After posting some thoughts a few days ago (RE: ISS, what the heck happened?), I have given the idea more consideration.
Proposal (ARISS on ISS): 1) Install a 100-KHz transponder unit on ISS, with usual digital beacon/engineering 2) It would run mode-UV 3) Installed internally in the ISS 4) Replace most of the current ISS ham radio equipment 5) Could be considered an upgrade/improvement to the existing ham radio on ISS 6) Use ISS power and existing ham radio antenna infrastructure (no solar panels)(no thermal requirements for space environ)(perhaps less radiation hardening) 7) Use batteries for stand-alone operation (recharged from ISS power) 8) Control commanded from ground (no intervention required by astronauts) 9) Local access for use of astronaut-hams 10) Provide emergency back-up comms for ISS (perhaps with a separate FM channel) 11) (perhaps) Use of existing ham-radio handheld on ISS on low-power to dedicated receiver which would activate astronaut repeater channel. 12) This FM channel could be used as FM ham repeater when not in use by astronauts (means world-wide monitoring for the astronauts as well as normal Leo FM activity) 13) Modular design for future upgrades and/or repair (easy installation by astronauts-plug*n*play) 14) Segmented pass-band to allow packet/APRS digipeating 15) Transmitters able to be shut down for eva and other critical missions either locally on ISS or from ground. 16) Perhaps a special Rx/Tx on ISS eva channel for cross-band repeat in event of loss of atmosphere emergency (help to sell the concept to NASA as a comms back-up). 17) No need for orientation (spin or de-spin), rad hardening, thermal structures (air-cooled), no propulsion, no launch requirements. 18) Easily maintained by supply from ground (repairs or upgrades). 19) Long-Life
Re-direct of either Fox or P3E efforts? (no launch requirement-rides as cargo to ISS)
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
Good thoughts! Echoes and elaborates on my email.
John WA4WDL
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Edward R. Cole" kl7uw@acsalaska.net Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 4:54 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] A Proposal for ARISS
After posting some thoughts a few days ago (RE: ISS, what the heck happened?), I have given the idea more consideration.
Proposal (ARISS on ISS):
- Install a 100-KHz transponder unit on ISS, with usual digital
beacon/engineering 2) It would run mode-UV 3) Installed internally in the ISS 4) Replace most of the current ISS ham radio equipment 5) Could be considered an upgrade/improvement to the existing ham radio on ISS 6) Use ISS power and existing ham radio antenna infrastructure (no solar panels)(no thermal requirements for space environ)(perhaps less radiation hardening) 7) Use batteries for stand-alone operation (recharged from ISS power) 8) Control commanded from ground (no intervention required by astronauts) 9) Local access for use of astronaut-hams 10) Provide emergency back-up comms for ISS (perhaps with a separate FM channel) 11) (perhaps) Use of existing ham-radio handheld on ISS on low-power to dedicated receiver which would activate astronaut repeater channel. 12) This FM channel could be used as FM ham repeater when not in use by astronauts (means world-wide monitoring for the astronauts as well as normal Leo FM activity) 13) Modular design for future upgrades and/or repair (easy installation by astronauts-plug*n*play) 14) Segmented pass-band to allow packet/APRS digipeating 15) Transmitters able to be shut down for eva and other critical missions either locally on ISS or from ground. 16) Perhaps a special Rx/Tx on ISS eva channel for cross-band repeat in event of loss of atmosphere emergency (help to sell the concept to NASA as a comms back-up). 17) No need for orientation (spin or de-spin), rad hardening, thermal structures (air-cooled), no propulsion, no launch requirements. 18) Easily maintained by supply from ground (repairs or upgrades). 19) Long-Life
Re-direct of either Fox or P3E efforts? (no launch requirement-rides as cargo to ISS)
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Redirected to the SAREX group. I do not agree with all of these point, however, No standing program should be de funded to do these. Get another satellite up ASAP is AMSAT's main goal. 73, Dee, NB2F
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Edward R. Cole Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 4:55 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] A Proposal for ARISS
After posting some thoughts a few days ago (RE: ISS, what the heck happened?), I have given the idea more consideration.
