The point I was trying to make was that by posing Robert's Rules as the tool of unsavory individuals, you seem to pose all rules that way. I think we should both agree that corporate directors should know their bylaws. It was my experience that Clayton did not read them before taking on operating the AMSAT election. AMSAT had to be told that it had a responsibility to provide addresses to the candidates for campaigning. The bylaws also call for the organizations publications to be available for campaigning - which is still not being fulfilled.

Thanks

Bruce

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 12:31 AM Paul F. Merrill marinesvcs@gmail.com wrote:

I know what they are. It was an example, perhaps too subtle, of the continually-plumbed depths of human dipshittery.

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 23:01 Bruce Perens bruce@perens.com wrote:

...

Paul,

Roberts Rules are regarding parliamentary procedure. AMSAT's bylaws are at https://www.amsat.org/bylaws-of-the-radio-amateur-satellite-corporation/ . They do not specify parliamentary procedure. They are about responsibilities of a director, elections, etc. And if you have the choice, Roberts is an antique, good parliamentarians use Sturgis.

Bruce

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:12 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:

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I agree that this mailing list has strayed from its strongest contribution: satellite information, discussion, and mentoring.

I come from, and have been on the BOD of, a professional organization for a number of years now.

FWIW, I know too well that an organization often lawyers up to protect itself, and in our issues, our attorney was engaged to act solely on behalf of the Organization and not necessarily current management.

This thread has turned in to a long, ugly diatribe filled with accusations, counter-accusations, and painfully-obvious shills. I am a recently-renewed member who doesn’t have a dog in the fight, so I just want what’s best for AMSAT.

Sadly, the stereotypes are starting to show - the members who contribute nothing but want to tear down those “In power,” the members who contribute nothing and don’t want anyone to make waves, and the few who actually do anything. As a number of people have commented, working in a non-profit or unpaid leadership role is utterly thankless, which is lost on many people - especially those who have never labored in this sort of endeavor.

My favorite story from our times of trouble is when our Parliamentarian said, “Roberts Rules are the last refuge of a scoundrel. Grown men and women should be able to comport themselves reasonably...but then I’d be out of a job.” I’m taking a little license with his exact words, but the sentiment, along with my experience, formed my native distrust of those who are right and everyone and everything before them is wrong. So...there’s my bias. I will examine that, and all the information I can before I vote. I hope everyone else will take the time and expend the effort to vote as intelligently as they can.

My overriding guidance to my Association is that we contribute to the group so that we all benefit from the group. A strong organization should outlive us.

Personally, I can’t wait to vote and hopefully put a fork in this.

Paul / W7IV

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Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700 From: "Daron Wilson" daron@wilson.org To: "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read Message-ID: 00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites operations still? Asking for a friend. This is getting old.

Daron N7HQR

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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb