My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is nasty and it's tearing us apart.
With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes clear.
The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail. Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is over.
My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them?
To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members, a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes. Let's see what happens!
73, John K8YSE
Thank you for sharing your feelings about this.
I strongly disagree that this is some sort of "war".
After being elected in 2019, Patrick and I were simply not allowed to participate. We were denied access to corporate communications and records. This was done by the majority members of the board, starting the day the results were announced. Some of these problems continue to the present day.
Some of the people that did this are running for another term. When elected representatives refuse to even meet with people that think differently than they do, then something is very wrong. Refusing to hold board meetings hurts AMSAT. The organization doesn't run itself.
Patrick and I have zero power and have caused zero harm. The only thing we've brought to the party is sunlight.
"please elect people that will allow regular AMSAT board meetings" and "please elect people that will not spend member money on secretly hired law firms" is all we are asking for from the membership. This is not the equivalent of "warfare". These things aren't even that controversial. We just want to do our jobs. We need your help.
I am very sorry it's an uncomfortable subject. I honestly do not think you would have preferred us to hide it for another year. I don't think you would want all of us to do completely nothing for month after month because the majority simply picked up the ball and walked off the field.
That's not a war. That's a forfeit.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:40 PM john--- via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is nasty and it's tearing us apart.
With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes clear.
The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail. Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is over.
My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them?
To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members, a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes. Let's see what happens!
73, John K8YSE _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
John,
It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in the two cases.
73,
Alan WA4SCA
<-----Original Message----- <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of john--- via <AMSAT-BB <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM <To: [email protected] <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is <nasty and it's tearing us apart. < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes <clear. < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail. <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away. < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is <over. < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them.. < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them? < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members, <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to <the candidates to come up with their own ideas. < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes. < Let's see what happens! < <73, John K8YSE <_______________________________________________ <Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
That is true.
It’s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a minority of the Directors, and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders isn’t a hostile takeover. It’s just plain hostile.
Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
Unlike other things that we do, this isn’t rocket science.
A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an asset to the corporation.
Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
John,
It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in the two cases.
73,
Alan WA4SCA
<-----Original Message----- <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of john--- via <AMSAT-BB <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM <To: [email protected] <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is <nasty and it's tearing us apart. < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes <clear. < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail. <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away. < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is <over. < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them.. < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them? < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members, <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to <the candidates to come up with their own ideas. < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes. < Let's see what happens! < <73, John K8YSE <_______________________________________________ <Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Michelle,
Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual motivations. A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target. :)
73,
Alan WA4SCA
------------------------------------- You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
<-----Original Message----- <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected]] <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM <To: [email protected]; Alan [email protected] <Cc: [email protected] <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < <That is true. < <It’s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a minority of the Directors, <and when company assets are used for personal reasons. < <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders isn’t a hostile <takeover. It’s just plain hostile. < <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive. < <Unlike other things that we do, this isn’t rocket science. < <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an asset to the <corporation. < <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect. < <-Michelle W5NYV < <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] <mailto:amsat- [email protected] > wrote: < < < John, < < It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather < than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than < money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in < looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in < the two cases. < < 73, < < Alan < WA4SCA < < < < < <-----Original Message----- < <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:amsat-bb- [email protected] ] On Behalf Of john--- via < <AMSAT-BB < <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM < <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] < <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < < < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on < <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is < <nasty and it's tearing us apart. < < < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine < <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any < <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes < <clear. < < < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members < <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail. < <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away. < < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not < <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is < <over. < < < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did < <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the < <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other < <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of < <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board < <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote < <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's < <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person < <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and < <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them.. < < < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He < <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT < <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good < <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the < <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them? < < < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our < <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement < <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members, < <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting < <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal < <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how < <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But < <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to < <the candidates to come up with their own ideas. < < < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to < <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that < <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school < <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able < <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with < <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes. < < Let's see what happens! < < < <73, John K8YSE < <_______________________________________________ < <Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions < expressed < <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of < AMSAT-NA. < <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < _______________________________________________ < Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions <expressed < are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. < Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < <-- < <-Michelle W5NYV < < <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis." <
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes one of us look bad... and it isn’t me.
Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them out without anyone getting bothered.
The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member society. If you are out there, we need your help.
Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for everyone.
Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
-mdt
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Michelle,
Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual motivations. A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target. :)
73,
Alan WA4SCA
You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
<-----Original Message----- <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected]] <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM <To: [email protected]; Alan [email protected] <Cc: [email protected] <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < <That is true. < <It’s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a minority of the Directors, <and when company assets are used for personal reasons. < <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders isn’t a hostile <takeover. It’s just plain hostile. < <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive. < <Unlike other things that we do, this isn’t rocket science. < <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an asset to the <corporation. < <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect. < <-Michelle W5NYV < <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] <mailto:amsat- [email protected] > wrote: < < < John, < < It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather < than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than < money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in < looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in < the two cases. < < 73, < < Alan < WA4SCA < < < < < <-----Original Message----- < <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected] <mailto: amsat-bb- [email protected] ] On Behalf Of john--- via < <AMSAT-BB < <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM < <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] < <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < < < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on < <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is < <nasty and it's tearing us apart. < < < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine < <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any < <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes < <clear. < < < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members < <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail. < <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away. < < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not < <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is < <over. < < < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did < <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the < <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other < <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of < <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board < <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote < <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's < <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person < <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and < <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them.. < < < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He < <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT < <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good < <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the < <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them? < < < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our < <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement < <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members, < <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting < <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal < <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how < <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But < <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to < <the candidates to come up with their own ideas. < < < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to < <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that < <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school < <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able < <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with < <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes. < < Let's see what happens! < < < <73, John K8YSE < <_______________________________________________ < <Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions < expressed < <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of < AMSAT-NA. < <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < _______________________________________________ < Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions <expressed < are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. < Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < <-- < <-Michelle W5NYV < < <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis." <
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Michelle,
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes one of us look bad... and it isn’t me.
You are probably one of only two people on this list who could possibly twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim. Given the complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and healthful day.
73,
Alan WA4SCA
From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM To: [email protected]; Alan [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes one of us look bad... and it isn’t me.
Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them out without anyone getting bothered.
The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member society. If you are out there, we need your help.
Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for everyone.
Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
-mdt
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > wrote: Michelle,
Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual motivations. A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target. :)
73,
Alan WA4SCA
------------------------------------- You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
<-----Original Message----- <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] ] <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] ; Alan <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > <Cc: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < <That is true. < <It’s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a minority of the Directors, <and when company assets are used for personal reasons. < <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders isn’t a hostile <takeover. It’s just plain hostile. < <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive. < <Unlike other things that we do, this isn’t rocket science. < <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an asset to the <corporation. < <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect. < <-Michelle W5NYV < <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto:amsat- mailto:amsat- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > wrote: < < < John, < < It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather < than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than < money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in < looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in < the two cases. < < 73, < < Alan < WA4SCA < < < < < <-----Original Message----- < <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto:amsat-bb- mailto:amsat-bb- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > ] On Behalf Of john--- via < <AMSAT-BB < <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM < <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > < <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < < < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on < <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is < <nasty and it's tearing us apart. < < < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine < <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any < <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes < <clear. < < < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members < <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail. < <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away. < < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not < <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is < <over. < < < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did < <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the < <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other < <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of < <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board < <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote < <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's < <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person < <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and < <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them.. < < < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He < <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT < <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good < <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the < <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them? < < < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our < <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement < <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members, < <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting < <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal < <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how < <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But < <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to < <the candidates to come up with their own ideas. < < < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to < <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that < <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school < <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able < <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with < <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes. < < Let's see what happens! < < < <73, John K8YSE < <_______________________________________________ < <Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions < expressed < <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of < AMSAT-NA. < <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < _______________________________________________ < Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions <expressed < are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. < Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < <-- < <-Michelle W5NYV < < <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis." <
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found "No-Code International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide. We appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby their IARU vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of the hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although there were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to the Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he very graciously made up after the decision was made.
Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an election as that is truly ludicrous.
If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the issue over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward AMSAT.
But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline, please vote for these candidates:
Bob McGwier N4HY Howie DeFelice AB2S Jeff Johns WE4B
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Michelle,
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes one of
us look bad... and it isn’t me.
You are probably one of only two people on this list who could possibly twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim. Given the complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and healthful day.