Proposal (ARISS on ISS): 1) Install a 100-KHz transponder unit on ISS, with usual digital beacon/engineering 2) It would run mode-UV 3) Installed internally in the ISS 4) Replace most of the current ISS ham radio equipment 5) Could be considered an upgrade/improvement to the existing ham radio on ISS 6) Use ISS power and existing ham radio antenna infrastructure (no solar panels)(no thermal requirements for space environ)(perhaps less radiation hardening) 7) Use batteries for stand-alone operation (recharged from ISS power) 8) Control commanded from ground (no intervention required by astronauts) 9) Local access for use of astronaut-hams 10) Provide emergency back-up comms for ISS (perhaps with a separate FM channel) 11) (perhaps) Use of existing ham-radio handheld on ISS on low-power to dedicated receiver which would activate astronaut repeater channel. 12) This FM channel could be used as FM ham repeater when not in use by astronauts (means world-wide monitoring for the astronauts as well as normal Leo FM activity) 13) Modular design for future upgrades and/or repair (easy installation by astronauts-plug*n*play) 14) Segmented pass-band to allow packet/APRS digipeating 15) Transmitters able to be shut down for eva and other critical missions either locally on ISS or from ground. 16) Perhaps a special Rx/Tx on ISS eva channel for cross-band repeat in event of loss of atmosphere emergency (help to sell the concept to NASA as a comms back-up). 17) No need for orientation (spin or de-spin), rad hardening, thermal structures (air-cooled), no propulsion, no launch requirements. 18) Easily maintained by supply from ground (repairs or upgrades). 19) Long-Life
Re-direct of either Fox or P3E efforts? (no launch requirement-rides as cargo to ISS)
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Dee,
Thanks. Not sure this a SAREX Project but will let them decide that.
My only thought is a new satellite must find a launch and launch money. MY proposal would get a ride to ISS with cargo. I am not minimizing the issues for placing ham satellite on ISS, but I think the concept has promise.
If Fox or P3E sit on the shelf for 5-10 years for lack of a launch maybe better redirected for ISS. Not my call, obviously.
73, Ed - KL7UW PS: some of us are getting old and may not still be here in 10-years?
At 02:19 PM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
Redirected to the SAREX group. I do not agree with all of these point, however, No standing program should be de funded to do these. Get another satellite up ASAP is AMSAT's main goal. 73, Dee, NB2F
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Edward R. Cole Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 4:55 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] A Proposal for ARISS
After posting some thoughts a few days ago (RE: ISS, what the heck happened?), I have given the idea more consideration.
Proposal (ARISS on ISS):
- Install a 100-KHz transponder unit on ISS, with usual digital
beacon/engineering 2) It would run mode-UV 3) Installed internally in the ISS 4) Replace most of the current ISS ham radio equipment 5) Could be considered an upgrade/improvement to the existing ham radio on ISS 6) Use ISS power and existing ham radio antenna infrastructure (no solar panels)(no thermal requirements for space environ)(perhaps less radiation hardening) 7) Use batteries for stand-alone operation (recharged from ISS power) 8) Control commanded from ground (no intervention required by astronauts) 9) Local access for use of astronaut-hams 10) Provide emergency back-up comms for ISS (perhaps with a separate FM channel) 11) (perhaps) Use of existing ham-radio handheld on ISS on low-power to dedicated receiver which would activate astronaut repeater channel. 12) This FM channel could be used as FM ham repeater when not in use by astronauts (means world-wide monitoring for the astronauts as well as normal Leo FM activity) 13) Modular design for future upgrades and/or repair (easy installation by astronauts-plug*n*play) 14) Segmented pass-band to allow packet/APRS digipeating 15) Transmitters able to be shut down for eva and other critical missions either locally on ISS or from ground. 16) Perhaps a special Rx/Tx on ISS eva channel for cross-band repeat in event of loss of atmosphere emergency (help to sell the concept to NASA as a comms back-up). 17) No need for orientation (spin or de-spin), rad hardening, thermal structures (air-cooled), no propulsion, no launch requirements. 18) Easily maintained by supply from ground (repairs or upgrades). 19) Long-Life
Re-direct of either Fox or P3E efforts? (no launch requirement-rides as cargo to ISS)
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
Ed mentioned ...
