Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 296 (Waving an antenna)
You miss the point. Of course there is room for all types and not once did I suggest that anyone using a handheld antenna is some sort of "low life". I'm just saying that IMO the easysat mentality has been run in the ground as a selling point for this branch of the hobby. AMSAT needs to break out of that mold and do something new! I'm begging! But, it falls on deaf ears. BTW, that doesn't mean pie in the sky stuff that everyone knows has no chance to come to fruition. I'm not that gullible. I'll crawl back in my hole now, lurk on the reflector and hope for better days when we are pushing the envelope again rather than becoming an also ran. I guess my dues money and paltry donations don't make a difference to the organization. None the less, I will continue to withhold them till I see some change, although I won't be holding my breath! Again, just one man's opinion but if we just continue to maintain the status quo as it stands now, I see a dim future for this organization. Sigh...
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:31:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Brad Smith corlissbs@aol.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Waving An Antenna Message-ID: 1624430397.216251.1564684267582@mail.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
<I don't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with easy. I just think, as a selling point, it's run it's course is all. How many times are you going to watch a guy at a hamfest with an HT and a handheld? antenna exchange grid squares? I would think sooner or later people just walk on by.? "Seen it already, where's the new rigs?" > There is room in this hobby for all types of radio/satellite contact. I have recently introduced two other hams to satellites by "waving an antenna." They both bought Arrow 2 antennas and now are having great fun with the birds. If I had a rotor system on a tripod, these people would have passed it up as too complicated. Our ham club is going to build our own stressed moxon antennas so everyone can work the birds. Depending if one is trying to get people into the satellite hobby or dazzle them with technology, one has to tailor the display to the crowd. Yes, I belong to the KISS club. (Keep It Simple Stupid) But on the other hand, I do work the SSB birds, receive SSTV images from the ISS and am learning to send packets. I welcome the new ideas. If I have to buy a new radio, so be it. If I have to pay for some air time, so be it. If I have a learning curve, so be it. But I still will be the low life out there waving an Arrow 2 antenna because it is fun, gets the job done, and still gi ves me a thrill. And all my neighbors think I should have a tin foil hat as I stand in my yard with my antenna in the air.? Brad KC9UQR
On Fri, Aug 02, 2019 at 11:57:33AM -0400, Michael via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Again, just one man's opinion but if we just continue to maintain the status quo as it stands now, I see a dim future for this organization. Sigh...
Michael,
I certainly see some excellent changes afoot with the GOLF program, which AMSAT has backronym-ed into Greater Orbit Larger Footprint. Please do check out https://www.amsat.org/category/amsat-news/golf/ regularly for updates.
Building, testing, and launching a satellite is a complex process -- more complex than I would have originally suspected. The process takes time, and AMSAT is limited by ITAR as to what it can share. Want to make a change? Write your senators and representatives about the insane idea of considering amateur satellites as potential space weapons!
It is easy for a challenger to claim that they'll do something amazing that the incumbent board members haven't done. However, I'd put my money on actual progress, not talk. AMSAT has regularly launched LEO sats, with one single failure in recent history. Fox-1E will carry a linear transponder and is the next one to go up.[1]
Push the envelope! Get ready for 5GHz up / 10GHz down, experiment with digital modes over linear transponders using appropriate power, work on a portable setup for new hams, or publish an article. The future is yours to define!
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
Golf includes a 5/10 GHz SDR transponder. Does that qualify?
https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-...
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Michael via AMSAT-BB Sent: Friday, August 02, 2019 11:58 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 296 (Waving an antenna)
You miss the point. Of course there is room for all types and not once did I suggest that anyone using a handheld antenna is some sort of "low life". I'm just saying that IMO the easysat mentality has been run in the ground as a selling point for this branch of the hobby. AMSAT needs to break out of that mold and do something new! I'm begging! But, it falls on deaf ears. BTW, that doesn't mean pie in the sky stuff that everyone knows has no chance to come to fruition. I'm not that gullible. I'll crawl back in my hole now, lurk on the reflector and hope for better days when we are pushing the envelope again rather than becoming an also ran. I guess my dues money and paltry donations don't make a difference to the organization. None the less, I will continue to withhold them till I see some change, although I won't be holding my breath! Again, just one man's opinion but if we just continue to maintain the status quo as it stands now, I see a dim future for this organization. Sigh...