73,
Alan WA4SCA
From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM To: [email protected]; Alan [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes one of us look bad... and it isn’t me.
Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them out without anyone getting bothered.
The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member society. If you are out there, we need your help.
Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for everyone.
Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
-mdt
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > wrote: Michelle,
Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual motivations. A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target. :)
73,
Alan WA4SCA
You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
<-----Original Message----- <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected] mailto: [email protected] ] <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] ; Alan < [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > <Cc: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < <That is true. < <It’s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a minority of the Directors, <and when company assets are used for personal reasons. < <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders isn’t a hostile <takeover. It’s just plain hostile. < <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive. < <Unlike other things that we do, this isn’t rocket science. < <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an asset to the <corporation. < <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect. < <-Michelle W5NYV < <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto:amsat- mailto:amsat- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > wrote: < < < John, < < It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather < than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than < money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in < looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in < the two cases. < < 73, < < Alan < WA4SCA < < < < < <-----Original Message----- < <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected] mailto: [email protected] <mailto:amsat-bb- mailto:amsat-bb- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > ] On Behalf Of john--- via < <AMSAT-BB < <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM < <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > < <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < < < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on < <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is < <nasty and it's tearing us apart. < < < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine < <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any < <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes < <clear. < < < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members < <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail. < <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away. < < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not < <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is < <over. < < < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did < <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the < <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other < <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of < <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board < <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote < <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's < <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person < <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and < <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them.. < < < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He < <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT < <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good < <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the < <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them? < < < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our < <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement < <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members, < <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting < <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal < <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how < <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But < <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to < <the candidates to come up with their own ideas. < < < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to < <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that < <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school < <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able < <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with < <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes. < < Let's see what happens! < < < <73, John K8YSE < <_______________________________________________ < <Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions < expressed < <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of < AMSAT-NA. < <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < _______________________________________________ < Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions <expressed < are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. < Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < <-- < <-Michelle W5NYV < < <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis." <
Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- -Michelle W5NYV "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bruce,
I think your descent into mediocrity assessment is baseless and your statement:"We will work on the issue over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward AMSAT." speaks absolute volumes. It actually gives credence to those that are saying some are coming into the organization to "take it over" amongst other things. It also shows a general lack of knowledge and understanding of all the things AMSAT has been up to and the time / work that it takes. It also tells everyone on the -bb about your loose commitment to the real success of AMSAT, when you're willing to just "go do it with someone else". That's not commitment, that's having one foot out the door. No doubt, this attitude is reflected in your choice of candidates.
I (and I think many others on the -bb) are tired of vile blog posts and I am personally, not supportive of seeing LinkedIn posts badgering AMSAT publically... vs taking up issues as professionals within the organization. I am still dumbfounded by the stuff I saw posted on LinkedIn... It shows a general lack of professionalism and in my opinion is likely a symptom of larger, more-substantial interpersonal issues that people are bringing to the table, that likely are the root-cause of a lot of the "doesn't work well with people" stuff that's been stated on here.
The term Loose Cannon comes to mind, or, bad apples spoil the bunch.
I mean, if you really think the organization is that bad, do yourself a favor and leave it alone. Be the bigger person Bruce, take your team that has a proven track record and run with it. You can be this generations Elon of amateur radio in space! Why let AMSAT slow you down?
The constant badgering and harassment of members and directors that actually have a track-record, is beyond me. What AMSAT needs is to maintain the people with a Proven Track Record Of Getting Things Done, not those with a documented track record of whining, complaining and making empty promises without substance.
Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer, just got my vote.
Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO (renewed!)
Joseph Armbruster
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found "No-Code International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide. We appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby their IARU vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of the hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although there were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to the Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he very graciously made up after the decision was made.
Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an election as that is truly ludicrous.
If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the issue over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward AMSAT.
But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline, please vote for these candidates:
Bob McGwier N4HY Howie DeFelice AB2S Jeff Johns WE4B
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Michelle,
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes one of
us look bad... and it isn’t me.
You are probably one of only two people on this list who could possibly twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim. Given the complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and healthful day.
73,
Alan WA4SCA
From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM To: [email protected]; Alan [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes one of us look bad... and it isn’t me.
Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them out without anyone getting bothered.
