, in spite of typing as fast as I can, at exactly 20:00 UTC).

73, doug

...

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark L. Hammond"marklhammond@gmail.com To: "Andrew Rich"vk4tec@tech-software.net;amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Need Advice for SDR choice

...

Check out:

http://www.funcubedongle.com/

Assuming you only need receive, of course...

Works great...just had a QSO on FO-29 using it for receive (thanks KB1RVT!).

73,

Mark N8MH

At 07:47 PM 1/3/2011 +1100, Andrew Rich wrote:

...

Hello

I need some advice. I would like to purchase a Software Defined Radio

I would like to be able to do

1. Around 50 MHz to 2.400 GHz
2. USB LSB CW FM WFM / RAW ?
3. I would like to be able to decode AX25 packet (ISS)

I also have another project of decoding Mode S aircraft signals.

I have Windows XP / MAC OS X / Linux OpenSUSE.

What are my decoding options for the SDR ?

I can build packages etc in LINUX

• Andrew VK4TEC -

---

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Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]

Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]

---

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Howard needs to get someone on this side of the pond building these Dongles also. I'm sure he could have someone over here sign the NDA and produce significantly cheaper than in Europe.

The offer of a Mexican shop sure seems logical.

The exchange rate right now makes these about $175 US for Americans which is approaching pricey.

It's hard enough to get a softrock. One minute to order is doing nothing but making him look bad at present. I wasn't even going to attempt it. I thought about writing a perl script to order for me.. but that's insane. I wonder how many got them that way... sigh...

Fred W0FMS

Jan 2, 2011 07:57:20 PM, amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org wrote:

===========================================

More are coming...and you can be sure Howard is working to try to meet the demand.

I'm guessing that a key to having a reasonable supply is dependent on how the next 100 turn out--they are being assembled by a vendor, so Howard doesn't go blind and/or batty from making them all himself!! If you haven't been to the website to view the assembly video, you owe it to yourself to do so...

Sorry you didn't get one... yet ;) It'll be worth the wait!!

73,

Mark

At 12:50 AM 1/3/2011 +0000, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:

The only problem with the FCB is that they're currently very close to unobtainum. The batch that became available this morning (4AM at my current location) sold out in less than 1 minute (I didn't get one, in spite of typing as fast as I can, at exactly 20:00 UTC).

73, doug

...

...

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark L. Hammond" To: "Andrew Rich"; Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Need Advice for SDR choice

...

Check out:

http://www.funcubedongle.com/

Assuming you only need receive, of course...

Works great...just had a QSO on FO-29 using it for receive (thanks KB1RVT!).

73,

Mark N8MH

At 07:47 PM 1/3/2011 +1100, Andrew Rich wrote:

...

Hello

I need some advice. I would like to purchase a Software Defined Radio

I would like to be able to do

1. Around 50 MHz to 2.400 GHz
2. USB LSB CW FM WFM / RAW ?
3. I would like to be able to decode AX25 packet (ISS)

I also have another project of decoding Mode S aircraft signals.

I have Windows XP / MAC OS X / Linux OpenSUSE.

What are my decoding options for the SDR ?

I can build packages etc in LINUX

• Andrew VK4TEC -

---

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Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]

Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]

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Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]

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Folks

Some information for you.

We are already looking at having these distributed and manufactured externally.

The extreme demand was not what we expected I'm afraid. Please understand that to make these I have to personally invest several thousand dollars up front, and I want to have close control over the first units to make sure there is nothing that means a mass recall.

Regarding your comments about the NDA, this only applies to the device itself, in particular the tuner chip. This is very common in this area of semiconductors. It does not apply to host software, where source code is available already across windows, Linux and Mac OSX.

We thought long and hard about using a device with an NDA. However please remember that the original reason for the dongle was to provide a means of educational outreach for FUNcube, something that anyone could use, and that means making something plug and play, and reasonably priced. This almost dictated the use of a mass market tuner chip to keep the price down.

Remember that a proportion of the purchase price of the Pro model goes to supporting AMSAT. The educational outreach version will be significantly cheaper.

The NDA does not mean that the interface specs cannot be published. I have made available several example programs with source code. Already people other than me have developed software for the FCD. Someone has already written a Hamlib interface for example. The disclosure model is no different to, say, the excellent SDR IQ.

Regarding Linux support and drivers, the FCD was designed to work out of the box without any additional drivers in Linux, OSX and Windows. This is expressly mentioned right on the FUNcube Dongle home page.

