I was in a similar situation several months ago. I had a pair of M Square antennas along with the elevation rotor and a Ham M to turn the antennas. What to do for a rig. Well I bought a brand new Icom 910H. A great rig. I use SatPC32 software which interfaces to the Icom via Icom's interface accessory (plug and play). You forget about your doppler shift once set up. I still control antennas manually with both rotors. The Icom 910H is a top of the line satellite transceiver. The only thing I would improve on it would be the RIT control. It only offers a 1 khz range but that is no big deal.
It sounds like you are going to setup for the SSB satellites. They can become very lonely. AO7 is used but by a handful of USA stations (you will not work Europe from CO. It suffers from some stations using excessive power and generating trash up and down the band too. FO 29 and VO 52 (both SSB/CW) also have a handful of operators. No hashy trash because they are newer birds. AO7 is 34 years old and easy to trash it with hash if you use excessive power.
If you live on the East Coast of the USA you could work Europe. QRZ.COM shows your location is in Colorado. Forget about working Europe. The FM satellites are very popular with AO 51 being the most popular. It suffers too from some poor operating at times. Most of the time it is OK. That early evening pass can be bedlam. SO 50 is useful but not used very often enough. It works well in my opinion. AO 16 is interesting but will be off the air very soon.
The reason I mention all of the above is because it impacts your selection of a rig. If you want to work a lot of grid squares which many of us do, the FM satellites are where the action is located. You do not need an Icom 910H and the money it represents to work the FM satellites well. You can do that with a HT (hand held). There are other dual band 440/144 FM rigs available for a fraction of the cost of an Icom 910H. The Kenwood TS2000 is a good rig but it has a birdie on SO 50's downlink making it impossible to use that FM satellite.
There is a big difference, in my opinion between the FM and SSB/CW satellites. FM being used to its capacity on AO 51 and the SSB/CW birds suffering from inactivity. Just a fact of life. Some may disagree with these observations. I was on the satellites back in the 1970s and came back in August 2008. I have made QSOs with 15 countries and 200 Grids and 45 states in that time. I think my intense 3 months of operating provides me with enough observations to make these statements.
I am often asked why not more activity on non-FM satellites. My answer has always been : 1) Doppler shift and 2) equipment. Unless you have software to manage the doppler shift on 435 mhz your signal will travel quickly across the band. Some experienced ops can do it manually but they are pros. Equipment for SSB/CW is relatively (emphasis) scarce compared to FM only rigs. You do not need software to control Doppler shift on FM. . . . you can control it in other ways.
To choose a transceiver depends on how you want to spend your time. If you are preparing for the HEO (German venture) then go with the Icom 910H type rig. If you just want to get on the satellites for the satellite experience you may find an FM only rig is more suited for you. Of course since you are not currently on the satellites ( my inference ) you would not have the benefit of personal knowledge. I hope my observations are helpful.
Selection of the gear depends on how you are going to use it. If you do not know that there are really two different roads to currently travel you could be wasting your money.
Just my 2 cents and probably not worth even that amount of money.
Wow. I wish I had asked this question on the AMSAT BB when I started back in April! Great observations, Jim. I am still a newbie, so this stuff helps me immensely. And as we discussed 1/1 via email, my two FT817 and Arrow are going to be a challenge on the non-FM birds for me, but it would be boring if it were easy!
What birds did you use to work Europe?
Mark Lunday WD4ELG wd4elg@arrl.net http://wd4elg.net
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Jim Danehy Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:56 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] W9VNE input on transceiver question
I was in a similar situation several months ago. I had a pair of M Square antennas along with the elevation rotor and a Ham M to turn the antennas. What to do for a rig. Well I bought a brand new Icom 910H. A great rig. I use SatPC32 software which interfaces to the Icom via Icom's interface accessory (plug and play). You forget about your doppler shift once set up. I still control antennas manually with both rotors. The Icom 910H is a top of the line satellite transceiver. The only thing I would improve on it would be the RIT control. It only offers a 1 khz range but that is no big deal.
It sounds like you are going to setup for the SSB satellites. They can become very lonely. AO7 is used but by a handful of USA stations (you will not work Europe from CO. It suffers from some stations using excessive power and generating trash up and down the band too. FO 29 and VO 52 (both SSB/CW) also have a handful of operators. No hashy trash because they are newer birds. AO7 is 34 years old and easy to trash it with hash if you use excessive power.
If you live on the East Coast of the USA you could work Europe. QRZ.COM shows your location is in Colorado. Forget about working Europe. The FM satellites are very popular with AO 51 being the most popular. It suffers too from some poor operating at times. Most of the time it is OK. That early evening pass can be bedlam. SO 50 is useful but not used very often enough. It works well in my opinion. AO 16 is interesting but will be off the air very soon.
