Use of "veronica" beacons on wikipedia
I recorded some very high quality beacons for AO-95, and was hoping to put them in wiki commons for inclusion on the AO-95 wikipedia page. However before doing so you are warned about copyrighted material and I realize that uploading that recording is likely no different than uploading anybody else's musical or spoken word work.
I also took a screen grab of the waterfall showing the characteristic "fox tail", which I believe is free and clear - and I checked the AMSAT website regarding copyrighted material and it only mentions audio used on the AMSAT website (I think).
Anyhoo, can I get written permission to post beacon recordings to wiki commons (wikipedia)? Do I need to go through the website form (it doesn't really to "work" for recorded audio, only images) If not, no biggie.
Happy Thanksgiving, all!
--Roy K3RLD
I’m in favor. I cannot think of a reason why it shouldn’t be on Wikipedia and in wiki commons.
I will ask the rest of the board today.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 08:20 Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I recorded some very high quality beacons for AO-95, and was hoping to put them in wiki commons for inclusion on the AO-95 wikipedia page. However before doing so you are warned about copyrighted material and I realize that uploading that recording is likely no different than uploading anybody else's musical or spoken word work.
I also took a screen grab of the waterfall showing the characteristic "fox tail", which I believe is free and clear - and I checked the AMSAT website regarding copyrighted material and it only mentions audio used on the AMSAT website (I think).
Anyhoo, can I get written permission to post beacon recordings to wiki commons (wikipedia)? Do I need to go through the website form (it doesn't really to "work" for recorded audio, only images) If not, no biggie.
Happy Thanksgiving, all!
--Roy K3RLD _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Roy,
This is an interesting subject which triggers some questions:
Is telemetry or beacon of satellites subject to copyright?
As far as I know none have a copyright warning, more many records and TLM are circulated openly on many sites or forums.
Any lawyer in the community who may advise?
Regards
Jean Marc
On Nov 29, 2019, at 2:56 AM, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I’m in favor. I cannot think of a reason why it shouldn’t be on Wikipedia and in wiki commons.
I will ask the rest of the board today.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 08:20 Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I recorded some very high quality beacons for AO-95, and was hoping to put them in wiki commons for inclusion on the AO-95 wikipedia page. However before doing so you are warned about copyrighted material and I realize that uploading that recording is likely no different than uploading anybody else's musical or spoken word work.
I also took a screen grab of the waterfall showing the characteristic "fox tail", which I believe is free and clear - and I checked the AMSAT website regarding copyrighted material and it only mentions audio used on the AMSAT website (I think).
Anyhoo, can I get written permission to post beacon recordings to wiki commons (wikipedia)? Do I need to go through the website form (it doesn't really to "work" for recorded audio, only images) If not, no biggie.
Happy Thanksgiving, all!
--Roy K3RLD _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- -Michelle W5NYV
"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis." _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I'm not a Intellectual Property attorney, but in my area(s) of practice: business and corporate law, I have to understand what protections my clients can gain and the limits of those protections. The very basics of copyright include three requirements: that it be a work of authorship, that it must be an original work, and that it must be fixed in a tangible medium of expression. If it lacks one of these three elements, there is no right of protection.
From my point of view, the beacon itself fails at least one, if not all
three tests. Failing one is enough
And if we want to look to musical copyright cases, it becomes even harder to fathom a copyright in a beacon since courts have held that rhythm and harmony (what a beacon would be to my ear) are not “original,”and thus in the public domain, while melody is often determined to be “original” and protected by copyright. But of course this requires that there be an actual composition and an author of that composition (and a performance by an artist.) I'd consider a beacon to fail all those tests as well.
One can also look to terrestrial radio stations for more of an idea of why copyright isn't going to attach to a beacon transmission. One has educational use rights to radio broadcasts (the songs are a different issue) but one has to attribute the performance to the performer. If there is no human performer....
I've long considered the informational publications produced by the USPO to be really good sources of information for understanding the basics without having to wade through volumes of statutes, but they don't necessary do a good job of pulling it all together, or covering the nuanced bits that naturally are a part of law. It reminds me of a joke about lawyer bills: How do you know when a lawyer's bill is going to be high? When you ask him a question and he starts his answer with "It depends...."
I think that Brennan would agree with most if not all my analysis, and with my ultimate conclusion as well. Hopefully he will chime in officially and put the question to rest by stating whether or not AMSAT can and wants to claim copyright because it obtained a copyright from an author of the beacon....
73, Grant Hopper KB7WSD
On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 10:22 PM Jean Marc Momple via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Roy,
This is an interesting subject which triggers some questions:
Is telemetry or beacon of satellites subject to copyright?
As far as I know none have a copyright warning, more many records and TLM are circulated openly on many sites or forums.
Any lawyer in the community who may advise?
Regards
Jean Marc
On Nov 29, 2019, at 2:56 AM, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
I’m in favor. I cannot think of a reason why it shouldn’t be on Wikipedia and in wiki commons.
I will ask the rest of the board today.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 08:20 Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I recorded some very high quality beacons for AO-95, and was hoping to put them in wiki commons for inclusion on the AO-95 wikipedia page. However before doing so you are warned about copyrighted material and I realize that uploading that recording is likely no different than uploading anybody else's musical or spoken word work.
I also took a screen grab of the waterfall showing the characteristic "fox tail", which I believe is free and clear - and I checked the AMSAT website regarding copyrighted material and it only mentions audio used on the AMSAT website (I think).
Anyhoo, can I get written permission to post beacon recordings to wiki commons (wikipedia)? Do I need to go through the website form (it doesn't really to "work" for recorded audio, only images) If not, no biggie.
Happy Thanksgiving, all!
--Roy K3RLD _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- -Michelle W5NYV
"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis." _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On November 28, 2019 10:18:32 AM CST, Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I recorded some very high quality beacons for AO-95, and was hoping to put them in wiki commons for inclusion on the AO-95 wikipedia page. However before doing so you are warned about copyrighted material and
A short sample probably qualifies under fair use, but IANAL[1], nor do I speak in any capacity for AMSAT.
http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/fair-use
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IANAL
--- Zach N0ZGO
On 11/28/2019 10:18, Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Anyhoo, can I get written permission to post beacon recordings to wiki commons (wikipedia)? Do I need to go through the website form (it doesn't really to "work" for recorded audio, only images) If not, no biggie.
Hi Roy,
To make it official: You may post your recordings of Veronica's AO-95 beacon to Wikimedia Commons. For proper credit, the voice is that of Veronica Monteiro. (She is the daughter of SK VPE Tony Monteiro, AA2TX.)
The audio used in the Fox-1 beacons is a hybrid version of several tracks of Veronica's spoken "Hi! This is amateur radio satellite Fox-n" and "Fox-1n Safe Mode" that were recorded by Burns Fisher, WB1FJ, in 2014-2015. I edited and processed them to produce the beacons that fit the duration and audio frequency range requirements of the Fox-1 satellites.
The "Fox tail" is a descriptive tag that someone came up with during testing I believe, I don't recall who first used it but it became common use in Engineering that everyone knew what specific trait you were talking about. I don't know if that requires any claim or explanation on Wikimedia Commons, I'm just saying that it is not any kind of official or copyright/trademark name for the carrier frequency "swoosh".
Thanks!
participants (6)
-
Grant Hopper -
Jean Marc Momple -
Jerry Buxton -
Michelle Thompson -
Roy Dean -
Zach Metzinger