Initially I had no intention of providing cross platform host software, leaving it to others. However after some quite vocal communications from the Mac and Linux communities I provided some cross platform example code. Bear in mind that the last time i wrote anything for the Mac was 20 years ago and for Linux perhaps about 10 years ago. I spent three weeks getting myself up to speed and making this work. It is interesting that the demographic stats of this accessing the FUNcube Dongle website shows only 4.6% are Linux users.

Hopefully this addresses the comments made.

73, Howard G6LVB

Sent from my iPhone

On 3 Jan 2011, at 03:36, Gordon JC Pearce gordonjcp@gjcp.net wrote:

On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 03:17 +0000, Fred Spinner wrote:

...

Howard needs to get someone on this side of the pond building these Dongles also. I'm sure he could have someone over here sign the NDA and produce significantly cheaper than in Europe.

I was interested until you said "NDA", now I won't touch it ;-)

...

From the FAQ it looks like it's only got half-assed Linux support and

the fact that there's an NDA involved suggests that it's going to be impossible to write a driver for it. Closed-source software has no place in amateur radio.

I'll stick to softrocks, thanks.

Gordon MM0YEQ

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On 03/01/11 15:03, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

There *are* sample programs, but none of them appear to build in Linux. Maybe I'm missing something. I got somewhere with the Qt version, but it moans about libusb not being installed. Why it can't see libusb sitting there happily in /lib/ is beyond me.

The build probably wants the -dev package as well as the built library, you might want to check if you have it installed. I'm afraid I've been a tad busy playing with the USRP SDR this Christmas, but I might look at the linux code for the FCD in the next couple of weeks

I suspect most of the compile issues are dependancy related...I know I'm spoilt these days on debian and ubuntu with the build-depends :)

73s

Iain

Howard:

As for the NDA, ask the vendor what is and is not acceptable. I'd approach this as it going to a bunch of engineers (there's a lot out there) that might also be interested in their chips. Not having access to the firmware is a problem for a lot of us. It makes the device basically like an ICOM radio..

Having access to the source would make the devices worth quite a bit more to me. I don't care all that much about the inner workings of the tuner. It's a tuner.. black box..

All of the NDA stuff is a tad bit ridiculous, but that is what the lawyers have done to us. The whole concept of "intellectual property" is insane, really. Can the end users sign the NDA and then get source from you. Is that possible?

As for demand, you didn't think there'd be demand for something like this? It's very neat, actually.

Maybe you should contact a MFJ or someone like that to mass produce these.. if you could, for example get $25/unit for AMSAT-UK you'd be doing great in the process.

Fred W0FMS Jan 3, 2011 09:05:41 AM, amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org wrote:

===========================================

On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 09:29 +0000, Howard Long wrote:

The extreme demand was not what we expected I'm afraid. Please understand that to make these I have to personally invest several thousand dollars up front, and I want to have close control over the first units to make sure there is nothing that means a mass recall.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really *really* glad you're shifting units. It makes it all worthwhile when you see those orders come in. What was it, just under a minute until the last batch sold out?

Regarding your comments about the NDA, this only applies to the device itself, in particular the tuner chip. This is very common in this area of semiconductors. It does not apply to host software, where source code is available already across windows, Linux and Mac OSX.

Okay, but how can we write software for it without access to the spec for the chip?

Remember that a proportion of the purchase price of the Pro model goes to supporting AMSAT. The educational outreach version will be significantly cheaper.

While I'd like to donate

The NDA does not mean that the interface specs cannot be published. I have made available several example programs with source code. Already people other than me have developed software for the FCD. Someone has already written a Hamlib interface for example. The disclosure model is no different to, say, the excellent SDR IQ.

There *are* sample programs, but none of them appear to build in Linux. Maybe I'm missing something. I got somewhere with the Qt version, but it moans about libusb not being installed. Why it can't see libusb sitting there happily in /lib/ is beyond me.

Regarding Linux support and drivers, the FCD was designed to work out of the box without any additional drivers in Linux, OSX and Windows. This is expressly mentioned right on the FUNcube Dongle home page.

Well, if it uses class-compliant devices then great - that *does* make it all a bit easier.

Initially I had no intention of providing cross platform host software, leaving it to others. However after some quite vocal communications from the Mac and Linux communities I provided some cross platform example code. Bear in mind that the last time i wrote anything for the Mac was 20 years ago and for Linux perhaps about 10 years ago. I spent three weeks getting myself up to speed and making this work. It is interesting that the demographic stats of this accessing the FUNcube Dongle website shows only 4.6% are Linux users.

Well, if the software doesn't run in Linux then people won't use it in Linux. If there was enough documentation to let me write software to support it, then I'd buy one as soon as they next became available.

