A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-91
Hi!
Now that AO-91 has been going strong for about 3 weeks, maybe it is time to come up with something for it on Experimenter's Wednesdays, like we have seen with SSTV on AO-85. Although I think the SSTV has run its course and maybe something else should be tried, I'm not suggesting any particular change to AO-85 on Wednesdays. This is only intended as a suggestion for AO-91.
After Sean KX9X published his recent document with a list of good operating practices for FM satellites:
https://www.amsat.org/fm-satellites-good-operating-practices-for-beginning-a...
my suggestion would be a way to encourage this, especially focusing on one item. I tweeted a little earlier this afternoon the following:
"An AO-91 Experimenter's Wednesday suggestion: 5W or less, ideally using HTs or portable setups & handheld directional antennas or whips/duckies. Let's take full advantage of how well this satellite hears & can be heard on the ground."
One comment I received on Twitter questioned having something for Experimenter's Wednesdays on both AO-85 and AO-91, suggesting that another day of the week should be used for AO-91. I disagreed with that, given that it is "Experimenter's Wednesday". Unlike with AO-85 where the focus has been SSTV, my suggestion would still allow for FM voice QSOs on AO-91 - but with a focus on using less power and smaller stations. This would also go directly to the recommendations that were recently published.
For those who may be concerned about doing something like this on 2 of the 3 FM satellites, there has been Experimenter's Wednesday SSTV activity for a while now. Most of the time, this has been done when we only had two working FM satellites (AO-85, SO-50). Maybe we could see some coast-to-coast QSOs on AO-91 where both stations are using power levels at 50mW or 100mW, for example.
Thanks, and 73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Sounds interesting! How about (for the day) we add our transmitter power to the exchange, for example "FN03 100mW". It will help reinforce the concept that only minimal power is required. 73, KenVE3HLS
From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:27 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-91
Hi!
Now that AO-91 has been going strong for about 3 weeks, maybe it is time to come up with something for it on Experimenter's Wednesdays, like we have seen with SSTV on AO-85. Although I think the SSTV has run its course and maybe something else should be tried, I'm not suggesting any particular change to AO-85 on Wednesdays. This is only intended as a suggestion for AO-91.
After Sean KX9X published his recent document with a list of good operating practices for FM satellites:
https://www.amsat.org/fm-satellites-good-operating-practices-for-beginning-a...
my suggestion would be a way to encourage this, especially focusing on one item. I tweeted a little earlier this afternoon the following:
"An AO-91 Experimenter's Wednesday suggestion: 5W or less, ideally using HTs or portable setups & handheld directional antennas or whips/duckies. Let's take full advantage of how well this satellite hears & can be heard on the ground."
One comment I received on Twitter questioned having something for Experimenter's Wednesdays on both AO-85 and AO-91, suggesting that another day of the week should be used for AO-91. I disagreed with that, given that it is "Experimenter's Wednesday". Unlike with AO-85 where the focus has been SSTV, my suggestion would still allow for FM voice QSOs on AO-91 - but with a focus on using less power and smaller stations. This would also go directly to the recommendations that were recently published.
For those who may be concerned about doing something like this on 2 of the 3 FM satellites, there has been Experimenter's Wednesday SSTV activity for a while now. Most of the time, this has been done when we only had two working FM satellites (AO-85, SO-50). Maybe we could see some coast-to-coast QSOs on AO-91 where both stations are using power levels at 50mW or 100mW, for example.
Thanks, and 73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Ken,
I'm fine with that. I have been doing some of that already when I work AO-91 with some of the HT/antenna combinations I have used, and also varying power levels. I even mention the elevation at my QTH on some transmissions, in part so I have a record of that when trying something different.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 10:38 PM, Ken Alexander k.alexander@rogers.com wrote:
Sounds interesting! How about (for the day) we add our transmitter power to the exchange, for example "FN03 100mW". It will help reinforce the concept that only minimal power is required.
73,
Ken VE3HLS
Patrick,
This is certainly a fine idea, which may very well gain traction. If I may, though, I'd like to propose an alternative experiment. Given the recent (and ongoing) disaster and recovery in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria,I was wondering how amateur LEO satellites could be used for emergency response (I know that the use case for the Phase IV satellite terminal is emergency response.). While DX and chasing grid squares is great fun (I do both myself.), I am hoping that there might be a way that LEO satellites could be used as a public service resource.