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:31:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Brad Smith corlissbs@aol.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Waving An Antenna Message-ID: 1624430397.216251.1564684267582@mail.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
<I don't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with easy. I just think, as a selling point, it's run it's course is all. How many times are you going to watch a guy at a hamfest with an HT and a handheld? antenna exchange grid squares? I would think sooner or later people just walk on by.? "Seen it already, where's the new rigs?" > There is room in this hobby for all types of radio/satellite contact. I have recently introduced two other hams to satellites by "waving an antenna." They both bought Arrow 2 antennas and now are having great fun with the birds. If I had a rotor system on a tripod, these people would have passed it up as too complicated. Our ham club is going to build our own stressed moxon antennas so everyone can work the birds. Depending if one is trying to get people into the satellite hobby or dazzle them with technology, one has to tailor the display to the crowd. Yes, I belong to the KISS club. (Keep It Simple Stupid) But on the other hand, I do work the SSB birds, receive SSTV images from the ISS and am learning to send packets. I welcome the new ideas. If I have to buy a new radio, so be it. If I have to pay for some air time, so be it. If I have a learning curve, so be it. But I still will be the low life out there waving an Arrow 2 antenna because it is fun, gets the job done, and still gi ves me a thrill. And all my neighbors think I should have a tin foil hat as I stand in my yard with my antenna in the air.? Brad KC9UQR
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
What did I say about "pie in the sky" and not being gullible? I'll believe it when I see it. Some years back when I was still a member the mission statement had some bold proclamation about " daily coverage from geostationary satellites" How'd that work out for us? AMSAT DE has a beautiful and capable sat languishing in storage somewhere too don't they? That was once a lofty goal. The best laid plans and all...
Y'all have fun,
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
On 8/2/2019 12:21 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
Golf includes a 5/10 GHz SDR transponder. Does that qualify?
https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-...
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Michael via AMSAT-BB Sent: Friday, August 02, 2019 11:58 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 296 (Waving an antenna)
You miss the point. Of course there is room for all types and not once did I suggest that anyone using a handheld antenna is some sort of "low life". I'm just saying that IMO the easysat mentality has been run in the ground as a selling point for this branch of the hobby. AMSAT needs to break out of that mold and do something new! I'm begging! But, it falls on deaf ears. BTW, that doesn't mean pie in the sky stuff that everyone knows has no chance to come to fruition. I'm not that gullible. I'll crawl back in my hole now, lurk on the reflector and hope for better days when we are pushing the envelope again rather than becoming an also ran. I guess my dues money and paltry donations don't make a difference to the organization. None the less, I will continue to withhold them till I see some change, although I won't be holding my breath! Again, just one man's opinion but if we just continue to maintain the status quo as it stands now, I see a dim future for this organization. Sigh...
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:31:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Brad Smith corlissbs@aol.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Waving An Antenna Message-ID: 1624430397.216251.1564684267582@mail.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
<I don't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with easy. I just think, as a selling point, it's run it's course is all. How many times are you going to watch a guy at a hamfest with an HT and a handheld? antenna exchange grid squares? I would think sooner or later people just walk on by.? "Seen it already, where's the new rigs?" > There is room in this hobby for all types of radio/satellite contact. I have recently introduced two other hams to satellites by "waving an antenna." They both bought Arrow 2 antennas and now are having great fun with the birds. If I had a rotor system on a tripod, these people would have passed it up as too complicated. Our ham club is going to build our own stressed moxon antennas so everyone can work the birds. Depending if one is trying to get people into the satellite hobby or dazzle them with technology, one has to tailor the display to the crowd. Yes, I belong to the KISS club. (Keep It Simple Stupid) But on the other hand, I do work the SSB birds, receive SSTV images from the ISS and am learning to send packets. I welcome the new ideas. If I have to buy a new radio, so be it. If I have to pay for some air time, so be it. If I have a learning curve, so be it. But I still will be the low life out there waving an Arrow 2 antenna because it is fun, gets the job done, and still gi ves me a thrill. And all my neighbors think I should have a tin foil hat as I stand in my yard with my antenna in the air.? Brad KC9UQR
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Michael,
That space frame is back in storage and was discussed recently on this blog. Long story short even at bargain basement prices it was a multi-million dollar project. Look for the post on this BB for more details.
Oh yes, almost forgot, for most satellites the cost occurs up front so the "I'll wait to see if it is up there before I join/contribute" approach tends to be self-defeating. Just a thought.
