Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions.
If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>)
Merle, AA4QE
I WAS going to get an endorsement for my satellite and six meter VUCCs, but given that it would cost me around 35 dollars each to get an endorsement for an extra 150 grids, I don't think so. Hope this new insane fee schedule doesn't kill VUCC submissions. I think AMSAT awards will be getting much more popular.
73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: mlolmsted@fuse.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:25 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions.
If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>)
Merle, AA4QE
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
John and the rest of you LOTW doubters...
The costs to use LOTW for VUCC, DXCC, or WAS contact credits IS NOTHING compared to the time, effort and money needed to collect cards the old fashioned way! At near a buck a card domestically (Over 2$ Internationally) for the stamps to send them and as well as a SASE for their return.... all the waiting.... Lost or stolen mail, People who NEVER reply, followed by dealing with the cards after their collected, the hand sorting and filling in paper forms... what a royal pain and more importantly... a very inneficient way to do things...
With the new LOTW system, you simply upload your logs, wait for them to cross confirm with other uploaded logs, spend less than 20 cents per QSO to INSTANTLY use those QSL credits for awards, with little muss or fuss...
I really dont see what the problems is.... Its faster, safer, cheaper, and your log data is backed up forever.... Talk about a lasting legacy of your efforts!
Compared to the OLD FASHIONED way of handling the laborious chore of QSLing, LOTW is a God send saving me much time, money, and alot of hand writing that I truly hate. (Try living in a rare state and you will understand)
As one who has personally activated 57 grids at one time or another (Alot of them RARE), there is now a incentive to sort out and upload all those logs from the past 20 years. Not only will it help others who need those rare grids (CM86, CM95, CM96, CN90, CN91, CN92, DN00, DN10, DN11, DN20, DM07, DM17, DM18, DM19, DM27, DM28, and DM29 just to name a few) but... I can now file for additional 6M VUCC's from several of those grids as they were June Contest efforts from tall mountains with large antennas and KW power where more than 100 Grids was easily accomplished...
Think about it... "Nothing Is Free"... the prices they ask are reasonable, and once uploaded who better to back up your logs than those whom you apply to for the awards!
Personally, I dont understant why everyone isn't getting setup right now to dump their logs online to (at the very least protect those rare and precious contacts from being lost forever) and collect those contact credits w/o lifting a pen to paper or licking a single stamp...
73s de Tim - K7XC - DM09nm.... sk
PS: I have been pushing LOTW for years to make this happen. Its not perfect, but compared to the old ways, its a VAST IMPROVEMENT!
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com To: mlolmsted@fuse.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org; "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:07 PM Subject: [VHF] Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
I WAS going to get an endorsement for my satellite and six meter VUCCs, but given that it would cost me around 35 dollars each to get an endorsement for an extra 150 grids, I don't think so. Hope this new insane fee schedule doesn't kill VUCC submissions. I think AMSAT awards will be getting much more popular. 73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: mlolmsted@fuse.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:25 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions. If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>) Merle, AA4QE
I couldn't agree more with Tim. It is easier to get a card out of Bhutan than it is from some of these VHF ops that operate on a regular basis. I would love to print the list of calls that I have here that will just not respond to an SASE. I won't because I'm typically castigated whenever I bring the issue up. I realize this is a hobby as the defenders of the non-QSLers love to point out but replying to a card is part of that hobby. Or used to be. At least post prominently wherever your call is displayed that you won't QSL. Or something.
Steve, N4JQQ, EM55
On 1/24/2011 1:36 PM, Tim Marek wrote:
John and the rest of you LOTW doubters...
The costs to use LOTW for VUCC, DXCC, or WAS contact credits IS NOTHING compared to the time, effort and money needed to collect cards the old fashioned way! At near a buck a card domestically (Over 2$ Internationally) for the stamps to send them and as well as a SASE for their return.... all the waiting.... Lost or stolen mail, People who NEVER reply, followed by dealing with the cards after their collected, the hand sorting and filling in paper forms... what a royal pain and more importantly... a very inneficient way to do things...
With the new LOTW system, you simply upload your logs, wait for them to cross confirm with other uploaded logs, spend less than 20 cents per QSO to INSTANTLY use those QSL credits for awards, with little muss or fuss...