My only thought is a new satellite must find a launch and launch money. MY proposal would get a ride to ISS with cargo.
One fact in today's launch environment is that a single-purposed mission goal such as 'contacts-with-a-bunch-of-ham-radio-operators' will have little chance of success.
The key element to getting AMSAT satellites launched is we need to have a strong link to NASA's Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math (STEM) guidelines. Could we improve upon the RF link for school contacts? When there aren't school contacts then our proposed transponder could be re-purposed for our ham activity.
From what I've read in the specifications, the software defined transponder
on ARISSat-1/RadioSkaf-V is a flying prototype of an AMSAT flexible SDX (linear, FM, digital). The AMSAT package also includes power management, IHU and an interface to potentially STEM-financed experiments ... compare that to other transponders that provide an RF-only PC board.
This could be a "next-logical-step"! -- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM k9jkm@amsat.org
Ed, I have to agree with you about the last P.S. Some of "us" are getting old and may NOT be here in 10years!! Dee
-----Original Message----- From: Edward R. Cole [mailto:kl7uw@acsalaska.net] Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:04 PM To: Dee Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FW: A Proposal for ARISS
Dee,
Thanks. Not sure this a SAREX Project but will let them decide that.
My only thought is a new satellite must find a launch and launch money. MY proposal would get a ride to ISS with cargo. I am not minimizing the issues for placing ham satellite on ISS, but I think the concept has promise.
If Fox or P3E sit on the shelf for 5-10 years for lack of a launch maybe better redirected for ISS. Not my call, obviously.
73, Ed - KL7UW PS: some of us are getting old and may not still be here in 10-years?
At 02:19 PM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
Redirected to the SAREX group. I do not agree with all of these point, however, No standing program should be de funded to do these. Get another satellite up ASAP is AMSAT's main goal. 73, Dee, NB2F
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Edward R. Cole Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 4:55 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] A Proposal for ARISS
After posting some thoughts a few days ago (RE: ISS, what the heck happened?), I have given the idea more consideration.
Proposal (ARISS on ISS):
- Install a 100-KHz transponder unit on ISS, with usual digital
beacon/engineering 2) It would run mode-UV 3) Installed internally in the ISS 4) Replace most of the current ISS ham radio equipment 5) Could be considered an upgrade/improvement to the existing ham radio on ISS 6) Use ISS power and existing ham radio antenna infrastructure (no solar panels)(no thermal requirements for space environ)(perhaps less radiation hardening) 7) Use batteries for stand-alone operation (recharged from ISS power) 8) Control commanded from ground (no intervention required by astronauts) 9) Local access for use of astronaut-hams 10) Provide emergency back-up comms for ISS (perhaps with a separate FM channel) 11) (perhaps) Use of existing ham-radio handheld on ISS on low-power to dedicated receiver which would activate astronaut repeater channel. 12) This FM channel could be used as FM ham repeater when not in use by astronauts (means world-wide monitoring for the astronauts as well as normal Leo FM activity) 13) Modular design for future upgrades and/or repair (easy installation by astronauts-plug*n*play) 14) Segmented pass-band to allow packet/APRS digipeating 15) Transmitters able to be shut down for eva and other critical missions either locally on ISS or from ground. 16) Perhaps a special Rx/Tx on ISS eva channel for cross-band repeat in event of loss of atmosphere emergency (help to sell the concept to NASA as a comms back-up). 17) No need for orientation (spin or de-spin), rad hardening, thermal structures (air-cooled), no propulsion, no launch requirements. 18) Easily maintained by supply from ground (repairs or upgrades). 19) Long-Life
Re-direct of either Fox or P3E efforts? (no launch requirement-rides as cargo to ISS)
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
Dear Friends,
It is important to understand that ARISS is not AMSAT.