John K4SQC
On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 7:48 PM Michael via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
What did I say about "pie in the sky" and not being gullible? I'll believe it when I see it. Some years back when I was still a member the mission statement had some bold proclamation about " daily coverage from geostationary satellites" How'd that work out for us? AMSAT DE has a beautiful and capable sat languishing in storage somewhere too don't they? That was once a lofty goal. The best laid plans and all...
Y'all have fun,
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
On 8/2/2019 12:21 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
Golf includes a 5/10 GHz SDR transponder. Does that qualify?
https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-...
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Michael via
AMSAT-BB
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2019 11:58 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 296 (Waving an
antenna)
You miss the point. Of course there is room for all types and not once
did I suggest that anyone using a handheld antenna is some sort of "low life". I'm just saying that IMO the easysat mentality has been run in the ground as a selling point for this branch of the hobby. AMSAT needs to break out of that mold and do something new! I'm begging! But, it falls on deaf ears. BTW, that doesn't mean pie in the sky stuff that everyone knows has no chance to come to fruition. I'm not that gullible. I'll crawl back in my hole now, lurk on the reflector and hope for better days when we are pushing the envelope again rather than becoming an also ran. I guess my dues money and paltry donations don't make a difference to the organization. None the less, I will continue to withhold them till I see some change, although I won't be holding my breath! Again, just one man's opinion but if we just continue to maintain the status quo as it stands now, I see a dim future for this organization. Sigh...
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:31:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Brad Smith corlissbs@aol.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Waving An Antenna Message-ID: 1624430397.216251.1564684267582@mail.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
<I don't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with easy. I just think, as a selling point, it's run it's course is all. How many times are you going to watch a guy at a hamfest with an HT and a handheld? antenna exchange grid squares? I would think sooner or later people just walk on by.? "Seen it already, where's the new rigs?" > There is room in this hobby for all types of radio/satellite contact. I have
recently introduced two other hams to satellites by "waving an antenna." They both bought Arrow 2 antennas and now are having great fun with the birds. If I had a rotor system on a tripod, these people would have passed it up as too complicated. Our ham club is going to build our own stressed moxon antennas so everyone can work the birds. Depending if one is trying to get people into the satellite hobby or dazzle them with technology, one has to tailor the display to the crowd. Yes, I belong to the KISS club. (Keep It Simple Stupid) But on the other hand, I do work the SSB birds, receive SSTV images from the ISS and am learning to send packets. I welcome the new ideas. If I have to buy a new radio, so be it. If I have to pay for some air time, so be it. If I have a learning curve, so be it. But I still will be the low life out there waving an Arrow 2 antenna because it is fun, gets the job done, and still gi
ves me a thrill. And all my neighbors think I should have a tin foil hat as I stand in my yard with my antenna in the air.? Brad KC9UQR
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I supported a long time until I felt that AMSAT wasn't listening to their rank and file members anymore. I've seen or heard nothing so far these last few days to change that impression. And again, I've heard these pie in the sky promises before. Fool me once... When I see something tangible, FRESH, and real again I'll but my money where my mouth is. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in my sentiments. "If you build it, they will come..." Wearing out the cliches but maybe some food for thought for AMSAT management. Unfortunately I don't think they are listening anymore than when I and many others became disgruntled with the direction of the organization.
73
On 8/2/2019 9:03 PM, John Kludt wrote:
Michael,
That space frame is back in storage and was discussed recently on this blog. Long story short even at bargain basement prices it was a multi-million dollar project. Look for the post on this BB for more details.
Oh yes, almost forgot, for most satellites the cost occurs up front so the "I'll wait to see if it is up there before I join/contribute" approach tends to be self-defeating. Just a thought.