I really dont see what the problems is.... Its faster, safer, cheaper, and your log data is backed up forever.... Talk about a lasting legacy of your efforts!
Compared to the OLD FASHIONED way of handling the laborious chore of QSLing, LOTW is a God send saving me much time, money, and alot of hand writing that I truly hate. (Try living in a rare state and you will understand)
As one who has personally activated 57 grids at one time or another (Alot of them RARE), there is now a incentive to sort out and upload all those logs from the past 20 years. Not only will it help others who need those rare grids (CM86, CM95, CM96, CN90, CN91, CN92, DN00, DN10, DN11, DN20, DM07, DM17, DM18, DM19, DM27, DM28, and DM29 just to name a few) but... I can now file for additional 6M VUCC's from several of those grids as they were June Contest efforts from tall mountains with large antennas and KW power where more than 100 Grids was easily accomplished...
Think about it... "Nothing Is Free"... the prices they ask are reasonable, and once uploaded who better to back up your logs than those whom you apply to for the awards!
Personally, I dont understant why everyone isn't getting setup right now to dump their logs online to (at the very least protect those rare and precious contacts from being lost forever) and collect those contact credits w/o lifting a pen to paper or licking a single stamp...
73s de Tim - K7XC - DM09nm.... sk
PS: I have been pushing LOTW for years to make this happen. Its not perfect, but compared to the old ways, its a VAST IMPROVEMENT!
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com To: mlolmsted@fuse.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org; "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:07 PM Subject: [VHF] Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
I WAS going to get an endorsement for my satellite and six meter VUCCs, but given that it would cost me around 35 dollars each to get an endorsement for an extra 150 grids, I don't think so. Hope this new insane fee schedule doesn't kill VUCC submissions. I think AMSAT awards will be getting much more popular. 73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: mlolmsted@fuse.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:25 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions. If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>) Merle, AA4QE
Submissions: vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Subscription/removal requests: vhf-request@w6yx.stanford.edu Human list administrator: vhf-approval@w6yx.stanford.edu List rules and information: http://www-w6yx.stanford.edu/vhf/
Tim,
I'm not a LotW doubter. I'm a LotW rejecter.
I've been in ham radio for 52 years and have always loved QSLing. I like to QSL. I look at every card I receive and look forward to receiving cards for the QSOs I make.
There have been times when the QSLiing chores were intense, like after working hundreds of JAs during the F2. Yeah, it was work, but I looked forward to receiving their cards and I know that they enjoyed receiving mine.
QSLing has always had a cost. Nowadays, it would cost me a lot to send cards to everyone that I work and pay for it out of my own pocket. That's why I require an s.a.s.e. from those domestic hams who want my card. But, I don't have a problem doing that. I figure if you want to apply for major awards like VUCC and FFMA, and need my card, you can send me an s.a.s.e.
I don't necessarily think that using LotW is all that efficient. I do not computer log except in contests. The only reason I do it in contests is because contest sponsors want electronic submissions, and since I would have to transcribe my hand-written logs into electronic form after the fact, I choose to computer log to save work. But, I would rather log via pencil and paper during contests.
Personally, I'm disappointed that the ARRL has chosen to create this LotW thing. It is aimed at ruining one of the classic enjoyments of ham radio.
73, Paul, K7CW
--- On Mon, 1/24/11, Tim Marek K7XC@charter.net wrote:
From: Tim Marek K7XC@charter.net Subject: Re: [VHF] Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs To: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com, mlolmsted@fuse.net, "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org, "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 11:36 AM
John and the rest of you LOTW doubters...
The costs to use LOTW for VUCC, DXCC, or WAS contact credits IS NOTHING compared to the time, effort and money needed to collect cards the old fashioned way! At near a buck a card domestically (Over 2$ Internationally) for the stamps to send them and as well as a SASE for their return.... all the waiting.... Lost or stolen mail, People who NEVER reply, followed by dealing with the cards after their collected, the hand sorting and filling in paper forms... what a royal pain and more importantly... a very inneficient way to do things...
With the new LOTW system, you simply upload your logs, wait for them to cross confirm with other uploaded logs, spend less than 20 cents per QSO to INSTANTLY use those QSL credits for awards, with little muss or fuss...
