A study of the AO-7 eclipse charts for the last 3 years shows a progression toward non-elipse orbits in late 2007 - 2008.
In effect, this means that AO-7 in all probability will not change mode unless anything untoward happens.
It also means that we appear to have a permanent mode-B LEO linear transponder for the forseeable future ... providing operators follow the recommended operating proceedure.
Please *do* decrease your power as the satellite approaches TCA to avaoid FM'ing.
This not only helps the satellite, it helps the other operators in the passband.
Don't be fooled by propagation anomolies. The mode-B transponder is working well and will continue to do so providing the alligators go and play somewhere else. Under normal circumstances you do NOT !! need a lot of power. Please use only the necessary to maintain adequate communications. If you can't copy people adequately, you should improve your receiving capabilities rather than increasing your uplink power ... remember, aluminium is cheap and it's a lot more user friendly to everyone concerned .... with perhaps the exception of your neighbours.
For all intents and purposes, AO-7 is a QRP satellite. Please treat it as such.
73 John. la2qaa@amsat.org
A study of the AO-7 eclipse charts for the last 3 years shows a progression toward non-elipse orbits in late 2007 - 2008.
In effect, this means that AO-7 in all probability will not change mode unless anything untoward happens.
It also means that we appear to have a permanent mode-B LEO linear transponder for the forseeable future ... providing operators follow the recommended operating proceedure.
Hi John, I do not believe that is correct, I think that once its non-eclipse that the internal timer will no longer get reset by a eclipse and we will go back to a regular mode A B switch based on that timer...
your thoughts???
73 Kevin WA6FWF
Looking at the AO7 log for July there were 3 or 4 times it was in Mode A.
73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: "wa6fwf" wa6fwf@sbcglobal.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 report.
A study of the AO-7 eclipse charts for the last 3 years shows a
progression
toward non-elipse orbits in late 2007 - 2008.
In effect, this means that AO-7 in all probability will not change mode unless anything untoward happens.
It also means that we appear to have a permanent mode-B LEO linear transponder for the forseeable future ... providing operators follow the recommended operating proceedure.
Hi John, I do not believe that is correct, I think that once its non-eclipse that
the internal
timer will no longer get reset by a eclipse and we will go back to a
regular
mode A B switch based on that timer...
your thoughts???
73 Kevin WA6FWF
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
John - When AO-7 is powered all the time doesn't the on board housekeeping unit control the mode and switch between mode A and Mode B?
Having a full time Mode B LEO linear transponder is great, in my opinion, having a Mode A LEO one will be even better. - Duffey On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:32 AM, John Hackett wrote:
A study of the AO-7 eclipse charts for the last 3 years shows a progression toward non-elipse orbits in late 2007 - 2008.
In effect, this means that AO-7 in all probability will not change mode unless anything untoward happens.
It also means that we appear to have a permanent mode-B LEO linear transponder for the forseeable future ... providing operators follow the recommended operating proceedure.
Please *do* decrease your power as the satellite approaches TCA to avaoid FM'ing.
This not only helps the satellite, it helps the other operators in the passband.
Don't be fooled by propagation anomolies. The mode-B transponder is working well and will continue to do so providing the alligators go and play somewhere else. Under normal circumstances you do NOT !! need a lot of power. Please use only the necessary to maintain adequate communications. If you can't copy people adequately, you should improve your receiving capabilities rather than increasing your uplink power ... remember, aluminium is cheap and it's a lot more user friendly to everyone concerned .... with perhaps the exception of your neighbours.
For all intents and purposes, AO-7 is a QRP satellite. Please treat it as such.
73 John. la2qaa@amsat.org
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
James Duffey queried...
"When AO-7 is powered all the time doesn't the on board housekeeping unit control the mode and switch between mode A and Mode B?"
"The following information is from AMSAT NEWSLETTER dated Sept 1974
The two repeaters are operated alternately by means of a timer arrangement, but repeater selection and output power control can also be accomplished by ground command."
And . "from Jan King, W3GEY, who provided the following information in an email ...