The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member society. If you are out there, we need your help.
Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for everyone.
Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
-mdt
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > wrote: Michelle,
Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual motivations. A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target. :)
73,
Alan WA4SCA
You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
<-----Original Message----- <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected] mailto: [email protected] ] <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] ; Alan < [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > <Cc: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < <That is true. < <It’s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a minority of the Directors, <and when company assets are used for personal reasons. < <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders isn’t a hostile <takeover. It’s just plain hostile. < <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive. < <Unlike other things that we do, this isn’t rocket science. < <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an asset to the <corporation. < <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect. < <-Michelle W5NYV < <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto:amsat- mailto:amsat- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > wrote: < < < John, < < It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather < than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than < money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in < looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in < the two cases. < < 73, < < Alan < WA4SCA < < < < < <-----Original Message----- < <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected] mailto: [email protected] <mailto:amsat-bb- mailto:amsat-bb- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > ] On Behalf Of john--- via < <AMSAT-BB < <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM < <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > < <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < < < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on < <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is < <nasty and it's tearing us apart. < < < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine < <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any < <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes < <clear. < < < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members < <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail. < <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away. < < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not < <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is < <over. < < < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did < <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the < <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other < <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of < <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board < <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote < <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's < <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person < <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and < <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them.. < < < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He < <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT < <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good < <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the < <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them? < < < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our < <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement < <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members, < <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting < <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal < <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how < <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But < <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to < <the candidates to come up with their own ideas. < < < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to < <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that < <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school < <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able < <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with < <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes. < < Let's see what happens! < < < <73, John K8YSE < <_______________________________________________ < <Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions < expressed < <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of < AMSAT-NA. < <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < _______________________________________________ < Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions <expressed < are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. < Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < <-- < <-Michelle W5NYV < < <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis." <
Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- -Michelle W5NYV "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Joseph,
What I posted on LinkedIn, where I know I have a following of hams, was the election flyer I also put up at http://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
Of course I also ran it on Twitter, QRZ, and others have reposted it to additional venues.
This is election campaign material. It really boggles the mind that people take exception to election campaign material posted in locations where members who do not subscribe to the BB might read it. And you consider it embarrassing.
I submit that this is authoritarian thinking. The very implication to others that an incumbent is accused of running the organization improperly must be kept within closed doors and never shown to others. We must suppress the appearance of dissent and publicly support the authorities.
This follows what I said before about people taking opposition as evil, unprofessional, etc. Campaigning is a basic part of democracy, and yes it gets aggressive sometimes.
ORI is an AMSAT member organization which we created because we couldn't get the work done at AMSAT. If it continues to be the case that we can't get the work done at AMSAT, obviously we are not going to take that as a direction to abandon the work. Carrying it out within ORI would be necessary.
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:03 AM Joseph Armbruster [email protected] wrote:
Bruce,
I think your descent into mediocrity assessment is baseless and your statement:"We will work on the issue over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward AMSAT." speaks absolute volumes. It actually gives credence to those that are saying some are coming into the organization to "take it over" amongst other things. It also shows a general lack of knowledge and understanding of all the things AMSAT has been up to and the time / work that it takes. It also tells everyone on the -bb about your loose commitment to the real success of AMSAT, when you're willing to just "go do it with someone else". That's not commitment, that's having one foot out the door. No doubt, this attitude is reflected in your choice of candidates.
I (and I think many others on the -bb) are tired of vile blog posts and I am personally, not supportive of seeing LinkedIn posts badgering AMSAT publically... vs taking up issues as professionals within the organization. I am still dumbfounded by the stuff I saw posted on LinkedIn... It shows a general lack of professionalism and in my opinion is likely a symptom of larger, more-substantial interpersonal issues that people are bringing to the table, that likely are the root-cause of a lot of the "doesn't work well with people" stuff that's been stated on here.
The term Loose Cannon comes to mind, or, bad apples spoil the bunch.
I mean, if you really think the organization is that bad, do yourself a favor and leave it alone. Be the bigger person Bruce, take your team that has a proven track record and run with it. You can be this generations Elon of amateur radio in space! Why let AMSAT slow you down?
