Re: [amsat-bb] Making the Linear Satellites more accessible
I would like to add some comments to Mac's interesting email. As both a CW and SSB op on FO-29, AO7, and the XW birds, I can attest that CW operation is now almost non existent. If I was to guess CW a percentage of total satellite use, it would be less than 2%. At 2%, the CW problems you mention are not a problem. From time to time, there are clearly some issues on the linear satellites. A good example is stations using full Doppler correction colliding with stations under manual control. But in general things roll along pretty well and good satellite operators know how to deal with it. FO-29 is my favorite satellite. It has an excellent receiver and a large footprint. I've QSOed with a station using 50 mW of up link power. With some resourcefulness, I think you could beat the $1000 figure way down. I'd spend $20.00 on a SDR SHARP and see just how well you can hear the linear sats. That would be a good start, and they a fun to play with. All the best in your future satellite operations, Mike K9QHO
I beg to differ on your statement that CW ops don't cause problems. I'm still fairly new to this game but when I can hear my signal going up and down to the beat of some CW then there's definitely a problem. I think all of us who have spent any time on AO-7 has listened to it throb itself out of existence on Mode B because some op is hammering away and not minding their power. I believe part of the reason Mac brings up CW is the number of complaints he has likely read on twitter that usually goes something like "QRO CW lid flipped AO-7 again".
This is not to say we also don't have a problem with SSB as well. In both cases it appears to be related to a classic case of CHS and turning their power up to 11 just to hear themselves. Ironically, ops who are out roving are many times QRP and they just fade out as the AGC is kicked in making them hard to copy, very counterproductive.
Linear has its own set of problems but to say that CW operators being at a population of 2% can't possibly be a problem is far from the truth. It only takes one bad apple to ruin the whole passband.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Sep 10, 2017, at 8:02 PM, MICHAEL WILLIAMS k9qho67622@comcast.net wrote:
I would like to add some comments to Mac's interesting email. As both a CW and SSB op on FO-29, AO7, and the XW birds, I can attest that CW operation is now almost non existent. If I was to guess CW a percentage of total satellite use, it would be less than 2%. At 2%, the CW problems you mention are not a problem. From time to time, there are clearly some issues on the linear satellites. A good example is stations using full Doppler correction colliding with stations under manual control. But in general things roll along pretty well and good satellite operators know how to deal with it. FO-29 is my favorite satellite. It has an excellent receiver and a large footprint. I've QSOed with a station using 50 mW of up link power. With some resourcefulness, I think you could beat the $1000 figure way down. I'd spend $20.00 on a SDR SHARP and see just how well you can hear the linear sats. That would be a good start, and they a fun to play with. All the best in your future satellite opera tions, Mike K9QHO _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hello Everyone,
Between 20 and 24 July, 2017 a Slow Scan Television (SSTV) event has been performed from the ISS. It was series #7 of 12 images, with wonderful pictures taken over the last 20 years, covering the history of Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS).
The Polish Amateur Radio Union (PZK), in cooperation with ARISS and S.P. Korolev Rocket and Space Corporation ENERGIA, offer an electronic Award to Amateurs who received and decoded at least one SSTV series 7 image. This is a contribution to the commemoration of the 20th Anniversary of ARISS.
Applying for the Award are is done at http://ariss.pzk.org.pl/sstv/ via an application form. Details are provided in English and in Russian. The application window closes on 30th Dec., 2017 (23:59 UTC).
You can apply for a commemoration award by uploading at least one image to http://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/ARISS_SSTV/index.php and filling in application form.
PS. To avoid duplicates, applicants who already submitted an image of seriess 7, don't need to re-submit IMAGE(S). Filling in the application form is required.
73, Armand SP3QFE
There's some CW operation, I've been hearing more lately it seems like. I've even heard you a few times, tried to call cross mode since I didn't have a key with me.
Like Mike said, you don't have to spend $1000 to get started on linears. There are plenty of used rigs to be had for cheap, like the ft-290, older model 817s, etc. No, you probably can't go buy a brand new in the box linear sat station for the same cost as a baofeng and arrow. But with a little bit of hamfest and eBay hunting you can get on the air for much less than $1000.