It appears that the 24 hour clock that would cycle the transponders between modes A and B is working but, it gets reset every time the satellite goes into eclipse"
Which by my understanding, will produce a change of mode from A to B (or B to A if you prefer) every 24 hours with no eclipse event. I believe there have been cases where excessive power drain (usage) has resulted in a mode change mid-timer, but I haven't been able to document that.
Roger WA1KAT
----- Original Message ----- From: "James Duffey" JamesDuffey@comcast.net To: la2qaa@amsat.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org; Eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 11:32 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 report.
John - When AO-7 is powered all the time doesn't the on board housekeeping unit control the mode and switch between mode A and Mode B?
Having a full time Mode B LEO linear transponder is great, in my opinion, having a Mode A LEO one will be even better. - Duffey On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:32 AM, John Hackett wrote:
A study of the AO-7 eclipse charts for the last 3 years shows a progression toward non-elipse orbits in late 2007 - 2008.
In effect, this means that AO-7 in all probability will not change mode unless anything untoward happens.
It also means that we appear to have a permanent mode-B LEO linear transponder for the forseeable future ... providing operators follow the recommended operating proceedure.
Please *do* decrease your power as the satellite approaches TCA to avaoid FM'ing.
This not only helps the satellite, it helps the other operators in the passband.
Don't be fooled by propagation anomolies. The mode-B transponder is working well and will continue to do so providing the alligators go and play somewhere else. Under normal circumstances you do NOT !! need a lot of power. Please use only the necessary to maintain adequate communications. If you can't copy people adequately, you should improve your receiving capabilities rather than increasing your uplink power ... remember, aluminium is cheap and it's a lot more user friendly to everyone concerned .... with perhaps the exception of your neighbours.
For all intents and purposes, AO-7 is a QRP satellite. Please treat it as such.
73 John. la2qaa@amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Roger, I have written to James (Duffy) direcly and have given him the facts as I know them.
I can assure you that the information in the 1974 Amsat newsletter you refer to is *NOT* ... I repeat 'NOT' correct ... with reference to the timer.
Just because something "APPEARS" to be so, and Amsat "SAYS" it is so ... it doesn't necessarily turn that information into a 'FACT' Roger.
I have often been ... (and still am) ... in contact with Jan King and I prefer his version to the events re: the timer rather than those related in the 1974 journal ... not least since he actually built and installed that timer.
(Much has also been said re: Karl Meinzer's "filter" ... remember !!! technology has changed, those components are 31 years old !!!)
If you have a copy of the news sheet Roger, have a look at page 6 (quote) .... "accomplished by a crystal controlled clock" ... (unquote).
Without Jan's permission I will NOT retransmit parts of his personal mails to me on this bulletin board but if he assures me ... (and he does) ... that there was no crystal used in the timer ... I believe him. He also explained to me *WHY* it was thus.
I believe what was in the 1974 News Sheet may have been the plan !!! ... or the wishful thinking, if you will ... but according to the person who actually built and installed it ... "t'aint necessarily so!".
Like I have mentioned previously, in other mails, 98% of the data collected over the last 3 years is/was false data ... (GM1SXX wrote a special program just for this particular purpose) ... which, if you look more closely at it, (the data) it often contradicts itself ... but again, you will find references to this and the timer on the 'Observations" page at http://www.observations.biz/
(I have *NOT* published some of my findings on the Amsat-bb since they *could* be conscrued as criticism of Amsat ... (which is most certainly not !!! my intent) ... I have seen what happens to anyone who dare have the audacity to offer a different opinion to the majority... however, that being said ... what I have found can be read in various articles on the Observations site.
People will usually believe what they 'want' to believe Roger ... true or not ... and that's fine by me.
In part ... it's a free world.
73 John. la2qaa@amsat.org ........................................................................................................................................
From: "Roger Kolakowski" rogerkola@aol.com To: "James Duffey" JamesDuffey@comcast.net, la2qaa@amsat.org CC: amsat-bb@amsat.org, Eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 report.- Band switching Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 11:47:41 -0300
James Duffey queried...
"When AO-7 is powered all the time doesn't the on board housekeeping unit control the mode and switch between mode A and Mode
B?"
"The following information is from AMSAT NEWSLETTER dated Sept 1974
The two repeaters are operated alternately by means of a timer arrangement, but repeater selection and output power control can also be accomplished by ground command."