The constant badgering and harassment of members and directors that actually have a track-record, is beyond me. What AMSAT needs is to maintain the people with a Proven Track Record Of Getting Things Done, not those with a documented track record of whining, complaining and making empty promises without substance.
Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer, just got my vote.
Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO (renewed!)
Joseph Armbruster
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found "No-Code International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide. We appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby their
IARU
vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of the hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although there were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to the Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he very graciously made up after the decision was made.
Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an election as that is truly ludicrous.
If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the issue over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward
AMSAT.
But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline, please vote for these candidates:
Bob McGwier N4HY Howie DeFelice AB2S Jeff Johns WE4B
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB [email protected]
wrote:
Michelle,
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes one
of
us look bad... and it isn’t me.
You are probably one of only two people on this list who could possibly twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim. Given the complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and
healthful
day.
73,
Alan WA4SCA
From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM To: [email protected]; Alan [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes one
of us
look bad... and it isn’t me.
Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them
out
without anyone getting bothered.
The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member
society. If
you are out there, we need your help.
Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for everyone.
Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
-mdt
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > wrote: Michelle,
Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual motivations. A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen,
or
perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target. :)
73,
Alan WA4SCA
You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
<-----Original Message----- <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected] mailto: [email protected] ] <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] ; Alan < [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > <Cc: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < <That is true. < <It’s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a minority of the Directors, <and when company assets are used for personal reasons. < <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected
leaders
isn’t a hostile <takeover. It’s just plain hostile. < <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive. < <Unlike other things that we do, this isn’t rocket science. < <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not
an
asset to the <corporation. < <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect. < <-Michelle W5NYV < <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto:amsat- mailto:amsat- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > wrote: < < < John, < < It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather < than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than < money. That is important when understanding the tools being
used,
and in < looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in < the two cases. < < 73, < < Alan < WA4SCA < < < < < <-----Original Message----- < <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected] mailto: [email protected] <mailto:amsat-bb- mailto:amsat-bb- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > ] On Behalf Of
john--- via
< <AMSAT-BB < <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM < <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > < <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < < < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on < <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And
it is
< <nasty and it's tearing us apart. < < < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine < <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have
any
< <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes < <clear. < < < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members < <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the
mail.
< <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem
will
go away. < < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not < <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is < <over. < < < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday.
And
so did < <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read
the
< <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on
other
< <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about
some
of < <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board < <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third
vote
< <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's < <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The
same
person < <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some
helpful
and < <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them.. < < < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote
for. He
< <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts
with
AMSAT < <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good < <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues
does
the < <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal
with
them? < < < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our < <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement < <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for
all
members, < <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting < <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with
fiscal
< <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how < <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of
working.
But < <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I
will
defer to < <the candidates to come up with their own ideas. < < < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a
plan
to < <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things
that
< <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high
school
< <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you
should be
able < <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with < <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting
their
votes. < < Let's see what happens! < < < <73, John K8YSE < <_______________________________________________ < <Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:
[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
Opinions < expressed < <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official
views of < AMSAT-NA. < <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
program! < <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < _______________________________________________ < Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:
[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
Opinions <expressed < are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. < Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
program! < Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < <-- < <-Michelle W5NYV < < <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis." <
Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] . AMSAT-NA
makes
this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-Michelle W5NYV "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bruce,
I was referring to all the "report to members" stuff I saw on LinkedIn a while back, not election material. I was on LinkedIn one day and I was absolutely dumbfounded at some of the stuff that was posted.
All 'member organization', or Member Society means is, you have an organization and you paid a little more money for the membership (from what I can gather from the bylaws). It doesn't imply any special kind of relationship. I could join a club tomorrow and we could click the "Join Now" button, pay the fee and become a 'member organization' also. Why would you create a member society to get the work of the organization itself done... that makes Negative sense... Why not "Just do it" through your own?
What work Couldn't you get done with AMSAT, specifically?
Joseph Armbruster
Joseph Armbruster
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens [email protected] wrote:
Joseph,
What I posted on LinkedIn, where I know I have a following of hams, was the election flyer I also put up at http://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
Of course I also ran it on Twitter, QRZ, and others have reposted it to additional venues.
This is election campaign material. It really boggles the mind that people take exception to election campaign material posted in locations where members who do not subscribe to the BB might read it. And you consider it embarrassing.
