SiriusXM's new SXM-7 satellite suffers major payload failure, feared total loss. Insured for $225M.
https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1354478752730853380?s=19
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/sirius-xm-says-does-not-expect-satellite-rad...
Similar to our recent difficulties.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
Thanks for sharing John.. I wonder how the insurer knew the satellite was operational pre-launch. Normally, insurance covers failure associated with the actual launch. If the operational status of the satellite wasn't verified pre-launch, certainly potential for insurance fraud.
On Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 4:55 PM John Brier [email protected] wrote:
https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1354478752730853380?s=19
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/sirius-xm-says-does-not-expect-satellite-rad...
Similar to our recent difficulties.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
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On 01/27/2021 15:20, Marshall Toburen wrote:
Thanks for sharing John.. I wonder how the insurer knew the satellite was operational pre-launch. Normally, insurance covers failure associated with the actual launch. If the operational status of the satellite wasn't verified pre-launch, certainly potential for insurance fraud.
Satellites are tested every way that can be thought of prior to launch. I am very confident that everything that could be tested was done so and found to be operational. And very certain that XM or the satellite builder can show all the test results to prove what was tested and the results.
On 1/27/21 4:54 PM, John Brier wrote:
https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1354478752730853380?s=19
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/sirius-xm-says-does-not-expect-satellite-rad...
Similar to our recent difficulties.
Well, crud!
I'm a SIRI shareholder. I'd better go demand that they release all the engineering data so I can do my own independent analysis.
:-)
--- Zach N0ZGO
On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 4:36 PM Zach Metzinger [email protected] wrote:
I'm a SIRI shareholder. I'd better go demand that they release all the engineering data so I can do my own independent analysis.
OK, I know you meant this to be sarcastic, but exactly that might happen.
It's called the "discovery process", and if either side decides to take the other to court, they will be able to get the court to order the other side to produce evidence. To the extent that the evidence can not be shared with the public, the case may be sealed so that outsiders don't see it, but the court will see it, as will the opposing sides. The order of the court for the parties to keep it secret is stronger than an NDA, and can be enforced with jail time.
This process is also available to stockholders who choose to sue, but these are either ones who hold lots of stock, or the evidence is restricted to the attorneys and a small party while they represent a larger class of stockholders.
It is also probable that for a $220M insurance policy, that there are terms regarding visibility already written into the contract, and thus this may happen without a court order. Indeed, for that much, the insurance company may even have had its own experts and inspectors in the loop before and during the launch.
So, what about AMSAT? It's a non-profit and the members own it, and they don't have the proprietary reasons of Sirius to limit visibility.
Bruce
On 1/27/2021 19:02, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote:
So, what about AMSAT? It's a non-profit and the members own it,
I'm just stuck on the fact that I own the NRA too, then. Pretty cool feeling!
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
Jerry Buxton wrote:
On 1/27/2021 19:02, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote: I'm just stuck on the fact that I own the NRA too, then. Pretty cool feeling!
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
They're bankrupt. And yet Wayne LaPierre will probably still collect 1+ million dollar salary this year. Probably not a good comparison to suggest.....
--Roy K3RLD
On 01/28/2021 05:23, Roy Dean wrote:
Jerry Buxton wrote:
On 1/27/2021 19:02, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote: I'm just stuck on the fact that I own the NRA too, then. Pretty cool feeling!
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
They're bankrupt. And yet Wayne LaPierre will probably still collect 1+ million dollar salary this year. Probably not a good comparison to suggest.....
--Roy K3RLD
Yes, this is massively off topic, but my one and only reply. Actually the NRA is in very good financial shape. However they are dissolving the corporation in New York and re-incorporating in Texas. The New York bankruptcy filing is the method to close out the finances on the New York corporation. This was done because the state government in New York (where the NRA has been incorporated for ages and ages) is going out of it's way to make life difficult for the NRA. By moving to a friendlier state, the NRA can continue it's operations without having to fight the state government.
BTW, I am not a SiriusXM shareholder, but I am a very long term customer, so I hope this will not cause any service interruptions... Reports are that it will not.