John K4SQC
On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 7:48 PM Michael via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
What did I say about "pie in the sky" and not being gullible? I'll believe it when I see it. Some years back when I was still a member the mission statement had some bold proclamation about " daily coverage from geostationary satellites" How'd that work out for us? AMSAT DE has a beautiful and capable sat languishing in storage somewhere too don't they? That was once a lofty goal. The best laid plans and all... Y'all have fun, 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 8/2/2019 12:21 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote: > Golf includes a 5/10 GHz SDR transponder. Does that qualify? > > https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-amsat-golf-program/ > > 73, Drew KO4MA > > -----Original Message----- > From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org>> On Behalf Of Michael via AMSAT-BB > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2019 11:58 AM > To: amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 296 (Waving an antenna) > > You miss the point. Of course there is room for all types and not once did I suggest that anyone using a handheld antenna is some sort of "low life". I'm just saying that IMO the easysat mentality has been run in the ground as a selling point for this branch of the hobby. AMSAT needs to break out of that mold and do something new! I'm begging! But, it falls on deaf ears. BTW, that doesn't mean pie in the sky stuff that everyone knows has no chance to come to fruition. I'm not that gullible. I'll crawl back in my hole now, lurk on the reflector and hope for better days when we are pushing the envelope again rather than becoming an also ran. I guess my dues money and paltry donations don't make a difference to the organization. None the less, I will continue to withhold them till I see some change, although I won't be holding my breath! Again, just one man's opinion but if we just continue to maintain the status quo as it stands now, I see a dim future for this organization. Sigh... > > 73, > > Michael, W4HIJ > > >> Message: 4 >> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:31:07 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Brad Smith <corlissbs@aol.com <mailto:corlissbs@aol.com>> >> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Waving An Antenna >> Message-ID: <1624430397.216251.1564684267582@mail.yahoo.com <mailto:1624430397.216251.1564684267582@mail.yahoo.com>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> <I don't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with easy. I just >> think, as a selling point, it's run it's course is all. How many times >> are you going to watch a guy at a hamfest with an HT and a handheld? >> antenna exchange grid squares? I would think sooner or later people >> just walk on by.? "Seen it already, where's the new rigs?" > There is >> room in this hobby for all types of radio/satellite contact. I have recently introduced two other hams to satellites by "waving an antenna." They both bought Arrow 2 antennas and now are having great fun with the birds. If I had a rotor system on a tripod, these people would have passed it up as too complicated. Our ham club is going to build our own stressed moxon antennas so everyone can work the birds. Depending if one is trying to get people into the satellite hobby or dazzle them with technology, one has to tailor the display to the crowd. Yes, I belong to the KISS club. (Keep It Simple Stupid) But on the other hand, I do work the SSB birds, receive SSTV images from the ISS and am learning to send packets. I welcome the new ideas. If I have to buy a new radio, so be it. If I have to pay for some air time, so be it. If I have a learning curve, so be it. But I still will be the low life out there waving an Arrow 2 antenna because it is fun, gets the job done, and still gi >> ves me a thrill. And all my neighbors think I should have a tin foil >> hat as I stand in my yard with my antenna in the air.? Brad KC9UQR >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Michael's reply (recopied at the bottom) amplified something interesting in my mind.
One receives peer-support by introducing attainable hope and both envisioning and producing something tangible that can be built upon.
In our case, "something tangible" can be as easy as re-reading the news found at https://www.amsat.org/project-status-overview/ ... scroll to the bottom where Phase 3E is mentioned.
To build on "something tangible", someone at AMSAT could post the project plan of the steps needed to get that thing in the air. Include "got it", "working on it already" and "need it" tags (along with contact information for each item).
Let us help to fill-in the holes. Those with skills, contacts and resources exist beyond those who are presently AMSAT members and those who you will "see at the October conference".
Enthusiastically yours, Ev, W2EV
PS: If we succumb to the "non-disclosure / secrecy" approach, we are doomed. Be brave. Be profound. The same approach that got things stagnant can't be used to get things accomplished.
On Friday, August 2, 2019, 9:42:16 PM EDT, Michael via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I supported a long time until I felt that AMSAT wasn't listening to their rank and file members anymore. I've seen or heard nothing so far these last few days to change that impression. And again, I've heard these pie in the sky promises before. Fool me once... When I see something tangible, FRESH, and real again I'll but my money where my mouth is. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in my sentiments. "If you build it, they will come..." Wearing out the cliches but maybe some food for thought for AMSAT management. Unfortunately I don't think they are listening anymore than when I and many others became disgruntled with the direction of the organization.
73
Ev,
Please read the post on the subject of Phase 3E on this BB. The issue was money. To insure a timely integration with the primary load - we would have been a ride share - the primary load was insisting on that a commercial contractor be brought on board at the cost of several million dollars. The issue was not skills or parts or design, then issue was plain and simple - more money than we could reasonably expect to raise.