I really dont see what the problems is.... Its faster, safer, cheaper, and your log data is backed up forever.... Talk about a lasting legacy of your efforts!
Compared to the OLD FASHIONED way of handling the laborious chore of QSLing, LOTW is a God send saving me much time, money, and alot of hand writing that I truly hate. (Try living in a rare state and you will understand)
As one who has personally activated 57 grids at one time or another (Alot of them RARE), there is now a incentive to sort out and upload all those logs from the past 20 years. Not only will it help others who need those rare grids (CM86, CM95, CM96, CN90, CN91, CN92, DN00, DN10, DN11, DN20, DM07, DM17, DM18, DM19, DM27, DM28, and DM29 just to name a few) but... I can now file for additional 6M VUCC's from several of those grids as they were June Contest efforts from tall mountains with large antennas and KW power where more than 100 Grids was easily accomplished...
Think about it... "Nothing Is Free"... the prices they ask are reasonable, and once uploaded who better to back up your logs than those whom you apply to for the awards!
Personally, I dont understant why everyone isn't getting setup right now to dump their logs online to (at the very least protect those rare and precious contacts from being lost forever) and collect those contact credits w/o lifting a pen to paper or licking a single stamp...
73s de Tim - K7XC - DM09nm.... sk
PS: I have been pushing LOTW for years to make this happen. Its not perfect, but compared to the old ways, its a VAST IMPROVEMENT!
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com To: mlolmsted@fuse.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org; "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:07 PM Subject: [VHF] Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
I WAS going to get an endorsement for my satellite and six meter VUCCs, but given that it would cost me around 35 dollars each to get an endorsement for an extra 150 grids, I don't think so. Hope this new insane fee schedule doesn't kill VUCC submissions. I think AMSAT awards will be getting much more popular. 73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: mlolmsted@fuse.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:25 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions. If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>) Merle, AA4QE
------ Submissions: vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Subscription/removal requests: vhf-request@w6yx.stanford.edu Human list administrator: vhf-approval@w6yx.stanford.edu List rules and information: http://www-w6yx.stanford.edu/vhf/
Hi Paul and the group...
I can understand and respect your reasons for doing as you do... At the same time you have to respect the fact that life is about growth and LOTW is a natural expression of Amateur Radio embracing technology in a meaningful manner and moving forward.
As one who has been a ham not as long as you, only 33 years... (as if it matters) I love QSLs and awards as much as anyone....
What I detest is having to deal with QSLs in such a inneficent manner as paper, pen, stamps, and envelopes. As one who makes several thousand QSO's a year between HF and VHF contesting (not to mention a healthy 6M Es addiction) QSLing has always been a heavy burden that I dont do well.
Traditionally... all QSL's recieved go in a box and when its full I sit down and in a few days empty out the box. The box is not even looked at during 6M Es season or during the time period between CQ WW DX SSB and the ARRL 10M Contest.
Some people have been quite vocal about my "Lack of QSLing" which has never been the case... But i have a deffinant "Delay in QSLing" that at time lasts months and can be hard for some to understand. Live in a rare state, activate rare grids a few times, and you will understand. I do them ON MY TERMS or not at all.
With the advent of LOTW support for VUCC and FFMA, I hope the future VHF+ QSL burden drops by at least half, which will be a huge help. Unlike many of you, my days are filled with painfull headaches (remants from a bad car crash) which limits my ambitions to mainly the things that must be done to survive and QSLing is NOT anywhere near the top of that list.
The ultimate purpose for any QSL is to apply for an award of one type or another... LOTW spares me the Paper QSLIng Burden while still allows me to keep chasing those awards and thankfully lets me focus what little energy I have to where it belongs... Finding work, Operating, Station building, and fighting pain.
LoTW is NOT ruining existing QSLing, its improving it with many more options....
And my take on the cost associated with using LOTW... It takes time, effort, energy, manpower, equipment, infrustructure, and more to run a program as large as LOTW... The fact we only pay to use the service when we elect to use QSO credits for awards make perfect sense to me.... I know hams are notoriously cheap but this is one case I think we are getting what we pay for...