The NRA leadership is also corrupt, using their members' money to personally enrich themselves so they can live lavish lifestyles. It's ironic Jerry compared his lack of ownership of the NRA to justify dismissing the idea AMSAT members have any ownership of AMSAT. Maybe he thinks NRA leadership deserves to see the NRA as mostly their organization, of which they can exercise liberal control to their benefit, not the members. I don't think he is likely to defend their corruption but the outlook that he doesn't think he has any ownership of NRA might explain why he is okay with the secretive nature of AMSAT operations.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 11:46 PM Jim Walls [email protected] wrote:
On 01/28/2021 05:23, Roy Dean wrote:
Jerry Buxton wrote:
On 1/27/2021 19:02, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote: I'm just stuck on the fact that I own the NRA too, then. Pretty cool feeling!
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
They're bankrupt. And yet Wayne LaPierre will probably still collect 1+ million dollar salary this year. Probably not a good comparison to suggest.....
--Roy K3RLD
Yes, this is massively off topic, but my one and only reply. Actually the NRA is in very good financial shape. However they are dissolving the corporation in New York and re-incorporating in Texas. The New York bankruptcy filing is the method to close out the finances on the New York corporation. This was done because the state government in New York (where the NRA has been incorporated for ages and ages) is going out of it's way to make life difficult for the NRA. By moving to a friendlier state, the NRA can continue it's operations without having to fight the state government.
BTW, I am not a SiriusXM shareholder, but I am a very long term customer, so I hope this will not cause any service interruptions... Reports are that it will not.
-- 73
Jim Walls - K6CCC [email protected] Ofc: 818-548-4804 http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/ AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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Jim, most of what you are asking for is published in the AMSAT Journal and theConference Proceedings. Kent WA5VJB On Friday, January 29, 2021, 07:45:54 AM CST, John Brier [email protected] wrote:
The NRA leadership is also corrupt, using their members' money to personally enrich themselves so they can live lavish lifestyles. It's ironic Jerry compared his lack of ownership of the NRA to justify dismissing the idea AMSAT members have any ownership of AMSAT. Maybe he thinks NRA leadership deserves to see the NRA as mostly their organization, of which they can exercise liberal control to their benefit, not the members. I don't think he is likely to defend their corruption but the outlook that he doesn't think he has any ownership of NRA might explain why he is okay with the secretive nature of AMSAT operations.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 11:46 PM Jim Walls [email protected] wrote:
On 01/28/2021 05:23, Roy Dean wrote:
Jerry Buxton wrote:
On 1/27/2021 19:02, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote: I'm just stuck on the fact that I own the NRA too, then. Pretty cool feeling!
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
They're bankrupt. And yet Wayne LaPierre will probably still collect 1+ million dollar salary this year. Probably not a good comparison to suggest.....
--Roy K3RLD
Yes, this is massively off topic, but my one and only reply. Actually the NRA is in very good financial shape. However they are dissolving the corporation in New York and re-incorporating in Texas. The New York bankruptcy filing is the method to close out the finances on the New York corporation. This was done because the state government in New York (where the NRA has been incorporated for ages and ages) is going out of it's way to make life difficult for the NRA. By moving to a friendlier state, the NRA can continue it's operations without having to fight the state government.
BTW, I am not a SiriusXM shareholder, but I am a very long term customer, so I hope this will not cause any service interruptions... Reports are that it will not.
-- 73
Jim Walls - K6CCC [email protected] Ofc: 818-548-4804 http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/ AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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-----------------------------------------------------------
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I suggest we STOP the discussion of the NRA on the AMSAT-BB. What's next, ex-presidents, conspiracy theories, etc?
This stuff has a very low SNR.
Bob W7OTJ
On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 6:30 AM KENT BRITAIN [email protected] wrote:
Jim, most of what you are asking for is published in the AMSAT Journal and the Conference Proceedings. Kent WA5VJB
On Friday, January 29, 2021, 07:45:54 AM CST, John Brier < [email protected]> wrote:
The NRA leadership is also corrupt, using their members' money to personally enrich themselves so they can live lavish lifestyles. It's ironic Jerry compared his lack of ownership of the NRA to justify dismissing the idea AMSAT members have any ownership of AMSAT. Maybe he thinks NRA leadership deserves to see the NRA as mostly their organization, of which they can exercise liberal control to their benefit, not the members. I don't think he is likely to defend their corruption but the outlook that he doesn't think he has any ownership of NRA might explain why he is okay with the secretive nature of AMSAT operations.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 11:46 PM Jim Walls [email protected] wrote:
On 01/28/2021 05:23, Roy Dean wrote:
Jerry Buxton wrote:
On 1/27/2021 19:02, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote: I'm just stuck on the fact that I own the NRA too, then. Pretty cool feeling!