From the ARISS web page: "ARISS, (Amateur Radio on the International Space Station) is a program that offers an opportunity for students to experience the excitement of Amateur Radio by talking directly with crewmembers of the ISS (International Space Station). Teachers, parents and communities will see how Amateur Radio can energize youngsters about science, technology, and learning. Speaking with astronauts and other crewmembers is a unique educational experience. ARISS would like to take this opportunity to involve large numbers of individuals, particularly youth, in technology and the International space program with the help of Amateur Radio."
The primary reason NASA supports ARISS is to promote their Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM) education initiatives. This is also true of our Russian friends at RSC-Energia and the other members of ARISS International.
So, please excuse my bluntness here, but a transponder that is solely for the benefit of hams to contact each other, is just not going to "fly" as an ARISS project as it does not support the program mission.
AMSAT has supported the ARISS program because of the opportunity to put ham radio hardware in space, including ARISSat-1, without having to pay launch costs. These costs really are "astronomical." There is no chance we could afford put any hardware on the ISS without it being a part of the ARISS program.
P3E sits on the ground because it costs far more than hams could possibly afford to pay to launch it into orbit. AMSAT-DL has done a great job promoting the science mission aspects of P3E in an attempt to get government funding for it but so far, it has been to no avail. We certainly all wish them luck but realistically, it is a very tough environment.
The primary reason AMSAT is pursuing the Fox program is because we CAN actually afford the launch costs. Although the very tiny size of a CubeSat (4" x 4" x 4") makes it technically very challenging because we want to actually make contacts through it not just listen to it beep, you can be assured that it will not sit on the shelf for lack of a launch.
I hope this helps to clarify the situation.
The next AMSAT Journal issue will have a report on my recent participation at the Small Payload Rideshare Conference. Several of the presentations included ballpark launch cost numbers for small satellites. The numbers (like $10M+) are eyepopping to say the least. It is clear that AMSAT has to take an opportunistic approach and pursue all of the opportunities we can find for low-cost or free launches.
73, Tony AA2TX AMSAT, VP Engineering
----
On 7/1/2011 7:03 PM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
Dee,
Thanks. Not sure this a SAREX Project but will let them decide that.
My only thought is a new satellite must find a launch and launch money. MY proposal would get a ride to ISS with cargo. I am not minimizing the issues for placing ham satellite on ISS, but I think the concept has promise.
If Fox or P3E sit on the shelf for 5-10 years for lack of a launch maybe better redirected for ISS. Not my call, obviously.
73, Ed - KL7UW PS: some of us are getting old and may not still be here in 10-years?
At 02:19 PM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
Redirected to the SAREX group. I do not agree with all of these point, however, No standing program should be de funded to do these. Get another satellite up ASAP is AMSAT's main goal. 73, Dee, NB2F
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Edward R. Cole Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 4:55 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] A Proposal for ARISS
After posting some thoughts a few days ago (RE: ISS, what the heck happened?), I have given the idea more consideration.