Traditionally, long-distance emergency response has relied upon shortwave communications. It takes a bit of infrastructure cost to set up and operate a shortwave station. Effective antenna deployment, available transceiver equipment, and a sufficient power supply are considerations to be addressed. Perhaps, a pair of hand-held radios (or single full- duplex), an Arrow antenna, and a computer (Raspberry Pi) could be used to send and receive emergency messages via LEO satellites and might be a viable alternative. The messages could be sent digitally via, say, Narrow Band Emergency Messaging System (NBEMS) to improve reliability of transcription.
I'm sure that you or someone else might say "Use the APRS birds for emergency response messaging.". That may be a fair statement, but my idea might, at least, be an interesting experiment to try. An experiment is still valuable when it shows that an idea does not work!
73,
Mac Cody / AE5PH
On 12/14/2017 04:26 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
Hi!
Now that AO-91 has been going strong for about 3 weeks, maybe it is time to come up with something for it on Experimenter's Wednesdays, like we have seen with SSTV on AO-85. Although I think the SSTV has run its course and maybe something else should be tried, I'm not suggesting any particular change to AO-85 on Wednesdays. This is only intended as a suggestion for AO-91.
After Sean KX9X published his recent document with a list of good operating practices for FM satellites:
https://www.amsat.org/fm-satellites-good-operating-practices-for-beginning-a...
my suggestion would be a way to encourage this, especially focusing on one item. I tweeted a little earlier this afternoon the following:
"An AO-91 Experimenter's Wednesday suggestion: 5W or less, ideally using HTs or portable setups & handheld directional antennas or whips/duckies. Let's take full advantage of how well this satellite hears & can be heard on the ground."
One comment I received on Twitter questioned having something for Experimenter's Wednesdays on both AO-85 and AO-91, suggesting that another day of the week should be used for AO-91. I disagreed with that, given that it is "Experimenter's Wednesday". Unlike with AO-85 where the focus has been SSTV, my suggestion would still allow for FM voice QSOs on AO-91 - but with a focus on using less power and smaller stations. This would also go directly to the recommendations that were recently published.
For those who may be concerned about doing something like this on 2 of the 3 FM satellites, there has been Experimenter's Wednesday SSTV activity for a while now. Most of the time, this has been done when we only had two working FM satellites (AO-85, SO-50). Maybe we could see some coast-to-coast QSOs on AO-91 where both stations are using power levels at 50mW or 100mW, for example.
Thanks, and 73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Mac!
You offer a good idea. I thought about things like that, but came back to the simple fact that AO-91 still has the "new car smell" for being the newest and (in my opinion) best performing FM satellite we currently have. Especially given the recent series of messages discussing the new document Sean KX9X wrote, it might be better to hold off on anything that limits the use of AO-91 to those who would have a computer or other accessories to do the experiment. Once we have another one or two FM satellites, Fox-1C and/or Fox-1D, then it would be a great time to have something else for the weekly experiments.
The APRS-capable satellites might be better for what you propose, yes. Unfortunately, there is the issue of the misuse of 145.825 MHz by stations automatically beaconing their existence. Any experiment using ISS or NO-84 would be tougher as you move east across the continental USA, as well as some other parts of the world.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 1:53 AM, Mac A. Cody maccody@att.net wrote:
Patrick,
This is certainly a fine idea, which may very well gain traction. If I may, though, I'd like to propose an alternative experiment. Given the recent (and ongoing) disaster and recovery in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria,I was wondering how amateur LEO satellites could be used for emergency response (I know that the use case for the Phase IV satellite terminal is emergency response.). While DX and chasing grid squares is great fun (I do both myself.), I am hoping that there might be a way that LEO satellites could be used as a public service resource.
Traditionally, long-distance emergency response has relied upon shortwave communications. It takes a bit of infrastructure cost to set up and operate a shortwave station. Effective antenna deployment, available transceiver equipment, and a sufficient power supply are considerations to be addressed. Perhaps, a pair of hand-held radios (or single full- duplex), an Arrow antenna, and a computer (Raspberry Pi) could be used to send and receive emergency messages via LEO satellites and might be a viable alternative. The messages could be sent digitally via, say, Narrow Band Emergency Messaging System (NBEMS) to improve reliability of transcription.
I'm sure that you or someone else might say "Use the APRS birds for emergency response messaging.". That may be a fair statement, but my idea might, at least, be an interesting experiment to try. An experiment is still valuable when it shows that an idea does not work!