I'm not sure about cw being simpler to operate on sats, I find it kind of difficult while operating portable at least. Too many things to do with not enough hands! As long as people keep their power down though, it seems to work fine as far as the transponder is concerned. I've heard just as many QRO guys in SSB causing problems as I have on CW.
Your idea for a rig is interesting Mac, and might be worth exploring. I just don't want anyone to think they have to go out and buy a brand new pair of 817s or a 9100 to operate linears! If you've got an 817, 857, IC7000, or similar all-in-wonder rig then you've already got what you need. Else, check around for some older, used v/u rigs. You'd be surprised at the amount of people who are on linears every day using setups just like I've described.
73,
- Matthew nj4y
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 10, 2017, at 23:02, MICHAEL WILLIAMS k9qho67622@comcast.net wrote:
I would like to add some comments to Mac's interesting email. As both a CW and SSB op on FO-29, AO7, and the XW birds, I can attest that CW operation is now almost non existent. If I was to guess CW a percentage of total satellite use, it would be less than 2%. At 2%, the CW problems you mention are not a problem. From time to time, there are clearly some issues on the linear satellites. A good example is stations using full Doppler correction colliding with stations under manual control. But in general things roll along pretty well and good satellite operators know how to deal with it. FO-29 is my favorite satellite. It has an excellent receiver and a large footprint. I've QSOed with a station using 50 mW of up link power. With some resourcefulness, I think you could beat the $1000 figure way down. I'd spend $20.00 on a SDR SHARP and see just how well you can hear the linear sats. That would be a good start, and they a fun to play with. All the best in your future satellite opera tions, Mike K9QHO _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Matt,
Thanks for your comments. On 09/10/2017 11:40 PM, Matthew Stevens wrote:
Like Mike said, you don't have to spend $1000 to get started on linears. There are plenty of used rigs to be had for cheap, like the ft-290, older model 817s, etc. No, you probably can't go buy a brand new in the box linear sat station for the same cost as a baofeng and arrow. But with a little bit of hamfest and eBay hunting you can get on the air for much less than $1000.
Over the years, I suppose I could have saved up my dollars and bought one of the rigs that you mentioned (wasn't even acquainted with the FT-290). I am one to tinker, though and I've always had pleasure in building and learning. Also, whatever I build, I can always repair. Don't think the same can be said for a commercial rig. Anyway, that's the choice I have made.
I'm not sure about cw being simpler to operate on sats, I find it kind of difficult while operating portable at least. Too many things to do with not enough hands! As long as people keep their power down though, it seems to work fine as far as the transponder is concerned. I've heard just as many QRO guys in SSB causing problems as I have on CW.
I'm not surewhether your are referring to something I said, or something Mike said. In my original post, I figured that while a CW-mode rig might be less expensive to field, other 'barriers' would arise.
Your idea for a rig is interesting Mac, and might be worth exploring. I just don't want anyone to think they have to go out and buy a brand new pair of 817s or a 9100 to operate linears! If you've got an 817, 857, IC7000, or similar all-in-wonder rig then you've already got what you need. Else, check around for some older, used v/u rigs. You'd be surprised at the amount of people who are on linears every day using setups just like I've described.
I understand what you are saying Matt. I'm truly curious,though, to see how low the cost of a rig can be driven. The use of DSB vs SSB in a possible venue of really driving down the cost, while maintaining voice-mode compatibility. The only downside is the doubling of bandwidth of the channel and the attendant lower power efficiency of DSB compared to SSB.
73,
Mac / AE5PH
On Sep 12, 2017, at 6:50 PM, Mac A. Cody maccody@att.net wrote:
Also, whatever I build, I can always repair. Don't think the same can be said for a commercial rig.
I've found that ham gear is probably the most user serviceable you can get commercially.
When NJ7H was nearing the DP field in NWT my downlink 817 decided it would quit receiving. After downloading the service manual and following the schematic I found it to be a failed shift register that switches filters, TX/RX, etc. Not having the time to get a new part I removed the IC, installed a toggle switch and manually switched between VHF and UHF as I needed. It's still this way, the Franken-817. I only paid $200 for it used so I'll probably replace it before investing in a proper repair.