The reason I mention all of the above is because it impacts your selection of a rig. If you want to work a lot of grid squares which many of us do, the FM satellites are where the action is located. You do not need an Icom 910H and the money it represents to work the FM satellites well. You can do that with a HT (hand held). There are other dual band 440/144 FM rigs available for a fraction of the cost of an Icom 910H. The Kenwood TS2000 is a good rig but it has a birdie on SO 50's downlink making it impossible to use that FM satellite.
There is a big difference, in my opinion between the FM and SSB/CW satellites. FM being used to its capacity on AO 51 and the SSB/CW birds suffering from inactivity. Just a fact of life. Some may disagree with these observations. I was on the satellites back in the 1970s and came back in August 2008. I have made QSOs with 15 countries and 200 Grids and 45 states in that time. I think my intense 3 months of operating provides me with enough observations to make these statements.
I am often asked why not more activity on non-FM satellites. My answer has always been : 1) Doppler shift and 2) equipment. Unless you have software to manage the doppler shift on 435 mhz your signal will travel quickly across the band. Some experienced ops can do it manually but they are pros. Equipment for SSB/CW is relatively (emphasis) scarce compared to FM only rigs. You do not need software to control Doppler shift on FM. . . . you can control it in other ways.
To choose a transceiver depends on how you want to spend your time. If you are preparing for the HEO (German venture) then go with the Icom 910H type rig. If you just want to get on the satellites for the satellite experience you may find an FM only rig is more suited for you. Of course since you are not currently on the satellites ( my inference ) you would not have the benefit of personal knowledge. I hope my observations are helpful.
Selection of the gear depends on how you are going to use it. If you do not know that there are really two different roads to currently travel you could be wasting your money.
Just my 2 cents and probably not worth even that amount of money. _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Mark
I can work Europe on AO 7 and FO 29 . . . . mostly UK and the Benelux countries of ON and PA also F is pretty easy . . . CU3 too . . . I know there is an EA8 but have not yet worked him . . . I do not push DX because until the Germans or somebody else puts an HEO into orbit, working DXCC would be impossible . . . unless I had a shot at DXCC I defer to the HF bands were I have worked them all . . . when DXCC becomes possible again on Satellites I will go after it then . . . I am not not too optimistic . . . . not a lot of information flowing on the progress of an HEO . . . .
Thanks for your comments
Jim W9VNE
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Lunday, WD4ELG" mlunday@nc.rr.com To: "'Jim Danehy'" jdanehy@cinci.rr.com; amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 9:09 PM Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] W9VNE input on transceiver question
Wow. I wish I had asked this question on the AMSAT BB when I started back in April! Great observations, Jim. I am still a newbie, so this stuff helps me immensely. And as we discussed 1/1 via email, my two FT817 and Arrow are going to be a challenge on the non-FM birds for me, but it would be boring if it were easy!
What birds did you use to work Europe?
Mark Lunday WD4ELG wd4elg@arrl.net http://wd4elg.net
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Jim Danehy Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:56 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] W9VNE input on transceiver question
I was in a similar situation several months ago. I had a pair of M Square antennas along with the elevation rotor and a Ham M to turn the antennas. What to do for a rig. Well I bought a brand new Icom 910H. A great rig. I use SatPC32 software which interfaces to the Icom via Icom's interface accessory (plug and play). You forget about your doppler shift once set up. I still control antennas manually with both rotors. The Icom 910H is a top of the line satellite transceiver. The only thing I would improve on it would be the RIT control. It only offers a 1 khz range but that is no big deal.
It sounds like you are going to setup for the SSB satellites. They can become very lonely. AO7 is used but by a handful of USA stations (you will not work Europe from CO. It suffers from some stations using excessive power and generating trash up and down the band too. FO 29 and VO 52 (both SSB/CW) also have a handful of operators. No hashy trash because they are newer birds. AO7 is 34 years old and easy to trash it with hash if you use excessive power.
If you live on the East Coast of the USA you could work Europe. QRZ.COM shows your location is in Colorado. Forget about working Europe. The FM satellites are very popular with AO 51 being the most popular. It suffers too from some poor operating at times. Most of the time it is OK. That early evening pass can be bedlam. SO 50 is useful but not used very often enough. It works well in my opinion. AO 16 is interesting but will be off the air very soon.
The reason I mention all of the above is because it impacts your selection of a rig. If you want to work a lot of grid squares which many of us do, the FM satellites are where the action is located. You do not need an Icom 910H and the money it represents to work the FM satellites well. You can do that with a HT (hand held). There are other dual band 440/144 FM rigs available for a fraction of the cost of an Icom 910H. The Kenwood TS2000 is a good rig but it has a birdie on SO 50's downlink making it impossible to use that FM satellite.