Just as an FYI AMSAT for a number of reasons has to comply with Nondisclosure Agreements (NDA's) from the various agencies and commercial launch vendors with whom they work. Trust me, if it okay for us to know in munchkin land we will know it.
As was also pointed out elsewhere we are bucking an industry trend right now. We want to go higher while industry wants to go LEO with clouds, literally thousands of Cubesats. And that makes HEO rideshares hard to find at a cost the amateur radio community it willing and able to pay.
Don Quixote had his cause and it was noble. He also had his best friend Sancho who had the unenviable task of trying to pull Don Quixote back into reality. Remember it is a hobby, assume positive intent on the part of the AMSAT BoD and the other amateur radio operator on this BBS. And let's not let the perfect become the enemy of the good enough.
73,
Johnny
On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 7:44 AM Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Michael's reply (recopied at the bottom) amplified something interesting in my mind.
One receives peer-support by introducing attainable hope and both envisioning and producing something tangible that can be built upon.
In our case, "something tangible" can be as easy as re-reading the news found at https://www.amsat.org/project-status-overview/ ... scroll to the bottom where Phase 3E is mentioned.
To build on "something tangible", someone at AMSAT could post the project plan of the steps needed to get that thing in the air. Include "got it", "working on it already" and "need it" tags (along with contact information for each item).
Let us help to fill-in the holes. Those with skills, contacts and resources exist beyond those who are presently AMSAT members and those who you will "see at the October conference".
Enthusiastically yours, Ev, W2EV
PS: If we succumb to the "non-disclosure / secrecy" approach, we are doomed. Be brave. Be profound. The same approach that got things stagnant can't be used to get things accomplished.
On Friday, August 2, 2019, 9:42:16 PM EDT, Michael via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
I supported a long time until I felt that AMSAT wasn't listening to their rank and file members anymore. I've seen or heard nothing so far these last few days to change that impression. And again, I've heard these pie in the sky promises before. Fool me once... When I see something tangible, FRESH, and real again I'll but my money where my mouth is. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in my sentiments. "If you build it, they will come..." Wearing out the cliches but maybe some food for thought for AMSAT management. Unfortunately I don't think they are listening anymore than when I and many others became disgruntled with the direction of the organization.
73
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Sancho...er...John. Lol. Yeah, I get it. My point is that the same pathways to success in years-gone-by aren't the only pathways today. Said differently, just as there are new barriers/challenges today ... there are also new ways to get to space.
For example..."what if" through "Bacon's Law" a non-AMSAT ham knows how to reach Jeff Bezos and convince Blue Origin to supply transport...maybe by trading off something that he personally believes in or values? The point is...tell us that we need to supply transport and a contact person for that work-step, then let "Bacon's Law" kick in.
All I'm asking for is to publish the work breakdown structure and tag each item with "got it", "working on it" and "need it". My other point is, "Are we brave enough to be transparent and allow the resources-of-the-crowd to participate in our success?" If not...then all AMSAT needs is money (and we're back to where we all started).
Cheers,Ev, W2EV
On Saturday, August 3, 2019, 9:06:25 AM EDT, John Kludt johnnykludt@gmail.com wrote:
Ev, Please read the post on the subject of Phase 3E on this BB. The issue was money. To insure a timely integration with the primary load - we would have been a ride share - the primary load was insisting on that a commercial contractor be brought on board at the cost of several million dollars. The issue was not skills or parts or design, then issue was plain and simple - more money than we could reasonably expect to raise. Just as an FYI AMSAT for a number of reasons has to comply with Nondisclosure Agreements (NDA's) from the various agencies and commercial launch vendors with whom they work. Trust me, if it okay for us to know in munchkin land we will know it. As was also pointed out elsewhere we are bucking an industry trend right now. We want to go higher while industry wants to go LEO with clouds, literally thousands of Cubesats. And that makes HEO rideshares hard to find at a cost the amateur radio community it willing and able to pay. Don Quixote had his cause and it was noble. He also had his best friend Sancho who had the unenviable task of trying to pull Don Quixote back into reality. Remember it is a hobby, assume positive intent on the part of the AMSAT BoD and the other amateur radio operator on this BBS. And let's not let the perfect become the enemy of the good enough. 73, Johnny On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 7:44 AM Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Michael's reply (recopied at the bottom) amplified something interesting in my mind.
One receives peer-support by introducing attainable hope and both envisioning and producing something tangible that can be built upon.