And . "from Jan King, W3GEY, who provided the following information in an email ...
It appears that the 24 hour clock that would cycle the transponders between modes A and B is working but, it gets reset every time the satellite goes into eclipse"
Which by my understanding, will produce a change of mode from A to B (or B to A if you prefer) every 24 hours with no eclipse event. I believe there have been cases where excessive power drain (usage) has resulted in a mode change mid-timer, but I haven't been able to document that.
Roger WA1KAT
----- Original Message ----- From: "James Duffey" JamesDuffey@comcast.net To: la2qaa@amsat.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org; Eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 11:32 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 report.
John - When AO-7 is powered all the time doesn't the on board housekeeping unit control the mode and switch between mode A and Mode B?
Having a full time Mode B LEO linear transponder is great, in my opinion, having a Mode A LEO one will be even better. - Duffey On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:32 AM, John Hackett wrote:
A study of the AO-7 eclipse charts for the last 3 years shows a progression toward non-elipse orbits in late 2007 - 2008.
In effect, this means that AO-7 in all probability will not change mode unless anything untoward happens.
It also means that we appear to have a permanent mode-B LEO linear transponder for the forseeable future ... providing operators follow the recommended operating proceedure.
Please *do* decrease your power as the satellite approaches TCA to avaoid FM'ing.
This not only helps the satellite, it helps the other operators in the passband.
Don't be fooled by propagation anomolies. The mode-B transponder is working well and will continue to do so providing the alligators go and play somewhere else. Under normal circumstances you do NOT !! need a lot of power. Please use only the necessary to maintain adequate communications. If you can't copy people adequately, you should improve your receiving capabilities rather than increasing your uplink power ... remember, aluminium is cheap and it's a lot more user friendly to everyone concerned .... with perhaps the exception of your neighbours.
For all intents and purposes, AO-7 is a QRP satellite. Please treat it as such.
73 John. la2qaa@amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi John...
The second "source" I quoted is supposedly from Jan King himself and was a statement he was supposed to have made in an email "after" AO-7 was "reborn."
I would love to hear your version of what will happen when there is a lack of eclipse for the satellite...I personally don't see the significance of a crystal controlled clock on a 24 hour timer which has similar discreet components which are as likely to fail as a counter.
As for me...I can wait to find out, but as for your opinion of AMSAT, I find that it is only the "experts" who try to justify their opinions without facts that are criticized by the people "in the know."
Are you saying AO-7 went up without a timer? Now that's a headline. Are you saying the timer is no longer functioning? That's entirely possible. Other than conversations with Jan...how is it you determined that the timer is no longer "in the mix?"
If AO-7 comes out it's "final" eclipse in Mode A, will it stay there?
Enquiring minds want to know...
Many thanks!
Roger WA1KAT
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hackett" archie.hackett@hotmail.com To: rogerkola@aol.com Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org; allan_gm1sxx@hotmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 report.- Band switching
Roger, I have written to James (Duffy) direcly and have given him the facts as I know them.
I can assure you that the information in the 1974 Amsat newsletter you
refer
to is *NOT* ... I repeat 'NOT' correct ... with reference to the timer.
Just because something "APPEARS" to be so, and Amsat "SAYS" it is so ...
it
doesn't necessarily turn that information into a 'FACT' Roger.
I have often been ... (and still am) ... in contact with Jan King and I prefer his version to the events re: the timer rather than those related
in
the 1974 journal ... not least since he actually built and installed that timer.
(Much has also been said re: Karl Meinzer's "filter" ... remember !!! technology has changed, those components are 31 years old !!!)
If you have a copy of the news sheet Roger, have a look at page 6 (quote) .... "accomplished by a crystal controlled clock" ... (unquote).
Without Jan's permission I will NOT retransmit parts of his personal mails to me on this bulletin board but if he assures me ... (and he does) ... that there was no crystal used in the timer ... I believe him. He also explained to me *WHY* it was thus.
I believe what was in the 1974 News Sheet may have been the plan !!! ...
or
the wishful thinking, if you will ... but according to the person who actually built and installed it ... "t'aint necessarily so!".