Proposal (ARISS on ISS):
- Install a 100-KHz transponder unit on ISS, with usual digital
beacon/engineering 2) It would run mode-UV 3) Installed internally in the ISS 4) Replace most of the current ISS ham radio equipment 5) Could be considered an upgrade/improvement to the existing ham radio on ISS 6) Use ISS power and existing ham radio antenna infrastructure (no solar panels)(no thermal requirements for space environ)(perhaps less radiation hardening) 7) Use batteries for stand-alone operation (recharged from ISS power) 8) Control commanded from ground (no intervention required by astronauts) 9) Local access for use of astronaut-hams 10) Provide emergency back-up comms for ISS (perhaps with a separate FM channel) 11) (perhaps) Use of existing ham-radio handheld on ISS on low-power to dedicated receiver which would activate astronaut repeater channel. 12) This FM channel could be used as FM ham repeater when not in use by astronauts (means world-wide monitoring for the astronauts as well as normal Leo FM activity) 13) Modular design for future upgrades and/or repair (easy installation by astronauts-plug*n*play) 14) Segmented pass-band to allow packet/APRS digipeating 15) Transmitters able to be shut down for eva and other critical missions either locally on ISS or from ground. 16) Perhaps a special Rx/Tx on ISS eva channel for cross-band repeat in event of loss of atmosphere emergency (help to sell the concept to NASA as a comms back-up). 17) No need for orientation (spin or de-spin), rad hardening, thermal structures (air-cooled), no propulsion, no launch requirements. 18) Easily maintained by supply from ground (repairs or upgrades). 19) Long-Life
Re-direct of either Fox or P3E efforts? (no launch requirement-rides as cargo to ISS)
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Tony, Thanks for giving this some credence. Although AMSAT is a supporter of ARISS, We are NOT ARISS. There are members of our group that assist with decisions and actually supply some of the required gear. ARISS must stand for an educational aspect working along with the Astronauts. Yes, the ARISSat project seemed to be turned into an add on by the other users of the International Space Station but hopefully will be redirected back into what it was intended to do. This should have been done a while ago and now we are in the summer hiatus of American schools and hopefully will be functioning at the opening of the school session later this year. See ANS 184 for update on this. Let us insure that the AMSAT goals of future satellites are still primarily at the top of the list. It is because of volunteers like Tony that we keep activities growing. See you on the birds. 73, Dee, NB2F
Dear Friends,
It is important to understand that ARISS is not AMSAT.
From the ARISS web page: "ARISS, (Amateur Radio on the International Space Station) is a program that offers an opportunity for students to experience the excitement of Amateur Radio by talking directly with crewmembers of the ISS (International Space Station). Teachers, parents and communities will see how Amateur Radio can energize youngsters about science, technology, and learning. Speaking with astronauts and other crewmembers is a unique educational experience. ARISS would like to take this opportunity to involve large numbers of individuals, particularly youth, in technology and the International space program with the help of Amateur Radio."
The primary reason NASA supports ARISS is to promote their Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM) education initiatives. This is also true of our Russian friends at RSC-Energia and the other members of ARISS International.
So, please excuse my bluntness here, but a transponder that is solely for the benefit of hams to contact each other, is just not going to "fly" as an ARISS project as it does not support the program mission.
AMSAT has supported the ARISS program because of the opportunity to put ham radio hardware in space, including ARISSat-1, without having to pay launch costs. These costs really are "astronomical." There is no chance we could afford put any hardware on the ISS without it being a part of the ARISS program.
P3E sits on the ground because it costs far more than hams could possibly afford to pay to launch it into orbit. AMSAT-DL has done a great job promoting the science mission aspects of P3E in an attempt to get government funding for it but so far, it has been to no avail. We certainly all wish them luck but realistically, it is a very tough environment.
The primary reason AMSAT is pursuing the Fox program is because we CAN actually afford the launch costs. Although the very tiny size of a CubeSat (4" x 4" x 4") makes it technically very challenging because we want to actually make contacts through it not just listen to it beep, you can be assured that it will not sit on the shelf for lack of a launch.
I hope this helps to clarify the situation.
The next AMSAT Journal issue will have a report on my recent participation at the Small Payload Rideshare Conference. Several of the presentations included ballpark launch cost numbers for small satellites. The numbers (like $10M+) are eyepopping to say the least. It is clear that AMSAT has to take an opportunistic approach and pursue all of the opportunities we can find for low-cost or free launches.