73s and GL de Tim - K7XC - DM09nm... sk ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kiesel To: John Geiger ; mlolmsted@fuse.net ; Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org ; 'VHF REFLECTOR' ; Tim Marek Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [VHF] Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Tim,
I'm not a LotW doubter. I'm a LotW rejecter. I've been in ham radio for 52 years and have always loved QSLing. I like to QSL. I look at every card I receive and look forward to receiving cards for the QSOs I make. There have been times when the QSLiing chores were intense, like after working hundreds of JAs during the F2. Yeah, it was work, but I looked forward to receiving their cards and I know that they enjoyed receiving mine. QSLing has always had a cost.. Nowadays, it would cost me a lot to send cards to everyone that I work and pay for it out of my own pocket. That's why I require an s.a.s.e. from those domestic hams who want my card. But, I don't have a problem doing that. I figure if you want to apply for major awards like VUCC and FFMA, and need my card, you can send me an s.a.s.e. I don't necessarily think that using LotW is all that efficient. I do not computer log except in contests.. The only reason I do it in contests is because contest sponsors want electronic submissions, and since I would have to transcribe my hand-written logs into electronic form after the fact, I choose to computer log to save work. But, I would rather log via pencil and paper during contests. Personally, I'm disappointed that the ARRL has chosen to create this LotW thing. It is aimed at ruining one of the classic enjoyments of ham radio. 73, Paul, K7CW
--- On Mon, 1/24/11, Tim Marek K7XC@charter.net wrote:
From: Tim Marek K7XC@charter.net Subject: Re: [VHF] Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs To: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com, mlolmsted@fuse.net, "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org, "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 11:36 AM
John and the rest of you LOTW doubters... The costs to use LOTW for VUCC, DXCC, or WAS contact credits IS NOTHING compared to the time, effort and money needed to collect cards the old fashioned way! At near a buck a card domestically (Over 2$ Internationally) for the stamps to send them and as well as a SASE for their return..... all the waiting.... Lost or stolen mail, People who NEVER reply, followed by dealing with the cards after their collected, the hand sorting and filling in paper forms... what a royal pain and more importantly... a very inneficient way to do things... With the new LOTW system, you simply upload your logs, wait for them to cross confirm with other uploaded logs, spend less than 20 cents per QSO to INSTANTLY use those QSL credits for awards, with little muss or fuss... I really dont see what the problems is.... Its faster, safer, cheaper, and your log data is backed up forever.... Talk about a lasting legacy of your efforts! Compared to the OLD FASHIONED way of handling the laborious chore of QSLing, LOTW is a God send saving me much time, money, and alot of hand writing that I truly hate. (Try living in a rare state and you will understand) As one who has personally activated 57 grids at one time or another (Alot of them RARE), there is now a incentive to sort out and upload all those logs from the past 20 years. Not only will it help others who need those rare grids (CM86, CM95, CM96, CN90, CN91, CN92, DN00, DN10, DN11, DN20, DM07, DM17, DM18, DM19, DM27, DM28, and DM29 just to name a few) but... I can now file for additional 6M VUCC's from several of those grids as they were June Contest efforts from tall mountains with large antennas and KW power where more than 100 Grids was easily accomplished... Think about it... "Nothing Is Free"... the prices they ask are reasonable, and once uploaded who better to back up your logs than those whom you apply to for the awards! Personally, I dont understant why everyone isn't getting setup right now to dump their logs online to (at the very least protect those rare and precious contacts from being lost forever) and collect those contact credits w/o lifting a pen to paper or licking a single stamp... 73s de Tim - K7XC - DM09nm.... sk PS: I have been pushing LOTW for years to make this happen. Its not perfect, but compared to the old ways, its a VAST IMPROVEMENT!
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com To: mlolmsted@fuse.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org; "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:07 PM Subject: [VHF] Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
> I WAS going to get an endorsement for my satellite and six meter VUCCs, but given that it would cost me around 35 dollars each to get an endorsement for an extra 150 grids, I don't think so. Hope this new insane fee schedule doesn't kill VUCC submissions. I think AMSAT awards will be getting much more popular. 73s John AA5JG > > ----- Original Message ----- From: mlolmsted@fuse.net > To: amsat-bb@amsat.org > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:25 PM > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs >> Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions. >> If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>) >> Merle, AA4QE ------ Submissions: vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Subscription/removal requests: vhf-request@w6yx.stanford.edu Human list administrator: vhf-approval@w6yx.stanford.edu List rules and information: http://www-w6yx.stanford.edu/vhf/
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Spark vs CW AM vs SSB Tubes vs Solid State Homebrew vs Appliance Operator FCC Office vs VECs Code vs No-Code EME CW vs WSJT QSL Cards vs LoTW
Time marches on...