There is a big difference, in my opinion between the FM and SSB/CW satellites. FM being used to its capacity on AO 51 and the SSB/CW birds suffering from inactivity. Just a fact of life. Some may disagree with these observations. I was on the satellites back in the 1970s and came back in August 2008. I have made QSOs with 15 countries and 200 Grids and 45 states in that time. I think my intense 3 months of operating provides me with enough observations to make these statements.
I am often asked why not more activity on non-FM satellites. My answer has always been : 1) Doppler shift and 2) equipment. Unless you have software to manage the doppler shift on 435 mhz your signal will travel quickly across the band. Some experienced ops can do it manually but they are pros. Equipment for SSB/CW is relatively (emphasis) scarce compared to FM only rigs. You do not need software to control Doppler shift on FM. . . . you can control it in other ways.
To choose a transceiver depends on how you want to spend your time. If you are preparing for the HEO (German venture) then go with the Icom 910H type rig. If you just want to get on the satellites for the satellite experience you may find an FM only rig is more suited for you. Of course since you are not currently on the satellites ( my inference ) you would not have the benefit of personal knowledge. I hope my observations are helpful.
Selection of the gear depends on how you are going to use it. If you do not know that there are really two different roads to currently travel you could be wasting your money.
Just my 2 cents and probably not worth even that amount of money. _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Oh...very cool.
Made my 2 very first ever sat QSO's on the 1830 pass of AO51.
Simple radios, simple setup, simple(Cheap) Yagis.
Man you guys talk fast!!!
Curt KU8L
Satellites move at ~18,000 miles per hour. We have to keep up... :-)
Congrats on your accomplishment, and welcome to the community of satellite operators!
Greg KO6TH
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:14:34 -0500 From: cptcurt@flash.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] First SAt QSO
Oh...very cool.
Made my 2 very first ever sat QSO's on the 1830 pass of AO51.
Simple radios, simple setup, simple(Cheap) Yagis.
Man you guys talk fast!!!
Curt KU8L
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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On Nov 22, 2008, at 7:14 PM, Curt Nixon wrote:
Oh...very cool.
Made my 2 very first ever sat QSO's on the 1830 pass of AO51.
Simple radios, simple setup, simple(Cheap) Yagis.
Man you guys talk fast!!!
Welcome, Curt! I'm also a n00b. I missed the 1830 pass, but I'll be on the early morning pass and most of the passes tomorrow. I'll listen for you!
-- bag
Bryan - KL7CN - CM98fn West Sacramento, California
Curt, I think I heard you in there, but there might have been too many stations on there for me to call you.
The reason we talk fast is because of what someone already mentioned, AO-51 goes by pretty quickly. It's a very popular satellite, and the typical QSO is like a DX QSO on HF; with the exception that we exchange the grid, for those working towards VUCC.
Many of the AO-51 users realize that if they talk for a long time, that only cuts down the number of stations that can use the satellite during that pass.
Now if you want to be able to talk a little longer, I suggest you use SO-50, which is underutilized in my opinion. SO-50 requires a PL tone of 67.0, otherwise no one will hear you. I suppose that might be one reason why it is underutilized. A lot of hams may not realize that, and can't figure out why they can't hear themselves on the bird, and they give up. If you are able to work AO-51, you can work SO-50, so long as your radio can do PL.
I don't know the history of SO-50, but my guess is that it was decided to use a PL tone, because of QRM from non-licensed hams using high powered 'cordless phones' sold in some countries, and perhaps some illegal users on 2 meters in other parts of the world. Once you've been on AO-51 for a few days, you will realize what I'm saying!
Now if you really want to chew the rag, then you need to get on one of the SSB birds, such as FO-29 or VO-52; that is, if you have the proper equipment. There you will find that a pass can last a lot longer than AO-51, and not be limited to one 'channel'. But unfortunately as well, you will find those to be much more severely underutilized.
73 de W4AS Sebastian
On Nov 22, 2008, at 10:14 PM, Curt Nixon wrote:
Oh...very cool.
Made my 2 very first ever sat QSO's on the 1830 pass of AO51.
Simple radios, simple setup, simple(Cheap) Yagis.
Man you guys talk fast!!!
Curt KU8L
Sebastian wrote:
I don't know the history of SO-50, but my guess is that it was decided to use a PL tone, because of QRM from non-licensed hams using high powered 'cordless phones' sold in some countries, and perhaps some
Is that why I've sometimes heard DTMF and ringing tones on AO-51? I just put it down to general repeater abuse idiocy...
Gordon
participants (7)
-
Bryan Green -
Curt Nixon -
Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ -
Greg D. -
Jim Danehy -
Mark Lunday, WD4ELG -
Sebastian