Gordon MM0YEQ

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On 03/01/11 21:26, Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL wrote:

At 06:25 PM 1/2/2011 -0500, marklhammond@gmail.com wrote:

...

Check out:

http://www.funcubedongle.com/

Assuming you only need receive, of course...

Works great...just had a QSO on FO-29 using it for receive (thanks KB1RVT!).

73,

Mark N8MH

You know what's really interesting to me about this. With a WX type enclosure you could put the receiver right at the feedpoint of the antenna.

Well, maybe not, I don't know what the maximum USb cable length can be.

USB is not going to make *that* kind of distance, and I wouldn't reccomend it anyway, due to lightning etc...*BUT* you can get USB Opto Converters...

I must confess, once I've played a bit more with my USRP, There's likely to be a USRP2 going up the mast, with an ethernet<->fibre adapter on the end...

73s

Iain

On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 14:26 -0700, Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL wrote:

You know what's really interesting to me about this. With a WX type enclosure you could put the receiver right at the feedpoint of the antenna.

Well, maybe not, I don't know what the maximum USb cable length can be.

I thought about doing it with a Softrock 6.2 Lite right at the feedpoint, and fed with phantom power over the audio cable...

Gordon MM0YEQ

What we need is an Ethernet interface to USB that uses POE. This has got to be out there already.

I would put quite a few of these in remote locations for monitoring a whole lot of things.

tom K8TB

Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 14:26:55 -0700 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org From: vlfiscus@mcn.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Need Advice for SDR choice

At 06:25 PM 1/2/2011 -0500, marklhammond@gmail.com wrote:

I'm going to look into SDR. My Icom r-7100 has an IF out jack I could feed into a unit.

That was my first thought too, but R-7000 receiver's IF is at 10.7 MHz and the FCD only goes down to 64 MHz.

On the other hand, the R7000's tuning range isn't that different from the FCD, and I bet the FCD has better specs, so why bother with the receiver?

Greg KO6TH

Vince

For info, I have tested the FCD running on a 20m USB cable. I believe it might make 30m. That is the maximum you can do. This is achieved by using active extenders. In my 20m test, I used three 5m active extenders and a 5m passive extension.

Active extenders are nothing more than one port hubs.

I also tried running it on 10m completely passive, again no problem although technically out of USB spec.

73, Howard G6LVB

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL Sent: 03 January 2011 21:27 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Need Advice for SDR choice

At 06:25 PM 1/2/2011 -0500, marklhammond@gmail.com wrote:

Check out:

http://www.funcubedongle.com/

Assuming you only need receive, of course...

Works great...just had a QSO on FO-29 using it for receive (thanks

KB1RVT!).

73,

Mark N8MH

You know what's really interesting to me about this. With a WX type enclosure you could put the receiver right at the feedpoint of the antenna.

Well, maybe not, I don't know what the maximum USb cable length can be.

I'm going to look into SDR. My Icom r-7100 has an IF out jack I could feed into a unit.

KB7ADL

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He could go with a 10.7 MHz fixed IF Softrock for about $30 (with the special crystal) instead of $175 for the FCD and maybe have a chance at getting one sooner than later if he really wanted to use it with the ICOM.

A soundcard is needed for a softrock, but I have used a $50 USB one in the past from China no problem if he can't use the built in one (like on a laptop).

Fred

Jan 3, 2011 06:26:01 PM, amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org wrote:

===========================================

Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 14:26:55 -0700 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org From: vlfiscus@mcn.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Need Advice for SDR choice

At 06:25 PM 1/2/2011 -0500, marklhammond@gmail.com wrote:

I'm going to look into SDR. My Icom r-7100 has an IF out jack I could feed into a unit.

That was my first thought too, but R-7000 receiver's IF is at 10.7 MHz and the FCD only goes down to 64 MHz.

On the other hand, the R7000's tuning range isn't that different from the FCD, and I bet the FCD has better specs, so why bother with the receiver?

Greg KO6TH

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I would echo Mark's comments regarding the FCD.

I was also lucky enough to receive one of the first batch and have been experimenting ever since. The device is excellent, its stability and performance is remarkable throughout its intended operating range.

If you enjoyed Softrock at HF then for VHF and above this little unit is your next step.

And of course it's supporting the Funcube Project.

David G8OQW

********

http://www.funcubedongle.com/

http://funcube.org.uk/

********

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Mark L. Hammond Sent: 04 January 2011 12:21 To: amsat-bb Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Need Advice for SDR choice

I think the most significant difference between the FCD and the Softrocks is FREQUENCY, isn't it? Are there Softrocks that will do 64-1700 MHz?