73 de Sebastian, W4AS
Personally, I'm disappointed that the ARRL has chosen to create this LotW thing. It is aimed at ruining one of the classic enjoyments of ham radio.
Very good observation and analogy. Please add:
Mechanical Filters vs. DSP Analog display vs. Digital Display Paper logs vs. Electronic logs Paper duping (contest) vs. Computer duping (contest)
73,
Jeff WB3JFS
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sebastian" w4as@bellsouth.net To: "amsat-bb" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 5:55 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: [VHF] Re: Re: VUCC costs
Spark vs CW AM vs SSB Tubes vs Solid State Homebrew vs Appliance Operator FCC Office vs VECs Code vs No-Code EME CW vs WSJT QSL Cards vs LoTW
Time marches on...
73 de Sebastian, W4AS
Personally, I'm disappointed that the ARRL has chosen to create this LotW thing. It is aimed at ruining one of the classic enjoyments of ham radio.
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I have been reading all the comments.
I really only QSL eme contacts. I will QSL meteor scatter once there is some activity up here (nearest activity is 1300-miles away which kind of tough to do. Also, I will reply to a QSL request on satellite, HF, or 6m. Please SASE, or include a "buck" with your QSL.
VUCC in Alaska _ Ha Ha pretty funny joke! There are not 100 grids with hams in AK. I might try for eme WAC, DXCC, and WAS someday.
The only VUCC I am interested in accomplishing is on microwave where 7-grids qualify. That will be a challenge, but I have identified 7-8 grid squares that should be workable from my home qth. Of course that will require rovers/portables to go to these girds to set up.
The Alaska VHF-Up Group offers an award for VHF+ starting at 5-grids worked in Alaska. A plaque is awarded for 20-grids. No QSLs are required for submission for an award. Just send a copy of the station logs showing the qualifying contacts. See the rules on my website: http://www.kl7uw.com/avg.htm
In the Jan 2010 ARRL VHF Contest NL7HJ/R activated 12 grids making him the first ham to qualify for the rover-class "Pathfinder" Award. This year I think there may be 2-3 stations that worked 5-grids to qualify. NL7HJ/R activated them and had planned on two more grids within my range, but ran too late at night to do.
I am not doing LotW; only paper QSL's. I have receive a few e-QSL. What I do in the future is ??? Being the sole Alaska 2m-eme station makes my QSL very desired for 2m-eme WAS. It costs me quite a lot to QSL 100% of eme contacts.
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-1.4kw*, 432-100w*, 1296-testing*, 3400-winter? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@hotmail.com ====================================== *temp not in service
Yes, I agree with Tim wholeheartedly.
Paper cards are nice (I have a few from my Novice days in 1957) but I, like many others, cannot afford the expense. I *do* QSL 100% when a card is sent to me but LoTW is fine, too. To summarily reject LoTW, to invoke Mr. Spock, not logical ;>)
BTW, I use N1MM logger for all contests and ACLog for everything else...painless, easy and I can use the logging program on CW to cover for my rotten fist :>)
73,
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Tim Marek K7XC@charter.net wrote:
John and the rest of you LOTW doubters...
The costs to use LOTW for VUCC, DXCC, or WAS contact credits IS NOTHING compared to the time, effort and money needed to collect cards the old fashioned way! At near a buck a card domestically (Over 2$ Internationally) for the stamps to send them and as well as a SASE for their return.... all the waiting.... Lost or stolen mail, People who NEVER reply, followed by dealing with the cards after their collected, the hand sorting and filling in paper forms... what a royal pain and more importantly... a very inneficient way to do things...
With the new LOTW system, you simply upload your logs, wait for them to cross confirm with other uploaded logs, spend less than 20 cents per QSO to INSTANTLY use those QSL credits for awards, with little muss or fuss...