I submit that this is authoritarian thinking. The very implication to others that an incumbent is accused of running the organization improperly must be kept within closed doors and never shown to others. We must suppress the appearance of dissent and publicly support the authorities.
This follows what I said before about people taking opposition as evil, unprofessional, etc. Campaigning is a basic part of democracy, and yes it gets aggressive sometimes.
ORI is an AMSAT member organization which we created because we couldn't get the work done at AMSAT. If it continues to be the case that we can't get the work done at AMSAT, obviously we are not going to take that as a direction to abandon the work. Carrying it out within ORI would be necessary.
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:03 AM Joseph Armbruster [email protected] wrote:
Bruce,
I think your descent into mediocrity assessment is baseless and your statement:"We will work on the issue over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward AMSAT." speaks absolute volumes. It actually gives credence to those that are saying some are coming into the organization to "take it over" amongst other things. It also shows a general lack of knowledge and understanding of all the things AMSAT has been up to and the time / work that it takes. It also tells everyone on the -bb about your loose commitment to the real success of AMSAT, when you're willing to just "go do it with someone else". That's not commitment, that's having one foot out the door. No doubt, this attitude is reflected in your choice of candidates.
I (and I think many others on the -bb) are tired of vile blog posts and I am personally, not supportive of seeing LinkedIn posts badgering AMSAT publically... vs taking up issues as professionals within the organization. I am still dumbfounded by the stuff I saw posted on LinkedIn... It shows a general lack of professionalism and in my opinion is likely a symptom of larger, more-substantial interpersonal issues that people are bringing to the table, that likely are the root-cause of a lot of the "doesn't work well with people" stuff that's been stated on here.
The term Loose Cannon comes to mind, or, bad apples spoil the bunch.
I mean, if you really think the organization is that bad, do yourself a favor and leave it alone. Be the bigger person Bruce, take your team that has a proven track record and run with it. You can be this generations Elon of amateur radio in space! Why let AMSAT slow you down?
The constant badgering and harassment of members and directors that actually have a track-record, is beyond me. What AMSAT needs is to maintain the people with a Proven Track Record Of Getting Things Done, not those with a documented track record of whining, complaining and making empty promises without substance.
Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer, just got my vote.
Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO (renewed!)
Joseph Armbruster
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found "No-Code International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide. We appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby their IARU vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of the hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although there were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to the Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he very graciously made up after the decision was made.
Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an election as that is truly ludicrous.
If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the issue over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward AMSAT.
But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline, please vote for these candidates:
Bob McGwier N4HY Howie DeFelice AB2S Jeff Johns WE4B
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Michelle,
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes one of
us look bad... and it isn’t me.
You are probably one of only two people on this list who could possibly twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim. Given the complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and healthful day.
73,
Alan WA4SCA
From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM To: [email protected]; Alan [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes one of us look bad... and it isn’t me.
Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them out without anyone getting bothered.
The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member society. If you are out there, we need your help.
Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for everyone.
Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
-mdt
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > wrote: Michelle,
Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual motivations. A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target. :)
73,
Alan WA4SCA
You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
<-----Original Message----- <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected] mailto: [email protected] ] <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] ; Alan < [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > <Cc: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < <That is true. < <It’s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a minority of the Directors, <and when company assets are used for personal reasons. < <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders isn’t a hostile <takeover. It’s just plain hostile. < <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive. < <Unlike other things that we do, this isn’t rocket science. < <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an asset to the <corporation. < <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect. < <-Michelle W5NYV < <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto:amsat- mailto:amsat- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > wrote: < < < John, < < It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather < than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than < money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in < looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in < the two cases. < < 73, < < Alan < WA4SCA < < < < < <-----Original Message----- < <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected] mailto: [email protected] <mailto:amsat-bb- mailto:amsat-bb- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > ] On Behalf Of john--- via < <AMSAT-BB < <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM < <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > < <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < < < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on < <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is < <nasty and it's tearing us apart. < < < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine < <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any < <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes < <clear. < < < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members < <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail. < <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away. < < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not < <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is < <over. < < < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did < <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the < <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other < <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of < <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board < <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote < <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's < <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person < <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and < <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them.. < < < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He < <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT < <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good < <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the < <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them? < < < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our < <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement < <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members, < <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting < <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal < <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how < <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But < <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to < <the candidates to come up with their own ideas. < < < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to < <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that < <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school < <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able < <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with < <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes. < < Let's see what happens! < < < <73, John K8YSE < <_______________________________________________ < <Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions < expressed < <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of < AMSAT-NA. < <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < _______________________________________________ < Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <mailto: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions <expressed < are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. < Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! < Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < <-- < <-Michelle W5NYV < < <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis." <
Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- -Michelle W5NYV "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Joseph,
I went through my LinkedIn activity, and couldn't find what you were talking about. It is however true that I have publicly been very critical of AMSAT management, a crime I share with three candidates and apparently something that can subject you to legal action!