Like I have mentioned previously, in other mails, 98% of the data
collected
over the last 3 years is/was false data ... (GM1SXX wrote a special
program
just for this particular purpose) ... which, if you look more closely at
it,
(the data) it often contradicts itself ... but again, you will find references to this and the timer on the 'Observations" page at http://www.observations.biz/
(I have *NOT* published some of my findings on the Amsat-bb since they *could* be conscrued as criticism of Amsat ... (which is most certainly
not
!!! my intent) ... I have seen what happens to anyone who dare have the audacity to offer a different opinion to the majority... however, that
being
said ... what I have found can be read in various articles on the Observations site.
People will usually believe what they 'want' to believe Roger ... true or not ... and that's fine by me.
In part ... it's a free world.
73 John. la2qaa@amsat.org
............................................................................ ............................................................
From: "Roger Kolakowski" rogerkola@aol.com To: "James Duffey" JamesDuffey@comcast.net, la2qaa@amsat.org CC: amsat-bb@amsat.org, Eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 report.- Band switching Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 11:47:41 -0300
James Duffey queried...
"When AO-7 is powered all the time doesn't the on board housekeeping unit control the mode and switch between mode A and Mode
B?"
"The following information is from AMSAT NEWSLETTER dated Sept 1974
The two repeaters are operated alternately by means of a timer
arrangement,
but repeater selection and output power control can also be accomplished
by
ground command."
And . "from Jan King, W3GEY, who provided the following information in an email ...
It appears that the 24 hour clock that would cycle the transponders
between
modes A and B is working but, it gets reset every time the satellite goes into eclipse"
Which by my understanding, will produce a change of mode from A to B (or
B
to A if you prefer) every 24 hours with no eclipse event. I believe there have been cases where excessive power drain (usage) has resulted in a
mode
change mid-timer, but I haven't been able to document that.
Roger WA1KAT
----- Original Message ----- From: "James Duffey" JamesDuffey@comcast.net To: la2qaa@amsat.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org; Eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 11:32 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 report.
John - When AO-7 is powered all the time doesn't the on board housekeeping unit control the mode and switch between mode A and Mode
B?
Having a full time Mode B LEO linear transponder is great, in my opinion, having a Mode A LEO one will be even better. - Duffey On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:32 AM, John Hackett wrote:
A study of the AO-7 eclipse charts for the last 3 years shows a progression toward non-elipse orbits in late 2007 - 2008.
In effect, this means that AO-7 in all probability will not change
mode
unless anything untoward happens.
It also means that we appear to have a permanent mode-B LEO linear transponder for the forseeable future ... providing operators follow
the
recommended operating proceedure.
Please *do* decrease your power as the satellite approaches TCA to avaoid FM'ing.
This not only helps the satellite, it helps the other operators in the passband.
Don't be fooled by propagation anomolies. The mode-B transponder is working well and will continue to do so providing the alligators go and play somewhere else. Under normal circumstances you do NOT !! need a lot of power. Please use only the necessary to maintain adequate communications. If you can't copy people adequately, you should improve your receiving capabilities rather than increasing your uplink power ... remember, aluminium is cheap and it's a lot more user friendly to everyone concerned .... with perhaps the exception of your neighbours.
For all intents and purposes, AO-7 is a QRP satellite. Please treat it as such.
73 John. la2qaa@amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the
author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the
author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Gents, rather than argue the point, why don't we wait and see what happens when it is out of eclipse, also everyone could have a refresher of this same discussion by re-reading the BB Jan 2006 archives or you can cut to the chase with this link... http://www.amsat.org/amsat/archive/amsat-bb/200601/msg00455.html
73 Kevin WA6FWF Amsat-UK #6505 Amsat-NA #19623
Hello Kevin, Roger, Kevin, I'm glad you dug out one of my earlier posts re: the timer issue.
(Roger, I'm the chappie the >>>>'s are referring to in the following post).
http://www.amsat.org/amsat/archive/amsat-bb/200601/msg00455.html
Like I already mentioned ... and Kevin repeats ... it's no big deal, lets just wait and see.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, no harm done. Lets not waste anymore bandwidth on it ok? ... however, Roger, it would be impolite of me not to answer you questions.