I really dont see what the problems is.... Its faster, safer, cheaper, and your log data is backed up forever.... Talk about a lasting legacy of your efforts!
Compared to the OLD FASHIONED way of handling the laborious chore of QSLing, LOTW is a God send saving me much time, money, and alot of hand writing that I truly hate. (Try living in a rare state and you will understand)
As one who has personally activated 57 grids at one time or another (Alot of them RARE), there is now a incentive to sort out and upload all those logs from the past 20 years. Not only will it help others who need those rare grids (CM86, CM95, CM96, CN90, CN91, CN92, DN00, DN10, DN11, DN20, DM07, DM17, DM18, DM19, DM27, DM28, and DM29 just to name a few) but... I can now file for additional 6M VUCC's from several of those grids as they were June Contest efforts from tall mountains with large antennas and KW power where more than 100 Grids was easily accomplished...
Think about it... "Nothing Is Free"... the prices they ask are reasonable, and once uploaded who better to back up your logs than those whom you apply to for the awards!
Personally, I dont understant why everyone isn't getting setup right now to dump their logs online to (at the very least protect those rare and precious contacts from being lost forever) and collect those contact credits w/o lifting a pen to paper or licking a single stamp...
73s de Tim - K7XC - DM09nm.... sk
PS: I have been pushing LOTW for years to make this happen. Its not perfect, but compared to the old ways, its a VAST IMPROVEMENT!
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com To: mlolmsted@fuse.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org; "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:07 PM Subject: [VHF] Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
I WAS going to get an endorsement for my satellite and six meter VUCCs,
but given that it would cost me around 35 dollars each to get an endorsement for an extra 150 grids, I don't think so. Hope this new insane fee schedule doesn't kill VUCC submissions. I think AMSAT awards will be getting much more popular. 73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: mlolmsted@fuse.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:25 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions. If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>) Merle, AA4QE
Submissions: vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Subscription/removal requests: vhf-request@w6yx.stanford.edu Human list administrator: vhf-approval@w6yx.stanford.edu List rules and information: http://www-w6yx.stanford.edu/vhf/
Nah, that computer thing is never going to catch on :-)
Bob K0NR
On 1/24/2011 7:10 PM, Jack/W6NF wrote:
Yes, I agree with Tim wholeheartedly.
Paper cards are nice (I have a few from my Novice days in 1957) but I, like many others, cannot afford the expense. I *do* QSL 100% when a card is sent to me but LoTW is fine, too. To summarily reject LoTW, to invoke Mr. Spock, not logical ;>)
BTW, I use N1MM logger for all contests and ACLog for everything else...painless, easy and I can use the logging program on CW to cover for my rotten fist :>)
73,
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Tim MarekK7XC@charter.net wrote:
John and the rest of you LOTW doubters...
The costs to use LOTW for VUCC, DXCC, or WAS contact credits IS NOTHING compared to the time, effort and money needed to collect cards the old fashioned way! At near a buck a card domestically (Over 2$ Internationally) for the stamps to send them and as well as a SASE for their return.... all the waiting.... Lost or stolen mail, People who NEVER reply, followed by dealing with the cards after their collected, the hand sorting and filling in paper forms... what a royal pain and more importantly... a very inneficient way to do things...
With the new LOTW system, you simply upload your logs, wait for them to cross confirm with other uploaded logs, spend less than 20 cents per QSO to INSTANTLY use those QSL credits for awards, with little muss or fuss...
I really dont see what the problems is.... Its faster, safer, cheaper, and your log data is backed up forever.... Talk about a lasting legacy of your efforts!
Compared to the OLD FASHIONED way of handling the laborious chore of QSLing, LOTW is a God send saving me much time, money, and alot of hand writing that I truly hate. (Try living in a rare state and you will understand)
As one who has personally activated 57 grids at one time or another (Alot of them RARE), there is now a incentive to sort out and upload all those logs from the past 20 years. Not only will it help others who need those rare grids (CM86, CM95, CM96, CN90, CN91, CN92, DN00, DN10, DN11, DN20, DM07, DM17, DM18, DM19, DM27, DM28, and DM29 just to name a few) but... I can now file for additional 6M VUCC's from several of those grids as they were June Contest efforts from tall mountains with large antennas and KW power where more than 100 Grids was easily accomplished...
