Hi All,
I've had a good look round the forums and on the net generally, I'm coming into satellites as a newcomer, having spent my past 15 ham years on HF/6M CW/DIGI modes. (with a bit of DSTAR recently..!!)
So a few questions I hope you can answer and update me....
i) Generally what power levels are needed to access the birds...?
ii) Antenna's - I've read a lot about the arrow antenna - how good is this antenna would you recommend for a new comer ?
iii) HT or Base Transceiver - How realistic is working satellites on an HT with 5W ? & is base transceiver preferred ?
iv) Following on from the above - I've read about the FT-2000 or FT-847 which would be better suited to satellites or another rig ?
v) Obviously a rotator / elevator with a beam(s) will give a better performance, but what sort of performance could I expect out of an arrow on a tripod with an HT & 5W ?
vi) On the HT subject - is it necessary to use 2 HT (one TX / one RX) or will just one do ?
vii) ....and finally...some have mentioned that not all the sats listed on the AMSAT page are live - where can I get the most upto date list of satellites that are active & their frequencies / modes..?
Thats it for now - hope you can help...chances are I may have some more questions soon.....
Cheers
RH / G0TKZ
Answers inserted below...
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rupert Hamblin" rupert.hamblin@gmail.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:09 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] New To Satellites
Hi All,
I've had a good look round the forums and on the net generally, I'm coming into satellites as a newcomer, having spent my past 15 ham years on HF/6M CW/DIGI modes. (with a bit of DSTAR recently..!!)
So a few questions I hope you can answer and update me....
i) Generally what power levels are needed to access the birds...?
It depends on the mode. With the current crop of low earth orbiting satellites (LEOs), only a few watts into a beam will do the job. There are those who routinely make contacts with 500 mW, but most are probably in the 5 to 25 watt range (there IS a lot of competition). There's no harm in using more power with the FM satellites, but on the linear birds, use the minimum necessary to hear yourself on the downlink (obvious caveat: full-duplex operation is called for), because stronger signals cause the AGC to kick in, locking out weaker stations. It's common courtesy (and an FCC rule here in the States) to use the minimum power necessary. And rule number one is, maximize your RECEIVE capability before worrying about your uplink. As the old adage says, "you can't work 'em if you can't hear 'em!"
ii) Antenna's - I've read a lot about the arrow antenna - how good is this antenna would you recommend for a new comer ?
The Arrow (2-meter and 70 cm antennas on the same boom) and the Elk antenna (a log periodic design) are both very good for portable operations. I don't think the Arrow is recommended for permanent installation, though. Most portable ops on here use one or the other.
iii) HT or Base Transceiver - How realistic is working satellites on an HT with 5W ? & is base transceiver preferred ?
Many use a 5 watt HT with great success, either with one of the antennas above, or the Pryme AL-800 telescoping whip. The most important requirement in an HT for satellite use is the ability to hear yourself on the downlink while you are transmitting on the uplink. If you search back thru the archives here, you will find a list of suitable HT's posted within the last couple of months. Base installations have their own obstacles to overcome... coax length & routing, lightning protection, and antenna installation (size, azimuth rotor only vs.full az-el, etc.) among them. Most of the "base" satellite rigs will operate from 12 volts, so they make nice mobile/rover/Field Day/demo satellite stations as well.
iv) Following on from the above - I've read about the FT-2000 or FT-847 which would be better suited to satellites or another rig ?
You'll get as many different opinions on the "best" satellite rig as there are rigs out there. Many like the HF/VHF/UHF "all-in-one" boxes, others prefer dedicated satellite radios like the Icom 910H (myself included). Many dual-band FM mobiles are quite suitable for operating the FM-only LEOs, as well. I used to make lots of mobile contacts using a Yaesu FT-8100R mobile. Some like to go cheap, building their station with older rigs like the IC-271 or 275 and IC-471 or 475. I started out on the old RS-series Russian birds (2M up/10M down, 15M up/10M down, and 15M up/2M down) with a Drake T-4XB, R-4B, and the matching TC-2/RC-2 2-meter transmit & receive converters, all for less than $600 US...
v) Obviously a rotator / elevator with a beam(s) will give a better performance, but what sort of performance could I expect out of an arrow on a tripod with an HT & 5W ?
Again, quite respectable performance can be had with that combination. Unless you want to hunt for the signal, it's a good idea to print out a table of the desired satellite's azimuth and elevation throughout the pass, or get a small computer (Netbook) or tracking app for your cell phone/PDA. I've made many portable contacts using a 5W HT and a 2-meter beam made of steel measuring tape (see the picture on my QRZ.com profile page)
vi) On the HT subject - is it necessary to use 2 HT (one TX / one RX) or will just one do ?
You can do it either way... with a full-duplex HT, the Arrow antenna must have a diplexer installed to combine the VHF and UHF signals, while the Elk has a single feedline and does not require a diplexer. With 2 HTs, the Arrow can provide separate feedlines, while the Elk would require a diplexer to combine the VHF and UHF signals
vii) ....and finally...some have mentioned that not all the sats listed on the AMSAT page are live - where can I get the most upto date list of satellites that are active & their frequencies / modes..?
The AMSAT pages are the best source of frequency/mode information, while http://oscar.dcarr.org is probably the best site for activity information.