With a very modest amount of testing equipment and no EE degree I was still able to repair a commercial rig all while under the pressure of missing some grids that will probably never be on again. Most rewarding grids I've ever picked up.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
Mike,
I am very offended that you believe that "[those] grids...will probably never be on again". My far northern adventures are just beginning, that was merely a taste.
73,
Gabe NJ7H/retired VE6NJH/OT
On Sep 12, 2017, at 10:05 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
On Sep 12, 2017, at 6:50 PM, Mac A. Cody maccody@att.net wrote:
Also, whatever I build, I can always repair. Don't think the same can be said for a commercial rig.
I've found that ham gear is probably the most user serviceable you can get commercially.
When NJ7H was nearing the DP field in NWT my downlink 817 decided it would quit receiving. After downloading the service manual and following the schematic I found it to be a failed shift register that switches filters, TX/RX, etc. Not having the time to get a new part I removed the IC, installed a toggle switch and manually switched between VHF and UHF as I needed. It's still this way, the Franken-817. I only paid $200 for it used so I'll probably replace it before investing in a proper repair.
With a very modest amount of testing equipment and no EE degree I was still able to repair a commercial rig all while under the pressure of missing some grids that will probably never be on again. Most rewarding grids I've ever picked up.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Gabe,
My apologies. I must have mistaken VE6NJH for NJ7H/VE8/retired. We shall try to work them again.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Sep 12, 2017, at 8:20 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
Mike,
I am very offended that you believe that "[those] grids...will probably never be on again". My far northern adventures are just beginning, that was merely a taste.
73,
Gabe NJ7H/retired VE6NJH/OT
On Sep 12, 2017, at 10:05 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
On Sep 12, 2017, at 6:50 PM, Mac A. Cody maccody@att.net wrote:
Also, whatever I build, I can always repair. Don't think the same can be said for a commercial rig.
I've found that ham gear is probably the most user serviceable you can get commercially.
When NJ7H was nearing the DP field in NWT my downlink 817 decided it would quit receiving. After downloading the service manual and following the schematic I found it to be a failed shift register that switches filters, TX/RX, etc. Not having the time to get a new part I removed the IC, installed a toggle switch and manually switched between VHF and UHF as I needed. It's still this way, the Franken-817. I only paid $200 for it used so I'll probably replace it before investing in a proper repair.
With a very modest amount of testing equipment and no EE degree I was still able to repair a commercial rig all while under the pressure of missing some grids that will probably never be on again. Most rewarding grids I've ever picked up.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Michael,
Thanks for your comments. I have an SDRplay RSP2 that I'm using as the receiver component of a full-duplex transceiver that I am putting together. The SDRplay has already been demonstrated by others to be capable of receiving amateur satellite transmissions. I've also researched some of the 'higher quality' RTL-SDR dongles to obtain a lower price-point. Hopefully, when completed, my transceiver will cost significantly less than the $1000 figure I mentioned. I hope to freely share the design to enable others to access the linear satellites for a relatively low cost.
73,
Mac / AE5PH
On 09/10/2017 10:02 PM, MICHAEL WILLIAMS wrote:
I would like to add some comments to Mac's interesting email. As both a CW and SSB op on FO-29, AO7, and the XW birds, I can attest that CW operation is now almost non existent. If I was to guess CW a percentage of total satellite use, it would be less than 2%. At 2%, the CW problems you mention are not a problem. From time to time, there are clearly some issues on the linear satellites. A good example is stations using full Doppler correction colliding with stations under manual control. But in general things roll along pretty well and good satellite operators know how to deal with it. FO-29 is my favorite satellite. It has an excellent receiver and a large footprint. I've QSOed with a station using 50 mW of up link power. With some resourcefulness, I think you could beat the $1000 figure way down. I'd spend $20.00 on a SDR SHARP and see just how well you can hear the linear sats. That would be a good start, and they a fun to play with. All the best in your future satellite opera tions, Mike K9QHO _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (6)
-
Armand SP3QFE -
Gabriel Zeifman -
Mac A. Cody -
Matthew Stevens -
MICHAEL WILLIAMS -
Mike Diehl