73, Tony AA2TX AMSAT, VP Engineering
----
On 7/1/2011 7:03 PM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
Dee,
Thanks. Not sure this a SAREX Project but will let them decide that.
My only thought is a new satellite must find a launch and launch money. MY proposal would get a ride to ISS with cargo. I am not minimizing the issues for placing ham satellite on ISS, but I think the concept has promise.
If Fox or P3E sit on the shelf for 5-10 years for lack of a launch maybe better redirected for ISS. Not my call, obviously.
73, Ed - KL7UW PS: some of us are getting old and may not still be here in 10-years?
At 02:19 PM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
Redirected to the SAREX group. I do not agree with all of these point, however, No standing program should be de funded to do these. Get another satellite up ASAP is AMSAT's main goal. 73, Dee, NB2F
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Edward R. Cole Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 4:55 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] A Proposal for ARISS
After posting some thoughts a few days ago (RE: ISS, what the heck happened?), I have given the idea more consideration.
Proposal (ARISS on ISS):
- Install a 100-KHz transponder unit on ISS, with usual digital
beacon/engineering 2) It would run mode-UV 3) Installed internally in the ISS 4) Replace most of the current ISS ham radio equipment 5) Could be considered an upgrade/improvement to the existing ham radio on ISS 6) Use ISS power and existing ham radio antenna infrastructure (no solar panels)(no thermal requirements for space environ)(perhaps less radiation hardening) 7) Use batteries for stand-alone operation (recharged from ISS power) 8) Control commanded from ground (no intervention required by astronauts) 9) Local access for use of astronaut-hams 10) Provide emergency back-up comms for ISS (perhaps with a separate FM channel) 11) (perhaps) Use of existing ham-radio handheld on ISS on low-power to dedicated receiver which would activate astronaut repeater channel. 12) This FM channel could be used as FM ham repeater when not in use by astronauts (means world-wide monitoring for the astronauts as well as normal Leo FM activity) 13) Modular design for future upgrades and/or repair (easy installation by astronauts-plug*n*play) 14) Segmented pass-band to allow packet/APRS digipeating 15) Transmitters able to be shut down for eva and other critical missions either locally on ISS or from ground. 16) Perhaps a special Rx/Tx on ISS eva channel for cross-band repeat in event of loss of atmosphere emergency (help to sell the concept to NASA as a comms back-up). 17) No need for orientation (spin or de-spin), rad hardening, thermal structures (air-cooled), no propulsion, no launch requirements. 18) Easily maintained by supply from ground (repairs or upgrades). 19) Long-Life
Re-direct of either Fox or P3E efforts? (no launch requirement-rides as cargo to ISS)
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
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That's one of those stunningly simple "Why haven't we already done it?" type of ideas.
I'd GLADLY support a project like this with money.
Anybody else?
Jim KQ6EA
On 07/01/2011 08:54 PM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
After posting some thoughts a few days ago (RE: ISS, what the heck happened?), I have given the idea more consideration.
Proposal (ARISS on ISS):
- Install a 100-KHz transponder unit on ISS, with usual digital
beacon/engineering 2) It would run mode-UV 3) Installed internally in the ISS 4) Replace most of the current ISS ham radio equipment 5) Could be considered an upgrade/improvement to the existing ham radio on ISS 6) Use ISS power and existing ham radio antenna infrastructure (no solar panels)(no thermal requirements for space environ)(perhaps less radiation hardening) 7) Use batteries for stand-alone operation (recharged from ISS power) 8) Control commanded from ground (no intervention required by astronauts) 9) Local access for use of astronaut-hams 10) Provide emergency back-up comms for ISS (perhaps with a separate FM channel) 11) (perhaps) Use of existing ham-radio handheld on ISS on low-power to dedicated receiver which would activate astronaut repeater channel. 12) This FM channel could be used as FM ham repeater when not in use by astronauts (means world-wide monitoring for the astronauts as well as normal Leo FM activity) 13) Modular design for future upgrades and/or repair (easy installation by astronauts-plug*n*play) 14) Segmented pass-band to allow packet/APRS digipeating 15) Transmitters able to be shut down for eva and other critical missions either locally on ISS or from ground. 16) Perhaps a special Rx/Tx on ISS eva channel for cross-band repeat in event of loss of atmosphere emergency (help to sell the concept to NASA as a comms back-up). 17) No need for orientation (spin or de-spin), rad hardening, thermal structures (air-cooled), no propulsion, no launch requirements. 18) Easily maintained by supply from ground (repairs or upgrades). 19) Long-Life
Re-direct of either Fox or P3E efforts? (no launch requirement-rides as cargo to ISS)
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
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Nice wish list Ed. A well thought out inventory of kit.