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
They're bankrupt. And yet Wayne LaPierre will probably still collect
1+ million dollar salary this year. Probably not a good comparison to suggest.....
--Roy K3RLD
Yes, this is massively off topic, but my one and only reply. Actually the NRA is in very good financial shape. However they are dissolving the corporation in New York and re-incorporating in Texas. The New York bankruptcy filing is the method to close out the finances on the New York corporation. This was done because the state government in New York (where the NRA has been incorporated for ages and ages) is going out of it's way to make life difficult for the NRA. By moving to a friendlier state, the NRA can continue it's operations without having to fight the state government.
BTW, I am not a SiriusXM shareholder, but I am a very long term customer, so I hope this will not cause any service interruptions... Reports are that it will not.
-- 73
Jim Walls - K6CCC [email protected] Ofc: 818-548-4804 http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/ AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
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Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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On 1/29/21 8:45 AM, Bob Hammond wrote:
I suggest we STOP the discussion of the NRA on the AMSAT-BB. What's next, ex-presidents, conspiracy theories, etc?
This stuff has a very low SNR.
Seconded. Vastly off-topic.
--- Zach N0ZGO
On 2021-01-29 9:53 a.m., Zach Metzinger wrote:
This stuff has a very low SNR.
Seconded. Vastly off-topic.
Yep and one wonders why I do not join AMSAT. Unless it stops soon I will leave the list (again) for a while since the stuff is of no interest to me anymore. Sounds like the nonsense before the last elections.
Like you not being a member of Amsat is of any interest to any of us? You're just as bad.
On 29/01/2021 10:37 Bill Booth [email protected] wrote:
Yep and one wonders why I do not join AMSAT. Unless it stops soon I will leave the list (again) for a while since the stuff is of no interest to me anymore. Sounds like the nonsense before the last elections.
Good Evening,
Just my one cent input:
If you use any satellite for either Rx or QSO, you should join AMSAT just to contribute for sending these birds up there, that you use. We may have debates about management competency or vision but it all boils down to get funds/money to send spacecrafts up there which is really costly.
So, if you enjoy QSO’s and/or just have fun listening to the birds please do contribute by being a member or by donation of any AMSAT organization worldwide. If not, its like going to the restaurant (surely more expensive) and not pay the bill but complain about the quality of the food. One can only complain for service not received or bad one if he has to pay for it, else not, so “non-members” or donators have no say or right to complain to my opinion.
Personally I enjoy both the fox series (AMSAT-NA ) and QO-100 (AMSAT-DL) this is why I am a member of both and also donated to both so that we have more birds up there.
I guess above message is clear enough.
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jan 29, 2021, at 7:56 PM, Nigel A. Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF [email protected] wrote:
Like you not being a member of Amsat is of any interest to any of us? You're just as bad.
On 29/01/2021 10:37 Bill Booth [email protected] wrote:
Yep and one wonders why I do not join AMSAT. Unless it stops soon I will leave the list (again) for a while since the stuff is of no interest to me anymore. Sounds like the nonsense before the last elections.
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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Jerry is the one who brought up NRA, as a rejection of the concept that the members own the organization.
A 501(c)3 does not have stock, and upon dissolution the assets can only go to another 501(c)3. So, it is not owned in the sense that the members are stockholders or that it works in their financial interest, as a for-profit would.
However, I assert that the members own the organization in that *it is responsible to them. *And thus the officers must be as well.
For some organizations this is not appropriate, and it is chosen, upon formation, to not have members other than the officers. There are also non-profits which only have "associate members", who do not have voting privileges. Different choices were made for AMSAT, and they are here: https://www.amsat.org/articles-of-incorporation/
On 1/29/2021 09:37, Bill Booth wrote:
Yep and one wonders why I do not join AMSAT. Unless it stops soon I will leave the list (again) for a while since the stuff is of no interest to me anymore. Sounds like the nonsense before the last elections.
