I'm a bit doubtful on the no 67Hz on input theory. There were several stations trying to hit the satellite, including me. I was using only 5W, so perhaps the satellite won't lock to my 67Hz tone except in good conditions, but the other stations were probably using more power.
El 08/11/15 a las 18:19, David G0MRF escribió:
I think that just means there was no 67Hz on the input to start the 1 minute timer.
However, there were some mails about testing another mode yesterday, so the answer may be there.
73
David
-----Original Message----- From: Daniel Estévez [email protected] To: amsat-bb [email protected] Sent: Sun, 8 Nov 2015 14:37 Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-85 "reset" during pass
Hi all, An unusual thing happened during AO-85 last pass over Europe, at about 14:20 UTC or so. The transponder stopped working and the satellite went silent for about a minute. Then came the voice announcement in the lines of "Hi! This is radio amateur satellite Fox 1", and some seconds later the transponder started working again. I'm sorry that I have no telemetry recording of the pass to try to see what happened. 73, Dani M0HXM/EA4GPZ. _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Whatever the case, the telemetry shows that there was no satellite reset at that time. We did command a reset some time after that however. I have no other hypotheses.
On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Daniel Estévez [email protected] wrote:
I'm a bit doubtful on the no 67Hz on input theory. There were several stations trying to hit the satellite, including me. I was using only 5W, so perhaps the satellite won't lock to my 67Hz tone except in good conditions, but the other stations were probably using more power.
El 08/11/15 a las 18:19, David G0MRF escribió:
I think that just means there was no 67Hz on the input to start the 1 minute timer.
However, there were some mails about testing another mode yesterday, so the answer may be there.
73
David
-----Original Message----- From: Daniel Estévez [email protected] To: amsat-bb [email protected] Sent: Sun, 8 Nov 2015 14:37 Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-85 "reset" during pass
Hi all, An unusual thing happened during AO-85 last pass over Europe, at about 14:20 UTC or so. The transponder stopped working and the satellite went silent for about a minute. Then came the voice announcement in the lines of "Hi! This is radio amateur satellite Fox 1", and some seconds later the transponder started working again. I'm sorry that I have no telemetry recording of the pass to try to see what happened. 73, Dani M0HXM/EA4GPZ. _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
A few thoughts on this.
First, Burns mentioned "the hang timer on the transponder timing out not having detected a 67Hz tone in a couple minutes". He mis-spoke accidentally, the timing is one minute not a couple of minutes. So the hang timer will drop one minute after IHU ceases detecting a valid CTCSS.
Regarding the CTCSS detection, with the receive sensitivity issue we believe that this couples with a "tight" tone detection that we implemented for power budget reasons that I will elaborate on after we commission AO-85. The short story is that it makes it harder for AO-85 to hear and therefore find the tone. The tone detect requires the presence of the tone for 1.5-2 seconds to consider it valid therefore any fading, loss of signal, a stronger station capturing the receiver and perhaps being off frequency or low elevation so that their tone was not heard to continue that two seconds, or perhaps the strongest station was not using a tone - a number of factors might make it such that IHU just didn't hear a tone that it considers valid, for 60 seconds, so the hang timer times out. The tone is detected again, the hang timer is activated.
The description of the situation indicates the lack of tone detect and hang timer timeout based my experience testing Fox-1A.
Yes, tone detect is being addressed in Fox-1Cliff/D/B. :-)
Thanks for the reports. Hopefully this will help you understand what is probably happening, so that you might recognize it if it happens again and more importantly recognize if it is NOT what happened in a future situation that you report to us.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 11/8/2015 12:43, Daniel Estévez wrote:
I'm a bit doubtful on the no 67Hz on input theory. There were several stations trying to hit the satellite, including me. I was using only 5W, so perhaps the satellite won't lock to my 67Hz tone except in good conditions, but the other stations were probably using more power.
El 08/11/15 a las 18:19, David G0MRF escribió:
I think that just means there was no 67Hz on the input to start the 1 minute timer.
However, there were some mails about testing another mode yesterday, so the answer may be there.
73
David
-----Original Message----- From: Daniel Estévez [email protected] To: amsat-bb [email protected] Sent: Sun, 8 Nov 2015 14:37 Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-85 "reset" during pass
Hi all, An unusual thing happened during AO-85 last pass over Europe, at about 14:20 UTC or so. The transponder stopped working and the satellite went silent for about a minute. Then came the voice announcement in the lines of "Hi! This is radio amateur satellite Fox 1", and some seconds later the transponder started working again. I'm sorry that I have no telemetry recording of the pass to try to see what happened. 73, Dani M0HXM/EA4GPZ. _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Dear Jerry,
Many thanks for the in-depth explanation. Perhaps it's also possible that several stations are transmitting at the same time, each of them slightly off-frequency, so that the sat doesn't hear the 1.5-2 seconds of tone from any one of these stations because they keep transmitting on top of each other all the time, and some are weak and some are way off frequency... This seems very plausible from what I was hearing on the transponder.
73,
Dani M0HXM/EA4GPZ.
El 08/11/15 a las 19:55, Jerry Buxton escribió:
A few thoughts on this.