I would love to hear your version of what will happen when there is a lack of eclipse for the satellite
As I previously mentioned, I would expect the satellite to remain in the mode it was in as it came out of eclipse. As I also mentioned, I would stand corrected if that doesn't happen ... ie ... it is not !!! a big deal and if I'm wrong ... I'm wrong ... no harm done.
Please note that I am *NOT* the first AO-7 operator to come to this conclusion.
Are you saying AO-7 went up without a timer?
No ... I'm not saying that, I am saying that the designer and constructor of the apparatus in question told me that the components used were not as stated in the 1974 newsletter.
<Are you saying the timer is no longer functioning?
I have said earlier and am saying now !!! ... that the timer functions PERIODICALLY ... as can be seen by the entries in the log for the last 3 years ... (monitored by myself).
Perhaps a re-read of my original mail might be of value here?.
The intent ... to make a simple observation for the benefit of those who don't necessarily follow the daily "doings" of AO-7 like I do.
Nothing more - nothing less. No form of criticism to anybody or anything offered or implied.
how is it you determined that the timer is no longer "in the mix?"
By monitoring the satellite daily for the last 3 years.
If AO-7 comes out it's "final" eclipse in Mode A, will it stay there?.
Who knows !!! ... I certainly don't. I think the real experts all agree ... it *random* ... the reasons are many and varied ... *NOT* just temerature and age.
CC'd to interested parties.
73 John. la2qaa@amsat.org AO-7 Resource Page Admin:
Hi John...
Thank you for answering my questions, I now have an understanding of your basis for believing that the timer no longer functions or is random at best.
I am now willing to wait quietly for the Eclipse-free date. Has it been estimated or calculated?
Many thanks!
Roger WA1KAT
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hackett" archie.hackett@hotmail.com To: wa6fwf@sbcglobal.net Cc: rogerkola@aol.com; amsat-bb@amsat.org; allan_gm1sxx@hotmail.com; Eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 5:36 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 report.- Band switching
Hello Kevin, Roger, Kevin, I'm glad you dug out one of my earlier posts re: the timer issue.
(Roger, I'm the chappie the >>>>'s are referring to in the following
post).
http://www.amsat.org/amsat/archive/amsat-bb/200601/msg00455.html
Like I already mentioned ... and Kevin repeats ... it's no big deal, lets just wait and see.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, no harm done. Lets not waste anymore bandwidth on it ok? ... however, Roger, it would be impolite of me not to answer you questions.
I would love to hear your version of what will happen when there is a
lack
of eclipse for the satellite
As I previously mentioned, I would expect the satellite to remain in the mode it was in as it came out of eclipse. As I also mentioned, I would
stand
corrected if that doesn't happen ... ie ... it is not !!! a big deal and if I'm wrong ... I'm wrong ... no harm done.
Please note that I am *NOT* the first AO-7 operator to come to this conclusion.
Are you saying AO-7 went up without a timer?
No ... I'm not saying that, I am saying that the designer and constructor
of
the apparatus in question told me that the components used were not as stated in the 1974 newsletter.
<Are you saying the timer is no longer functioning?
I have said earlier and am saying now !!! ... that the timer functions PERIODICALLY ... as can be seen by the entries in the log for the last 3 years ... (monitored by myself).
Perhaps a re-read of my original mail might be of value here?.
The intent ... to make a simple observation for the benefit of those who don't necessarily follow the daily "doings" of AO-7 like I do.
Nothing more - nothing less. No form of criticism to anybody or anything offered or implied.
how is it you determined that the timer is no longer "in the mix?"
By monitoring the satellite daily for the last 3 years.
If AO-7 comes out it's "final" eclipse in Mode A, will it stay there?.
Who knows !!! ... I certainly don't. I think the real experts all agree
...
it *random* ... the reasons are many and varied ... *NOT* just temerature and age.
CC'd to interested parties.
73 John. la2qaa@amsat.org AO-7 Resource Page Admin:
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (5)
-
James Duffey -
John Geiger -
John Hackett -
Roger Kolakowski -
wa6fwf