I don't remember for sure, but I thought the Softrocks are good only up to 30 or 50 MHz. The FCD is from 60-ish to 1.7GHz. That makes them apples to oranges in comparison.

So, if I have this right, I would need a Softrock and what---two or three downconverters?--to cover just 2M, 70cm, and 23 cm. Oh, add a sound card. That's more than the cost of a FCD shipped to the US...

If you're using an IF of a receiver, you need the receiver!! and the Softrock. And a sound card.

I have three Softrock kits sitting on the bench right now, for those exact reasons above. The FCD is a one piece, plug and play solution for the bands I wanted to work (VHF, UHF). There really isn't a better option, far as I can tell...

73,

Mark N8MH

As someone else who owns an ICOM R-7000 receiver, I've never been impressed by its receive specs. I used mine in the receive chain for AO-40, with a 30" BBQ Grill, Drake 2880 downconverter, and Khune preamp on the roof, and seldom ever got the S-meter to move off the left-hand peg. Still made plenty of contacts, but it was never arm-chair copy.

I haven't seen the specs on the FCD, but I bet it's the better receiver. Couldn't possibly be worse...

Greg KO6TH

From: w4as@bellsouth.net Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:07:06 -0500 To: marklhammond@gmail.com; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Need Advice for SDR choice

For someone who already owns an Icom R-7000, a $20 Softrock kit with the appropriate crystal for 10.7 MHz, connected to the IF output and a good sound card, will be able to display a 96 kHz bandwidth. The Softrock in this case would basically be a slave to the R-7000, whatever mode or frequency the R-7000 can use, the Softrock would display on a monitor and output the audio. A very inexpensive, yet very desirable addition to a station.

There will soon (in a matter of weeks) be a UHFSDR available, which is a low power TRANSCEIVER, at about the same price as the FCD, however that won't be as simple as a plug and play USB device.

There is also a $74 Softrock HF 1 watt transceiver available; I have one on my bench which will be my next project. And there are also inexpensive (under $100) kits for amplifiers with around 20 watts output available from TAPR.

Using these inexpensive devices, along with free software such as SDR-Radio (by the same author of Ham Radio Deluxe) is an eye opening experience when compared with many of today's expensive HF rigs.

There are also 'beta' Softrocks that cover up to 144 MHz. The near future certainly holds a lot of promise for even better inexpensive SDR transceivers. The FCD looks like a great deal, and I plan to order one when they become available again.

73 de Sebastian, W4AS

On Jan 4, 2011, at 7:21 AM, Mark L. Hammond wrote:

...

I think the most significant difference between the FCD and the Softrocks is FREQUENCY, isn't it? Are there Softrocks that will do 64-1700 MHz?

I don't remember for sure, but I thought the Softrocks are good only up to 30 or 50 MHz. The FCD is from 60-ish to 1.7GHz. That makes them apples to oranges in comparison.

So, if I have this right, I would need a Softrock and what---two or three downconverters?--to cover just 2M, 70cm, and 23 cm. Oh, add a sound card. That's more than the cost of a FCD shipped to the US...

If you're using an IF of a receiver, you need the receiver!! and the Softrock. And a sound card.

I have three Softrock kits sitting on the bench right now, for those exact reasons above. The FCD is a one piece, plug and play solution for the bands I wanted to work (VHF, UHF). There really isn't a better option, far as I can tell...

73,

Mark N8MH

At 05:19 AM 1/4/2011 +0000, you wrote:

...

He could go with a 10.7 MHz fixed IF Softrock for about $30 (with the special crystal) instead of $175 for the FCD and maybe have a chance at getting one sooner than later if he really wanted to use it with the ICOM.

A soundcard is needed for a softrock, but I have used a $50 USB one in the past from China no problem if he can't use the built in one (like on a laptop).

Fred

Jan 3, 2011 06:26:01 PM, amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org wrote:

===========================================

...

Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 14:26:55 -0700 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org From: vlfiscus@mcn.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Need Advice for SDR choice

At 06:25 PM 1/2/2011 -0500, marklhammond@gmail.com wrote:

I'm going to look into SDR. My Icom r-7100 has an IF out jack I could feed into a unit.

That was my first thought too, but R-7000 receiver's IF is at 10.7 MHz and the FCD only goes down to 64 MHz.

On the other hand, the R7000's tuning range isn't that different from the FCD, and I bet the FCD has better specs, so why bother with the receiver?

Greg KO6TH

---

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