First, Burns mentioned "the hang timer on the transponder timing out not having detected a 67Hz tone in a couple minutes". He mis-spoke accidentally, the timing is one minute not a couple of minutes. So the hang timer will drop one minute after IHU ceases detecting a valid CTCSS.
Regarding the CTCSS detection, with the receive sensitivity issue we believe that this couples with a "tight" tone detection that we implemented for power budget reasons that I will elaborate on after we commission AO-85. The short story is that it makes it harder for AO-85 to hear and therefore find the tone. The tone detect requires the presence of the tone for 1.5-2 seconds to consider it valid therefore any fading, loss of signal, a stronger station capturing the receiver and perhaps being off frequency or low elevation so that their tone was not heard to continue that two seconds, or perhaps the strongest station was not using a tone - a number of factors might make it such that IHU just didn't hear a tone that it considers valid, for 60 seconds, so the hang timer times out. The tone is detected again, the hang timer is activated.
The description of the situation indicates the lack of tone detect and hang timer timeout based my experience testing Fox-1A.
Yes, tone detect is being addressed in Fox-1Cliff/D/B. :-)
Thanks for the reports. Hopefully this will help you understand what is probably happening, so that you might recognize it if it happens again and more importantly recognize if it is NOT what happened in a future situation that you report to us.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 11/8/2015 12:43, Daniel Estévez wrote:
I'm a bit doubtful on the no 67Hz on input theory. There were several stations trying to hit the satellite, including me. I was using only 5W, so perhaps the satellite won't lock to my 67Hz tone except in good conditions, but the other stations were probably using more power.
El 08/11/15 a las 18:19, David G0MRF escribió:
I think that just means there was no 67Hz on the input to start the 1 minute timer.
However, there were some mails about testing another mode yesterday, so the answer may be there.
73
David
-----Original Message----- From: Daniel Estévez [email protected] To: amsat-bb [email protected] Sent: Sun, 8 Nov 2015 14:37 Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-85 "reset" during pass
Hi all, An unusual thing happened during AO-85 last pass over Europe, at about 14:20 UTC or so. The transponder stopped working and the satellite went silent for about a minute. Then came the voice announcement in the lines of "Hi! This is radio amateur satellite Fox 1", and some seconds later the transponder started working again. I'm sorry that I have no telemetry recording of the pass to try to see what happened. 73, Dani M0HXM/EA4GPZ. _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thanks Jerry. I never remember that timeout period even though I'm the one that typed it into the software :-)
On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Jerry Buxton [email protected] wrote:
A few thoughts on this.
First, Burns mentioned "the hang timer on the transponder timing out not having detected a 67Hz tone in a couple minutes". He mis-spoke accidentally, the timing is one minute not a couple of minutes. So the hang timer will drop one minute after IHU ceases detecting a valid CTCSS.
Regarding the CTCSS detection, with the receive sensitivity issue we believe that this couples with a "tight" tone detection that we implemented for power budget reasons that I will elaborate on after we commission AO-85. The short story is that it makes it harder for AO-85 to hear and therefore find the tone. The tone detect requires the presence of the tone for 1.5-2 seconds to consider it valid therefore any fading, loss of signal, a stronger station capturing the receiver and perhaps being off frequency or low elevation so that their tone was not heard to continue that two seconds, or perhaps the strongest station was not using a tone - a number of factors might make it such that IHU just didn't hear a tone that it considers valid, for 60 seconds, so the hang timer times out. The tone is detected again, the hang timer is activated.
The description of the situation indicates the lack of tone detect and hang timer timeout based my experience testing Fox-1A.
Yes, tone detect is being addressed in Fox-1Cliff/D/B. :-)
Thanks for the reports. Hopefully this will help you understand what is probably happening, so that you might recognize it if it happens again and more importantly recognize if it is NOT what happened in a future situation that you report to us.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 11/8/2015 12:43, Daniel Estévez wrote:
I'm a bit doubtful on the no 67Hz on input theory. There were several stations trying to hit the satellite, including me. I was using only 5W, so perhaps the satellite won't lock to my 67Hz tone except in good conditions, but the other stations were probably using more power.
El 08/11/15 a las 18:19, David G0MRF escribió:
I think that just means there was no 67Hz on the input to start the 1 minute timer.
However, there were some mails about testing another mode yesterday, so the answer may be there.
73
David
-----Original Message----- From: Daniel Estévez [email protected] To: amsat-bb [email protected] Sent: Sun, 8 Nov 2015 14:37 Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-85 "reset" during pass
Hi all, An unusual thing happened during AO-85 last pass over Europe, at about 14:20 UTC or so. The transponder stopped working and the satellite went silent for about a minute. Then came the voice announcement in the lines of "Hi! This is radio amateur satellite Fox 1", and some seconds later the transponder started working again. I'm sorry that I have no telemetry recording of the pass to try to see what happened. 73, Dani M0HXM/EA4GPZ. _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
There's no reason to, you typed it already! ;-)
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 11/8/2015 14:20, Burns Fisher wrote:
Thanks Jerry. I never remember that timeout period even though I'm the one that typed it into the software :-)
participants (3)
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Burns Fisher -
Daniel Estévez -
Jerry Buxton