Honestly -bb is for open discussion so doesn't actually play off or get influenced by your membership in AMSAT. It's all up to mostly hams to get off topic and I guess I started it and I actually hate off topic too, so I apologize for the detour.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
Bob,
+1...
Let me guess, it's an AMSAT election year again...
Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 9:46 AM Bob Hammond [email protected] wrote:
I suggest we STOP the discussion of the NRA on the AMSAT-BB. What's next, ex-presidents, conspiracy theories, etc?
This stuff has a very low SNR.
Bob W7OTJ
On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 6:30 AM KENT BRITAIN [email protected] wrote:
Jim, most of what you are asking for is published in the AMSAT Journal and the Conference Proceedings. Kent WA5VJB
On Friday, January 29, 2021, 07:45:54 AM CST, John Brier < [email protected]> wrote:
The NRA leadership is also corrupt, using their members' money to personally enrich themselves so they can live lavish lifestyles. It's ironic Jerry compared his lack of ownership of the NRA to justify dismissing the idea AMSAT members have any ownership of AMSAT. Maybe he thinks NRA leadership deserves to see the NRA as mostly their organization, of which they can exercise liberal control to their benefit, not the members. I don't think he is likely to defend their corruption but the outlook that he doesn't think he has any ownership of NRA might explain why he is okay with the secretive nature of AMSAT operations.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 11:46 PM Jim Walls [email protected] wrote:
On 01/28/2021 05:23, Roy Dean wrote:
Jerry Buxton wrote:
On 1/27/2021 19:02, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote: I'm just stuck on the fact that I own the NRA too, then. Pretty cool feeling!
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
They're bankrupt. And yet Wayne LaPierre will probably still collect
1+ million dollar salary this year. Probably not a good comparison to suggest.....
--Roy K3RLD
Yes, this is massively off topic, but my one and only reply. Actually the NRA is in very good financial shape. However they are dissolving the corporation in New York and re-incorporating in Texas. The New York bankruptcy filing is the method to close out the finances on the New York corporation. This was done because the state government in New York (where the NRA has been incorporated for ages and ages) is going out of it's way to make life difficult for the NRA. By moving to a friendlier state, the NRA can continue it's operations without having to fight the state government.
BTW, I am not a SiriusXM shareholder, but I am a very long term customer, so I hope this will not cause any service interruptions... Reports are that it will not.
-- 73
Jim Walls - K6CCC [email protected] Ofc: 818-548-4804 http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/ AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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On 1/29/2021 07:45, John Brier wrote:
The NRA leadership is also corrupt, using their members' money to personally enrich themselves so they can live lavish lifestyles. It's ironic Jerry compared his lack of ownership of the NRA to justify dismissing the idea AMSAT members have any ownership of AMSAT. Maybe he thinks NRA leadership deserves to see the NRA as mostly their organization, of which they can exercise liberal control to their benefit, not the members. I don't think he is likely to defend their corruption but the outlook that he doesn't think he has any ownership of NRA might explain why he is okay with the secretive nature of AMSAT operations.
There were nowhere near enough lines in what I wrote for you to have read all of that between them.
Anyway John, everybody, keep listening for a beacon! Everybody's help counts. The Central Scrutinizer needs input.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
Not quite. AMSAT is a 501(c)3 corporation, which under the Internal Revenue Code requires its resources to be used for the educational and scientific purposes stated in its constitution and bylaws, rather than for the financial benefit of its members. In that sense, the members don't really "own" it, even though they control it through their voting power. I'll leave any further discussion to the lawyers.
73 Ray W2RS
-----Original Message----- From: Jerry Buxton [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, Jan 27, 2021 7:08 pm Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: SiriusXM's new SXM-7 satellite suffers major payload failure, feared total loss. Insured for $225M.
On 1/27/2021 19:02, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote:
So, what about AMSAT? It's a non-profit and the members own it,
I'm just stuck on the fact that I own the NRA too, then. Pretty cool feeling!
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
-----------------------------------------------------------
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participants (14)
-
Bill Booth -
Bob Hammond -
Bruce Perens -
Jean Marc Momple -
Jerry Buxton -
Jim Walls -
John Brier -
Joseph Armbruster -
KENT BRITAIN -
Marshall Toburen -
Nigel A. Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF -
Ray Soifer -
Roy Dean -
Zach Metzinger