As you know, I was recently sued for my speech, in a classic SLAPP lawsuit, and I stuck with the case rather than bowing to intimidation and removing my speech from the internet. This ended with the plaintiff paying $300,000 for my defense. I take exception to AMSAT's legal action against Michelle in Patrick for their speech, and your making what seem to be anti-speech appeals here. I don't know what posting you are objecting to, or even who wrote it. But it sounds like an attempt to suppress speech to me.
ORI was formed to carry on the Phase 4 Ground project. It's mission has expanded considerably since then.
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:38 AM Joseph Armbruster [email protected] wrote:
Bruce,
I was referring to all the "report to members" stuff I saw on LinkedIn a while back, not election material. I was on LinkedIn one day and I was absolutely dumbfounded at some of the stuff that was posted.
All 'member organization', or Member Society means is, you have an organization and you paid a little more money for the membership (from what I can gather from the bylaws). It doesn't imply any special kind of relationship. I could join a club tomorrow and we could click the "Join Now" button, pay the fee and become a 'member organization' also. Why would you create a member society to get the work of the organization itself done... that makes Negative sense... Why not "Just do it" through your own?
What work Couldn't you get done with AMSAT, specifically?
Joseph Armbruster
Joseph Armbruster
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens [email protected] wrote:
Joseph,
What I posted on LinkedIn, where I know I have a following of hams, was
the election flyer I also put up at http://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
Of course I also ran it on Twitter, QRZ, and others have reposted it to
additional venues.
This is election campaign material. It really boggles the mind that
people take exception to election campaign material posted in locations where members who do not subscribe to the BB might read it. And you consider it embarrassing.
I submit that this is authoritarian thinking. The very implication to
others that an incumbent is accused of running the organization improperly must be kept within closed doors and never shown to others. We must suppress the appearance of dissent and publicly support the authorities.
This follows what I said before about people taking opposition as evil,
unprofessional, etc. Campaigning is a basic part of democracy, and yes it gets aggressive sometimes.
ORI is an AMSAT member organization which we created because we couldn't
get the work done at AMSAT. If it continues to be the case that we can't get the work done at AMSAT, obviously we are not going to take that as a direction to abandon the work. Carrying it out within ORI would be necessary.
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:03 AM Joseph Armbruster <
[email protected]> wrote:
Bruce,
I think your descent into mediocrity assessment is baseless and your statement:"We will work on the issue over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward AMSAT." speaks absolute volumes. It actually gives credence to those that are saying some are coming into the organization to "take it over" amongst other things. It also shows a general lack of knowledge and understanding of all the things AMSAT has been up to and the time / work that it takes. It also tells everyone on the -bb about your loose commitment to the real success of AMSAT, when you're willing to just "go do it with someone else". That's not commitment, that's having one foot out the door. No doubt, this attitude is reflected in your choice of candidates.
I (and I think many others on the -bb) are tired of vile blog posts and I am personally, not supportive of seeing LinkedIn posts badgering AMSAT publically... vs taking up issues as professionals within the organization. I am still dumbfounded by the stuff I saw posted on LinkedIn... It shows a general lack of professionalism and in my opinion is likely a symptom of larger, more-substantial interpersonal issues that people are bringing to the table, that likely are the root-cause of a lot of the "doesn't work well with people" stuff that's been stated on here.
The term Loose Cannon comes to mind, or, bad apples spoil the bunch.
I mean, if you really think the organization is that bad, do yourself a favor and leave it alone. Be the bigger person Bruce, take your team that has a proven track record and run with it. You can be this generations Elon of amateur radio in space! Why let AMSAT slow you down?