73,
Mac Cody / AE5PH
Patrick,
If, as you stated, SSTV has run its course, maybe Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-85 could be changed to experiment with EMCOMM using NBEMS, thereby keeping AO-91 as free as possible. Once that has run its course, then move on to another experiment. That would keep things fresh. I think a report on each experiment would be an interesting series of articles in the AMSAT Journal. I think continuous experimentation is a good thing!
Mac Cody - AE5PH
On 12/14/2017 08:33 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
Hi Mac!
You offer a good idea. I thought about things like that, but came back to the simple fact that AO-91 still has the "new car smell" for being the newest and (in my opinion) best performing FM satellite we currently have. Especially given the recent series of messages discussing the new document Sean KX9X wrote, it might be better to hold off on anything that limits the use of AO-91 to those who would have a computer or other accessories to do the experiment. Once we have another one or two FM satellites, Fox-1C and/or Fox-1D, then it would be a great time to have something else for the weekly experiments.
The APRS-capable satellites might be better for what you propose, yes. Unfortunately, there is the issue of the misuse of 145.825 MHz by stations automatically beaconing their existence. Any experiment using ISS or NO-84 would be tougher as you move east across the continental USA, as well as some other parts of the world.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 1:53 AM, Mac A. Cody <maccody@att.net mailto:maccody@att.net>wrote:
Patrick, This is certainly a fine idea, which may very well gain traction. If I may, though, I'd like to propose an alternative experiment. Given the recent (and ongoing) disaster and recovery in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria,I was wondering how amateur LEO satellites could be used for emergency response (I know that the use case for the Phase IV satellite terminal is emergency response.). While DX and chasing grid squares is great fun (I do both myself.), I am hoping that there might be a way that LEO satellites could be used as a public service resource. Traditionally, long-distance emergency response has relied upon shortwave communications. It takes a bit of infrastructure cost to set up and operate a shortwave station. Effective antenna deployment, available transceiver equipment, and a sufficient power supply are considerations to be addressed. Perhaps, a pair of hand-held radios (or single full- duplex), an Arrow antenna, and a computer (Raspberry Pi) could be used to send and receive emergency messages via LEO satellites and might be a viable alternative. The messages could be sent digitally via, say, Narrow Band Emergency Messaging System (NBEMS) to improve reliability of transcription. I'm sure that you or someone else might say "Use the APRS birds for emergency response messaging.". That may be a fair statement, but my idea might, at least, be an interesting experiment to try. An experiment is still valuable when it shows that an idea does not work! 73, Mac Cody / AE5PH
Mac,
Now that's a good idea. Otherwise, Wednesdays on AO-85 could be called SSTV Wednesdays, if that's the extent of "Experimenter's Wednesdays" for that satellite. I would be inclined to try NBEMS, something I've never used.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Thursday, December 14, 2017, Mac A. Cody maccody@att.net wrote:
Patrick,
If, as you stated, SSTV has run its course, maybe Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-85 could be changed to experiment with EMCOMM using NBEMS, thereby keeping AO-91 as free as possible. Once that has run its course, then move on to another experiment. That would keep things fresh. I think a report on each experiment would be an interesting series of articles in the AMSAT Journal. I think continuous experimentation is a good thing!
Mac Cody - AE5PH
I've always been curious about NBEMS as well, Mac.
There is a fair amount of info on the subject online, but could you point me to any particular orientation how-to that might be geared to someone using it in a more informal setting such as how we might use it via an FM satellite?
-Scott, K4KDR
========================
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 12:29 AM To: Mac A. Cody Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-91
Mac,
Now that's a good idea. Otherwise, Wednesdays on AO-85 could be called SSTV Wednesdays, if that's the extent of "Experimenter's Wednesdays" for that satellite. I would be inclined to try NBEMS, something I've never used.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Thursday, December 14, 2017, Mac A. Cody maccody@att.net wrote:
Patrick,
If, as you stated, SSTV has run its course, maybe Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-85 could be changed to experiment with EMCOMM using NBEMS, thereby keeping AO-91 as free as possible. Once that has run its course, then move on to another experiment. That would keep things fresh. I think a report on each experiment would be an interesting series of articles in the AMSAT Journal. I think continuous experimentation is a good thing!