Think about it... "Nothing Is Free"... the prices they ask are reasonable, and once uploaded who better to back up your logs than those whom you apply to for the awards!
Personally, I dont understant why everyone isn't getting setup right now to dump their logs online to (at the very least protect those rare and precious contacts from being lost forever) and collect those contact credits w/o lifting a pen to paper or licking a single stamp...
73s de Tim - K7XC - DM09nm.... sk
PS: I have been pushing LOTW for years to make this happen. Its not perfect, but compared to the old ways, its a VAST IMPROVEMENT!
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger"aa5jg@fidmail.com To:mlolmsted@fuse.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org"amsat-bb@amsat.org; "'VHF REFLECTOR'"vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:07 PM Subject: [VHF] Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
I WAS going to get an endorsement for my satellite and six meter VUCCs,
but given that it would cost me around 35 dollars each to get an endorsement for an extra 150 grids, I don't think so. Hope this new insane fee schedule doesn't kill VUCC submissions. I think AMSAT awards will be getting much more popular. 73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From:mlolmsted@fuse.net To:amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:25 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions. If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>) Merle, AA4QE
Submissions: vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Subscription/removal requests: vhf-request@w6yx.stanford.edu Human list administrator: vhf-approval@w6yx.stanford.edu List rules and information: http://www-w6yx.stanford.edu/vhf/
Hi John,
It's funny how HQ never came out and stated there would be new fees beginning of the new year. Then again why would you want to scare away potential customers? In any case, I finally took my cards over to the local card checker to have him verify them for VUCC Satellite. My cost? $47.40. I understand it's a one time deal for the initial application, which this was, and there costs involved. Just the 20 cent per QSO fee cost me $27.40 alone. That's more than the award cost itself. Actually, more than twice of what the award cost. Doesn't make any economical or logical sense if you ask me. I don't believe I'll be doing many, if any, endorsements of VUCC at the current fees level.
73,
Jeff WB3JFS
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com To: mlolmsted@fuse.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org; "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:07 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
I WAS going to get an endorsement for my satellite and six meter VUCCs, but given that it would cost me around 35 dollars each to get an endorsement for an extra 150 grids, I don't think so. Hope this new insane fee schedule doesn't kill VUCC submissions. I think AMSAT awards will be getting much more popular.
73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: mlolmsted@fuse.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:25 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions.
If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>)
Merle, AA4QE
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Even at the 16 cent a QSO LOTW fee that sure is a jump up in price from what it used to be. I am afraid I won't be able to afford many endorsements. maybe AMSAT can offer their own version of a satellite VUCC.
73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Yanko" wb3jfs@cox.net To: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com; mlolmsted@fuse.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org; "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Hi John,
It's funny how HQ never came out and stated there would be new fees beginning of the new year. Then again why would you want to scare away potential customers? In any case, I finally took my cards over to the local card checker to have him verify them for VUCC Satellite. My cost? $47.40. I understand it's a one time deal for the initial application, which this was, and there costs involved. Just the 20 cent per QSO fee cost me $27.40 alone. That's more than the award cost itself. Actually, more than twice of what the award cost. Doesn't make any economical or logical sense if you ask me. I don't believe I'll be doing many, if any, endorsements of VUCC at the current fees level.
73,
Jeff WB3JFS
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com To: mlolmsted@fuse.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org; "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:07 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
I WAS going to get an endorsement for my satellite and six meter VUCCs, but given that it would cost me around 35 dollars each to get an endorsement for an extra 150 grids, I don't think so. Hope this new insane fee schedule doesn't kill VUCC submissions. I think AMSAT awards will be getting much more popular.
73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: mlolmsted@fuse.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:25 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions.
If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>)
Merle, AA4QE
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi John,
At 16 cents per QSO LoTW VUCC fee is more affordable than what we are currently doing. Let me explain. Let's say you make 100 QSO's with 100 grids. Instead of sending out QSLs with SASE's at a total of 88 cents a piece, 44 cents to send and 44 cents for return, one QSO will cost you 16 cents. Period. So requesting QSL's via the P.O will cost you $88. A confirmation of the same 100 grids via LoTW will cost you $16. A savings of $72. Big difference. Now, the big problem. Getting those who operate the birds to upload their logs to LoTW. It won't work unless most participate, that's the sad part.