Thats it for now - hope you can help...chances are I may have some more questions soon.....
Cheers
RH / G0TKZ
You came to the right place to get your answers... there are a lot of very knowledgeable operators here! Just remember, your station "needs" may not be the same as anyone else's, so feel free to experiment!
Good luck!
George, KA3HSW
Hi All,
Many thanks for all your replies to my initial questions, very grateful for your knowledge and input.
I think to start my satellite journey I'll initially concentrate on receive side first, then work my way onto the FM satellites. Just for my own reference can you confirm the current FM satellites and which ones are the CW/SSB Linear transponders ?
(SO-67, SO-50, AO-27, AO-51, HO-68) FM ?
SSB / CW ?
Many thanks for your help....
Regards
RH / G0TKZ
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rupert Hamblin" rupert.hamblin@gmail.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:09 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] New To Satellites
Hi All,
I've had a good look round the forums and on the net generally, I'm coming into satellites as a newcomer, having spent my past 15 ham years on HF/6M CW/DIGI modes. (with a bit of DSTAR recently..!!)
So a few questions I hope you can answer and update me....
i) Generally what power levels are needed to access the birds...?
It depends on the mode. With the current crop of low earth orbiting satellites (LEOs), only a few watts into a beam will do the job. There are those who routinely make contacts with 500 mW, but most are probably in the 5 to 25 watt range (there IS a lot of competition). There's no harm in using more power with the FM satellites, but on the linear birds, use the minimum necessary to hear yourself on the downlink (obvious caveat: full-duplex operation is called for), because stronger signals cause the AGC to kick in, locking out weaker stations. It's common courtesy (and an FCC rule here in the States) to use the minimum power necessary. And rule number one is, maximize your RECEIVE capability before worrying about your uplink. As the old adage says, "you can't work 'em if you can't hear 'em!"
ii) Antenna's - I've read a lot about the arrow antenna - how good is this antenna would you recommend for a new comer ?
The Arrow (2-meter and 70 cm antennas on the same boom) and the Elk antenna (a log periodic design) are both very good for portable operations. I don't think the Arrow is recommended for permanent installation, though. Most portable ops on here use one or the other.
iii) HT or Base Transceiver - How realistic is working satellites on an HT with 5W ? & is base transceiver preferred ?
Many use a 5 watt HT with great success, either with one of the antennas above, or the Pryme AL-800 telescoping whip. The most important requirement in an HT for satellite use is the ability to hear yourself on the downlink while you are transmitting on the uplink. If you search back thru the archives here, you will find a list of suitable HT's posted within the last couple of months. Base installations have their own obstacles to overcome... coax length & routing, lightning protection, and antenna installation (size, azimuth rotor only vs.full az-el, etc.) among them. Most of the "base" satellite rigs will operate from 12 volts, so they make nice mobile/rover/Field Day/demo satellite stations as well.
iv) Following on from the above - I've read about the FT-2000 or FT-847 which would be better suited to satellites or another rig ?
You'll get as many different opinions on the "best" satellite rig as there are rigs out there. Many like the HF/VHF/UHF "all-in-one" boxes, others prefer dedicated satellite radios like the Icom 910H (myself included). Many dual-band FM mobiles are quite suitable for operating the FM-only LEOs, as well. I used to make lots of mobile contacts using a Yaesu FT-8100R mobile. Some like to go cheap, building their station with older rigs like the IC-271 or 275 and IC-471 or 475. I started out on the old RS-series Russian birds (2M up/10M down, 15M up/10M down, and 15M up/2M down) with a Drake T-4XB, R-4B, and the matching TC-2/RC-2 2-meter transmit & receive converters, all for less than $600 US...
v) Obviously a rotator / elevator with a beam(s) will give a better performance, but what sort of performance could I expect out of an arrow on a tripod with an HT & 5W ?
Again, quite respectable performance can be had with that combination. Unless you want to hunt for the signal, it's a good idea to print out a table of the desired satellite's azimuth and elevation throughout the pass, or get a small computer (Netbook) or tracking app for your cell phone/PDA. I've made many portable contacts using a 5W HT and a 2-meter beam made of steel measuring tape (see the picture on my QRZ.com profile page)
vi) On the HT subject - is it necessary to use 2 HT (one TX / one RX) or will just one do ?
You can do it either way... with a full-duplex HT, the Arrow antenna must have a diplexer installed to combine the VHF and UHF signals, while the Elk has a single feedline and does not require a diplexer. With 2 HTs, the Arrow can provide separate feedlines, while the Elk would require a diplexer to combine the VHF and UHF signals
vii) ....and finally...some have mentioned that not all the sats listed on the AMSAT page are live - where can I get the most upto date list of satellites that are active & their frequencies / modes..?
The AMSAT pages are the best source of frequency/mode information, while http://oscar.dcarr.org is probably the best site for activity information.
Thats it for now - hope you can help...chances are I may have some more questions soon.....
Cheers
RH / G0TKZ
You came to the right place to get your answers... there are a lot of very knowledgeable operators here! Just remember, your station "needs" may not be the same as anyone else's, so feel free to experiment!
Good luck!
George, KA3HSW
participants (2)
-
George Henry -
Rupert Hamblin