I recall 2 years ago I had some communication with some current and ex-members of ARISS and came up with something similar. Unfortunately, and hopefully this has now changed, I was left with the impression that ARISS was not AMSAT. That space tested transponders were not wanted and the ideal solution was a new D-800 (or should that be D-700) with a big fan and modified firmware.
I decided that it was not worth continuing the conversation and waited for time to pass.
Sadly Europe is not doing any better. Thousands of dollars worth of antennas on the exterior of the Columbus module and not a single piece of radio hardware in sight. Years of wasted opportunity. I now just apologise to those members of the microwave community here who contributed to the antennas.
Thank heavens for ARISSat-1 though, a glimmer of hope for all of us.
David
-----Original Message----- From: Edward R. Cole kl7uw@acsalaska.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 21:54 Subject: [amsat-bb] A Proposal for ARISS
After posting some thoughts a few days ago (RE: ISS, what the heck happened?), I have given the idea more consideration.
Proposal (ARISS on ISS): 1) Install a 100-KHz transponder unit on ISS, with usual digital beacon/engineering 2) It would run mode-UV 3) Installed internally in the ISS 4) Replace most of the current ISS ham radio equipment 5) Could be considered an upgrade/improvement to the existing ham radio on ISS 6) Use ISS power and existing ham radio antenna infrastructure (no solar panels)(no thermal requirements for space environ)(perhaps less radiation hardening) 7) Use batteries for stand-alone operation (recharged from ISS power) 8) Control commanded from ground (no intervention required by astronauts) 9) Local access for use of astronaut-hams 10) Provide emergency back-up comms for ISS (perhaps with a separate FM channel) 11) (perhaps) Use of existing ham-radio handheld on ISS on low-power to dedicated receiver which would activate astronaut repeater channel. 12) This FM channel could be used as FM ham repeater when not in use by astronauts (means world-wide monitoring for the astronauts as well as normal Leo FM activity) 13) Modular design for future upgrades and/or repair (easy installation by astronauts-plug*n*play) 14) Segmented pass-band to allow packet/APRS digipeating 15) Transmitters able to be shut down for eva and other critical missions either locally on ISS or from ground. 16) Perhaps a special Rx/Tx on ISS eva channel for cross-band repeat in event of loss of atmosphere emergency (help to sell the concept to NASA as a comms back-up). 17) No need for orientation (spin or de-spin), rad hardening, thermal structures (air-cooled), no propulsion, no launch requirements. 18) Easily maintained by supply from ground (repairs or upgrades). 19) Long-Life
Re-direct of either Fox or P3E efforts? (no launch requirement-rides as cargo to ISS)
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Ed, KL7UW
I agree !
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward R. Cole" kl7uw@acsalaska.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:54 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] A Proposal for ARISS
After posting some thoughts a few days ago (RE: ISS, what the heck happened?), I have given the idea more consideration.