73,
Jeff WB3JFS
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com To: "Jeff Yanko" wb3jfs@cox.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Even at the 16 cent a QSO LOTW fee that sure is a jump up in price from what it used to be. I am afraid I won't be able to afford many endorsements. maybe AMSAT can offer their own version of a satellite VUCC.
73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Yanko" wb3jfs@cox.net To: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com; mlolmsted@fuse.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org; "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Hi John,
It's funny how HQ never came out and stated there would be new fees beginning of the new year. Then again why would you want to scare away potential customers? In any case, I finally took my cards over to the local card checker to have him verify them for VUCC Satellite. My cost? $47.40. I understand it's a one time deal for the initial application, which this was, and there costs involved. Just the 20 cent per QSO fee cost me $27.40 alone. That's more than the award cost itself. Actually, more than twice of what the award cost. Doesn't make any economical or logical sense if you ask me. I don't believe I'll be doing many, if any, endorsements of VUCC at the current fees level.
73,
Jeff WB3JFS
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" aa5jg@fidmail.com To: mlolmsted@fuse.net; "Amsat-Bb@Amsat. Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org; "'VHF REFLECTOR'" vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:07 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
I WAS going to get an endorsement for my satellite and six meter VUCCs, but given that it would cost me around 35 dollars each to get an endorsement for an extra 150 grids, I don't think so. Hope this new insane fee schedule doesn't kill VUCC submissions. I think AMSAT awards will be getting much more popular.
73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: mlolmsted@fuse.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:25 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions.
If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>)
Merle, AA4QE
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
John
I don't think setting up and maintaining the VUCC awards on LOTW is free. That would be like asking for a 8 lane freeway and never paying taxes.. unless it a toll road ..Mark
From: aa5jg@fidmail.com To: mlolmsted@fuse.net; amsat-bb@amsat.org; vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Subject: [VHF] Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:07:33 +0000
I WAS going to get an endorsement for my satellite and six meter VUCCs, but given that it would cost me around 35 dollars each to get an endorsement for an extra 150 grids, I don't think so. Hope this new insane fee schedule doesn't kill VUCC submissions. I think AMSAT awards will be getting much more popular.
73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message ----- From: mlolmsted@fuse.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:25 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
Nice explanation of the costs for VUCC in the Jeff Yanko blog. However, I did not see what happens with LOTW submisions.
If the cost of awards keep going up, maybe the ARRL should offer award insurance as well as equipment insurance. Just a thought. :>)
Merle, AA4QE
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Submissions: vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Subscription/removal requests: vhf-request@w6yx.stanford.edu Human list administrator: vhf-approval@w6yx.stanford.edu List rules and information: http://www-w6yx.stanford.edu/vhf/
Its not. PAPER LoTW Application Fee $7 $5 Per QSO fee $0.20 $0.16 Certificate+postage $12 $12 Sticker+postage $1 $1 Pin+postage $7 $7
Ex: 6m VUCC certificate w/100 grids $39 $33
BEFORE LoTW, the cost was $10 (Certificate + Pin) and any endorsement was $10 (Sticker) PLUS the cost of QSL-ing, of course.
You decide.
Also, remember that someone who wouldn't QSL even w/SASE or, in some cases with a card they simply had to sign and drop in the mail box, may not upload to LoTW either.
73 Donn WA2VOI/0
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark McMillaN" w7mem@msn.com To: aa5jg@fidmail.com; mlolmsted@fuse.net; amsat-bb@amsat.org; vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 4:27 AM Subject: RE: [VHF] Re: [amsat-bb] Re: VUCC costs
John
I don't think setting up and maintaining the VUCC awards on LOTW is free. That would be like asking for a 8 lane freeway and never paying taxes.. unless it a toll road ..Mark
participants (12)
-
Bob K0NR - email list -
Crownhaven -
Donn -
Edward R. Cole -
Jack/W6NF -
Jeff Yanko -
John Geiger -
Mark McMillaN -
mlolmsted＠fuse.net -
Paul Kiesel -
Sebastian -
Tim Marek