Mac Cody - AE5PH
Scott,
I'm embarrassed to say that I've never done anything personally with NBEMS. What I knowabout it isfrom a presentation at my radio club. We have had a group that was experimenting with NBEMS on the club repeater. Don't know whether they are still doing it, though. They weren't using any special interface between radios and computers - speaker output to microphone input in both directions. I'd like to try NBEMS on the FM birds simply as a way of experimenting with using LEO birds for emergency response.
As you mentioned, there is a lot of sites out there describing how to use NBEMS using Fldigi/Flmsg. I have not seen anything specific, yet, regarding to using NBEMS over a satellite. I'm sure that there are attendant challenges and opportunities doing so. Doppler shift and signal quality will be the main challenges. MT65 appears to be the modulation scheme of choice. Full duplex operation would be helpful, as you could monitor your own signal to verify its quality and how well the message got through.
I'll have to investigate further.
73,
Mac Cody - AE5PH
On 12/14/2017 11:38 PM, Scott wrote:
I've always been curious about NBEMS as well, Mac.
There is a fair amount of info on the subject online, but could you point me to any particular orientation how-to that might be geared to someone using it in a more informal setting such as how we might use it via an FM satellite?
-Scott, K4KDR
========================
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 12:29 AM To: Mac A. Cody Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-91
Mac,
Now that's a good idea. Otherwise, Wednesdays on AO-85 could be called SSTV Wednesdays, if that's the extent of "Experimenter's Wednesdays" for that satellite. I would be inclined to try NBEMS, something I've never used.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Thursday, December 14, 2017, Mac A. Cody maccody@att.net wrote:
Patrick,
If, as you stated, SSTV has run its course, maybe Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-85 could be changed to experiment with EMCOMM using NBEMS, thereby keeping AO-91 as free as possible. Once that has run its course, then move on to another experiment. That would keep things fresh. I think a report on each experiment would be an interesting series of articles in the AMSAT Journal. I think continuous experimentation is a good thing!
Mac Cody - AE5PH
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
It seems to me that the limiting factor for using LEO satellites as an Emergency Response of any scale, would the short amount of time of a given pass and the limited number of usable passes a day over an area needing the response. I’m not sure experimentation would find ways around this limitation. But of course experimentation is just that.
Perhaps we need to get out of the box for how Experimenter’s Wednesdays work. What modes can we adapt? Can we incorporate an educational initiative, similar to ISS school contacts? Remote control APRS messaging as Mark Spencer demonstrated with MAREA? I know these seem like we are limiting contacts to just a few people, but they can reach hundreds of students and introduce satellite and radio enthusiasm to another generation of school children and millennial.
73 EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 15, 2017, at 1:26 AM, Mac A. Cody maccody@att.net wrote:
Scott,
I'm embarrassed to say that I've never done anything personally with NBEMS. What I knowabout it isfrom a presentation at my radio club. We have had a group that was experimenting with NBEMS on the club repeater. Don't know whether they are still doing it, though. They weren't using any special interface between radios and computers - speaker output to microphone input in both directions. I'd like to try NBEMS on the FM birds simply as a way of experimenting with using LEO birds for emergency response.
As you mentioned, there is a lot of sites out there describing how to use NBEMS using Fldigi/Flmsg. I have not seen anything specific, yet, regarding to using NBEMS over a satellite. I'm sure that there are attendant challenges and opportunities doing so. Doppler shift and signal quality will be the main challenges. MT65 appears to be the modulation scheme of choice. Full duplex operation would be helpful, as you could monitor your own signal to verify its quality and how well the message got through.
I'll have to investigate further.
73,
Mac Cody - AE5PH
On 12/14/2017 11:38 PM, Scott wrote: I've always been curious about NBEMS as well, Mac.
There is a fair amount of info on the subject online, but could you point me to any particular orientation how-to that might be geared to someone using it in a more informal setting such as how we might use it via an FM satellite?
-Scott, K4KDR
========================
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 12:29 AM To: Mac A. Cody Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-91
Mac,
Now that's a good idea. Otherwise, Wednesdays on AO-85 could be called SSTV Wednesdays, if that's the extent of "Experimenter's Wednesdays" for that satellite. I would be inclined to try NBEMS, something I've never used.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Thursday, December 14, 2017, Mac A. Cody maccody@att.net wrote:
Patrick,
If, as you stated, SSTV has run its course, maybe Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-85 could be changed to experiment with EMCOMM using NBEMS, thereby keeping AO-91 as free as possible. Once that has run its course, then move on to another experiment. That would keep things fresh. I think a report on each experiment would be an interesting series of articles in the AMSAT Journal. I think continuous experimentation is a good thing!