Proposal (ARISS on ISS):
- Install a 100-KHz transponder unit on ISS, with usual digital
beacon/engineering 2) It would run mode-UV 3) Installed internally in the ISS 4) Replace most of the current ISS ham radio equipment 5) Could be considered an upgrade/improvement to the existing ham radio
on ISS
- Use ISS power and existing ham radio antenna infrastructure (no
solar panels)(no thermal requirements for space environ)(perhaps less radiation hardening) 7) Use batteries for stand-alone operation (recharged from ISS power) 8) Control commanded from ground (no intervention required by astronauts) 9) Local access for use of astronaut-hams 10) Provide emergency back-up comms for ISS (perhaps with a separate FM channel) 11) (perhaps) Use of existing ham-radio handheld on ISS on low-power to dedicated receiver which would activate astronaut repeater channel. 12) This FM channel could be used as FM ham repeater when not in use by astronauts (means world-wide monitoring for the astronauts as well as normal Leo FM activity) 13) Modular design for future upgrades and/or repair (easy installation by astronauts-plug*n*play) 14) Segmented pass-band to allow packet/APRS digipeating 15) Transmitters able to be shut down for eva and other critical missions either locally on ISS or from ground. 16) Perhaps a special Rx/Tx on ISS eva channel for cross-band repeat in event of loss of atmosphere emergency (help to sell the concept to NASA as a comms back-up). 17) No need for orientation (spin or de-spin), rad hardening, thermal structures (air-cooled), no propulsion, no launch requirements. 18) Easily maintained by supply from ground (repairs or upgrades). 19) Long-Life
Re-direct of either Fox or P3E efforts? (no launch requirement-rides as cargo to ISS)
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Ed, KL7UW
Your proposal (ARISS on ISS) is so clear that I cannot understand why some AMSAT, VP Engineers do not completely agree with you.
Following their answere to you they seems to be more lawyers than engineers.
You are right Ed when you writes..............
"If Fox or P3E sit on the shelf for 5-10 years for lack of a launch maybe better redirected for ISS. Not my call, obviously."
PS: some of us are getting old and may not still be here in 10-years?
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward R. Cole" kl7uw@acsalaska.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:54 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] A Proposal for ARISS
After posting some thoughts a few days ago (RE: ISS, what the heck happened?), I have given the idea more consideration.
Proposal (ARISS on ISS):
- Install a 100-KHz transponder unit on ISS, with usual digital
beacon/engineering 2) It would run mode-UV 3) Installed internally in the ISS 4) Replace most of the current ISS ham radio equipment 5) Could be considered an upgrade/improvement to the existing ham radio on ISS 6) Use ISS power and existing ham radio antenna infrastructure (no solar panels)(no thermal requirements for space environ)(perhaps less radiation hardening) 7) Use batteries for stand-alone operation (recharged from ISS power) 8) Control commanded from ground (no intervention required by astronauts) 9) Local access for use of astronaut-hams 10) Provide emergency back-up comms for ISS (perhaps with a separate FM channel) 11) (perhaps) Use of existing ham-radio handheld on ISS on low-power to dedicated receiver which would activate astronaut repeater channel. 12) This FM channel could be used as FM ham repeater when not in use by astronauts (means world-wide monitoring for the astronauts as well as normal Leo FM activity) 13) Modular design for future upgrades and/or repair (easy installation by astronauts-plug*n*play) 14) Segmented pass-band to allow packet/APRS digipeating 15) Transmitters able to be shut down for eva and other critical missions either locally on ISS or from ground. 16) Perhaps a special Rx/Tx on ISS eva channel for cross-band repeat in event of loss of atmosphere emergency (help to sell the concept to NASA as a comms back-up). 17) No need for orientation (spin or de-spin), rad hardening, thermal structures (air-cooled), no propulsion, no launch requirements. 18) Easily maintained by supply from ground (repairs or upgrades). 19) Long-Life
Re-direct of either Fox or P3E efforts? (no launch requirement-rides as cargo to ISS)
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@gmail.com ======================================
participants (8)
-
Anthony Monteiro -
Dee -
Edward R. Cole -
g0mrf＠aol.com -
i8cvs -
Jim Jerzycke -
jmfranke -
JoAnne Maenpaa