The constant badgering and harassment of members and directors that actually have a track-record, is beyond me. What AMSAT needs is to maintain the people with a Proven Track Record Of Getting Things Done, not those with a documented track record of whining, complaining and making empty promises without substance.
Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer, just got my vote.
Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO (renewed!)
Joseph Armbruster
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found
"No-Code
International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide.
We
appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby
their IARU
vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of
the
hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although
there
were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to
the
Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he
very
graciously made up after the decision was made.
Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an election as that is truly ludicrous.
If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the
issue
over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we
continue to
get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward
AMSAT.
But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline, please vote for these candidates:
Bob McGwier N4HY Howie DeFelice AB2S Jeff Johns WE4B
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB [email protected]
wrote:
Michelle,
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes
one of
us look bad... and it isn’t me.
You are probably one of only two people on this list who could
possibly
twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim. Given
the
complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and
healthful
day.
73,
Alan WA4SCA
From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM To: [email protected]; Alan [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
Describing me publicly as a “target” that you want to bomb makes
one of us
look bad... and it isn’t me.
Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight
have
been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of
them out
without anyone getting bothered.
The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member
society. If
you are out there, we need your help.
Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement
for
everyone.
Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
-mdt
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > wrote: Michelle,
Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual motivations. A lightning response consisting of a dense
smokescreen, or
perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target. :)
73,
Alan WA4SCA
You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
<-----Original Message----- <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:
[email protected]> ] <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] ; Alan < [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > <Cc: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider. < <That is true. < <It’s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a minority of the Directors, <and when company assets are used for personal reasons. < <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected
leaders
isn’t a hostile <takeover. It’s just plain hostile. < <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive. < <Unlike other things that we do, this isn’t rocket science. < <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is
not an
asset to the <corporation. < <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect. < <-Michelle W5NYV < <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <
mailto:[email protected] <mailto:amsat- mailto:amsat- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > wrote: < < < John, < < It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather < than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and
ideology
rather than < money. That is important when understanding the tools being
used,
and in < looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are
somewhat
different in < the two cases. < < 73, < < Alan < WA4SCA < < < < < <-----Original Message----- < <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected] mailto: [email protected] <mailto:amsat-bb- mailto:amsat-bb- <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > ] On Behalf Of
john--- via
< <AMSAT-BB < <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM < <To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:
[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > < <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what?
Something to
consider. < < < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago,
"What is
going on < <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war.
And it is
< <nasty and it's tearing us apart. < < < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is
hard to
determine < <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to
have any
< <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real
issues
becomes < <clear. < < < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago
when
members < <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in
the mail.
< <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem
will
go away. < < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and
Michelle
are not < <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is < <over. < < < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived
yesterday. And
so did < <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I
read the
< <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments
on other
< <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked
about some
of < <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular
Board
< <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the
third vote
< <required to demand General Board meetings be held
regularly!
That's < <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements.
The same
person < <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some
helpful
and < <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them.. < < < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote
for. He
< <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past
efforts with
AMSAT < <along with comments about personal interactions, if any.
Those
are good < <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues
does
the < <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to
deal with
them? < < < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way
to
bring our < <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement < <with all parties that will restore civility and respect
for all
members, < <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting < <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with
fiscal
< <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how < <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of
working.
But < <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I
will
defer to < <the candidates to come up with their own ideas. < < < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail
a plan
to < <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are
things that
< <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high
school
< <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you
should be
able < <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with < <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting
their
votes. < < Let's see what happens! < < < <73, John K8YSE < <_______________________________________________ < <Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:
[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
Opinions < expressed < <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official
views of < AMSAT-NA. < <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
program! < <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < _______________________________________________ < Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:
[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > . AMSAT-NA <makes this open forum available < to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
Opinions <expressed < are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official
views of AMSAT-NA. < Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
program! < Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < <-- < <-Michelle W5NYV < < <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis." <
Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected] . AMSAT-NA
makes
this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
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-- -Michelle W5NYV "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
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Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
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are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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participants (5)
-
Alan -
Bruce Perens -
john＠papays.com -
Joseph Armbruster -
Michelle Thompson