Mac Cody - AE5PH
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
EMike mentioned:
It seems to me that the limiting factor for using LEO satellites as an Emergency Response of any scale, would the short amount of time of a given pass and the limited number of usable passes a day over an area needing the response.
I agree, a verbal status report or request for assistance for an island-wide or city-wide disaster (think Puerto Rico and Houston) likely would not fit into the time for a LEO pass of a single satellite.
But, us ingenious ham radio operator types perhaps have the basis of sending compressed data which conveys a lot of information. Packed into the bytes of telemetry messages we find out about voltage, current, solar cells, temperature, etc. We use a predefined interface document to decode the string of bytes.
How about using a predefined disaster status data stream that all shelters (like scattered around an entire island) to encode 1) head count of staff 2) head count of victims 3) electrical power 4)drinking water 5) more supplies needed 6) need critical assistance. This way EOC staff could develop and maintain a system-wide status. Coordinating supplies or critical messages may also need better paths to complete than 10 minutes of satellite time.
We fill data warehouses with telemetry bytes as ground stations around the world receive those defined telemetry streams and forward them. Conversely, if multiple LEO satellites support a disaster-status protocol then EOC staff could receive more frequent updates (having to tune and track a different satellite though). In this case the EOC uses multiple satellites vs. one data warehouse with multiple users.
We'd need future cubesat missions capable of supporting a disaster telemetry stream. If we try something like this now it likely could see proof of concept with a single cubesat.
Hoping someday we'll replace this cubesat approach with the AMSAT Phase 4 groundstation. That will be like having a wireless phone line between an EOC and every shelter.
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM k9jkm@amsat.org
Maybe a question for engineering, but, can the cross band FM receivers aboard the LEO repeat SSTV and APRS? I think they don’t care if it’s voice or whatever.
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 15, 2017, at 9:40 AM, JoAnne K9JKM joanne.k9jkm@gmail.com wrote:
EMike mentioned:
It seems to me that the limiting factor for using LEO satellites as an Emergency Response of any scale, would the short amount of time of a given pass and the limited number of usable passes a day over an area needing the response.
I agree, a verbal status report or request for assistance for an island-wide or city-wide disaster (think Puerto Rico and Houston) likely would not fit into the time for a LEO pass of a single satellite.
But, us ingenious ham radio operator types perhaps have the basis of sending compressed data which conveys a lot of information. Packed into the bytes of telemetry messages we find out about voltage, current, solar cells, temperature, etc. We use a predefined interface document to decode the string of bytes.
How about using a predefined disaster status data stream that all shelters (like scattered around an entire island) to encode 1) head count of staff 2) head count of victims 3) electrical power 4)drinking water 5) more supplies needed 6) need critical assistance. This way EOC staff could develop and maintain a system-wide status. Coordinating supplies or critical messages may also need better paths to complete than 10 minutes of satellite time.
We fill data warehouses with telemetry bytes as ground stations around the world receive those defined telemetry streams and forward them. Conversely, if multiple LEO satellites support a disaster-status protocol then EOC staff could receive more frequent updates (having to tune and track a different satellite though). In this case the EOC uses multiple satellites vs. one data warehouse with multiple users.
We'd need future cubesat missions capable of supporting a disaster telemetry stream. If we try something like this now it likely could see proof of concept with a single cubesat.
Hoping someday we'll replace this cubesat approach with the AMSAT Phase 4 groundstation. That will be like having a wireless phone line between an EOC and every shelter.
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM k9jkm@amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Yes, AO-85 has been transmitting SSTV every Wednesday for quite some time now.
Jeff WE4B
On Friday, December 15, 2017, E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote:
Maybe a question for engineering, but, can the cross band FM receivers aboard the LEO repeat SSTV and APRS? I think they don’t care if it’s voice or whatever.
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 15, 2017, at 9:40 AM, JoAnne K9JKM joanne.k9jkm@gmail.com
wrote:
EMike mentioned:
It seems to me that the limiting factor for using LEO satellites as an Emergency Response of any scale, would the short amount of time of a
given
pass and the limited number of usable passes a day over an area needing
the
response.
I agree, a verbal status report or request for assistance for an
island-wide or city-wide disaster (think Puerto Rico and Houston) likely would not fit into the time for a LEO pass of a single satellite.
But, us ingenious ham radio operator types perhaps have the basis of
sending compressed data which conveys a lot of information. Packed into the bytes of telemetry messages we find out about voltage, current, solar cells, temperature, etc. We use a predefined interface document to decode the string of bytes.
How about using a predefined disaster status data stream that all
shelters (like scattered around an entire island) to encode 1) head count of staff 2) head count of victims 3) electrical power 4)drinking water 5) more supplies needed 6) need critical assistance. This way EOC staff could develop and maintain a system-wide status. Coordinating supplies or critical messages may also need better paths to complete than 10 minutes of satellite time.
We fill data warehouses with telemetry bytes as ground stations around
the world receive those defined telemetry streams and forward them. Conversely, if multiple LEO satellites support a disaster-status protocol then EOC staff could receive more frequent updates (having to tune and track a different satellite though). In this case the EOC uses multiple satellites vs. one data warehouse with multiple users.
We'd need future cubesat missions capable of supporting a disaster
telemetry stream. If we try something like this now it likely could see proof of concept with a single cubesat.
Hoping someday we'll replace this cubesat approach with the AMSAT Phase
4 groundstation. That will be like having a wireless phone line between an EOC and every shelter.
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM k9jkm@amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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JoAnne and EMike,
That is why I suggested as an experiment the use of NBEMS in my original post:
"The messages could be sent digitally via, say, Narrow Band Emergency Messaging System (NBEMS) to improve reliability of transcription."
Yes, voice would be slow and inaccurate. Using digital data would send more information quicker. NBEMS can be use send various ICS forms, weather reports, and ARRL Radiograms. The data streams you suggest are already supported through NBEMS. NBEMS is designed precisely for this type of application.
NBEMS can work on SSB as well as FM modes. Given that there are already a sizable number of amateur satellites orbiting the earth, and more coming, there would be many opportunities to pass traffic over LEO satellites. The transponder birds would offer multiple channels for this activity. I'm sure, though, that there will be those that shudder over the thought of multiple data streams being passed over the linear birds at one time. Data transmissions would have to be disciplined.
73,
Mac AE5PH
On 12/15/2017 08:40 AM, JoAnne K9JKM wrote:
EMike mentioned:
It seems to me that the limiting factor for using LEO satellites as an Emergency Response of any scale, would the short amount of time of a given pass and the limited number of usable passes a day over an area needing the response.
I agree, a verbal status report or request for assistance for an island-wide or city-wide disaster (think Puerto Rico and Houston) likely would not fit into the time for a LEO pass of a single satellite.
But, us ingenious ham radio operator types perhaps have the basis of sending compressed data which conveys a lot of information. Packed into the bytes of telemetry messages we find out about voltage, current, solar cells, temperature, etc. We use a predefined interface document to decode the string of bytes.
How about using a predefined disaster status data stream that all shelters (like scattered around an entire island) to encode 1) head count of staff 2) head count of victims 3) electrical power 4)drinking water 5) more supplies needed 6) need critical assistance. This way EOC staff could develop and maintain a system-wide status. Coordinating supplies or critical messages may also need better paths to complete than 10 minutes of satellite time.
We fill data warehouses with telemetry bytes as ground stations around the world receive those defined telemetry streams and forward them. Conversely, if multiple LEO satellites support a disaster-status protocol then EOC staff could receive more frequent updates (having to tune and track a different satellite though). In this case the EOC uses multiple satellites vs. one data warehouse with multiple users.
We'd need future cubesat missions capable of supporting a disaster telemetry stream. If we try something like this now it likely could see proof of concept with a single cubesat.
Hoping someday we'll replace this cubesat approach with the AMSAT Phase 4 groundstation. That will be like having a wireless phone line between an EOC and every shelter.
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM k9jkm@amsat.org
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Hi Mac,
That is why I suggested as an experiment the use of NBEMS
An excellent recommendation. I'll have a chance, I bet, after the holidays to look into testing with NBEMS via satellite. We have a few months to get ready ... I retire at the end of March 2018. I'm keeping my nursing license active when I retire so I can volunteer for disaster relief projects. When I go out I'll need one of these :-)
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM k9jkm@amsat.org
participants (7)
-
E.Mike McCardel -
Jeff Johns -
JoAnne K9JKM -
Ken Alexander -
Mac A. Cody -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Scott