In our case, "something tangible" can be as easy as re-reading the news found at https://www.amsat.org/project-status-overview/ ... scroll to the bottom where Phase 3E is mentioned.
To build on "something tangible", someone at AMSAT could post the project plan of the steps needed to get that thing in the air. Include "got it", "working on it already" and "need it" tags (along with contact information for each item).
Let us help to fill-in the holes. Those with skills, contacts and resources exist beyond those who are presently AMSAT members and those who you will "see at the October conference".
Enthusiastically yours, Ev, W2EV
PS: If we succumb to the "non-disclosure / secrecy" approach, we are doomed. Be brave. Be profound. The same approach that got things stagnant can't be used to get things accomplished.
On Friday, August 2, 2019, 9:42:16 PM EDT, Michael via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
I supported a long time until I felt that AMSAT wasn't listening to their rank and file members anymore. I've seen or heard nothing so far these last few days to change that impression. And again, I've heard these pie in the sky promises before. Fool me once... When I see something tangible, FRESH, and real again I'll but my money where my mouth is. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in my sentiments. "If you build it, they will come..." Wearing out the cliches but maybe some food for thought for AMSAT management. Unfortunately I don't think they are listening anymore than when I and many others became disgruntled with the direction of the organization.
73
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Drew,
Any more specifics on the Five and Dime transponder on Golf Tee? Frequencies, link budget etc.?
By LEO, I assume 500-800 km orbit? Doppler tracking could be interesting!
I'm sure I have all the necessary equipment here except for possibly tracking depending on the requirements for uplink/downlink budget.
The equipment is so much easier these days. For uplink, possibly an ADALM-PLUTO with appropriate filter/amplifier. For the downlink, a simple GPS locked LNB.
The biggest challenges I see are tracking and most likely the need for LOS. 5/10 GHz doesn't like trees.
Mike
On 8/2/2019 12:21 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Golf includes a 5/10 GHz SDR transponder. Does that qualify?
https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-...
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Michael via AMSAT-BB Sent: Friday, August 02, 2019 11:58 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 296 (Waving an antenna)
You miss the point. Of course there is room for all types and not once did I suggest that anyone using a handheld antenna is some sort of "low life". I'm just saying that IMO the easysat mentality has been run in the ground as a selling point for this branch of the hobby. AMSAT needs to break out of that mold and do something new! I'm begging! But, it falls on deaf ears. BTW, that doesn't mean pie in the sky stuff that everyone knows has no chance to come to fruition. I'm not that gullible. I'll crawl back in my hole now, lurk on the reflector and hope for better days when we are pushing the envelope again rather than becoming an also ran. I guess my dues money and paltry donations don't make a difference to the organization. None the less, I will continue to withhold them till I see some change, although I won't be holding my breath! Again, just one man's opinion but if we just continue to maintain the status quo as it stands now, I see a dim future for this organization. Sigh...
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:31:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Brad Smith corlissbs@aol.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Waving An Antenna Message-ID: 1624430397.216251.1564684267582@mail.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
<I don't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with easy. I just think, as a selling point, it's run it's course is all. How many times are you going to watch a guy at a hamfest with an HT and a handheld? antenna exchange grid squares? I would think sooner or later people just walk on by.? "Seen it already, where's the new rigs?" > There is room in this hobby for all types of radio/satellite contact. I have recently introduced two other hams to satellites by "waving an antenna." They both bought Arrow 2 antennas and now are having great fun with the birds. If I had a rotor system on a tripod, these people would have passed it up as too complicated. Our ham club is going to build our own stressed moxon antennas so everyone can work the birds. Depending if one is trying to get people into the satellite hobby or dazzle them with technology, one has to tailor the display to the crowd. Yes, I belong to the KISS club. (Keep It Simple Stupid) But on the other hand, I do work the SSB birds, receive SSTV images from the ISS and am learning to send packets. I welcome the new ideas. If I have to buy a new radio, so be it. If I have to pay for some air time, so be it. If I have a learning curve, so be it. But I still will be the low life out there waving an Arrow 2 antenna because it is fun, gets the job done, and still g
i
ves me a thrill. And all my neighbors think I should have a tin foil hat as I stand in my yard with my antenna in the air.? Brad KC9UQR
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 8/3/2019 05:49, Mike Seguin via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Any more specifics on the Five and Dime transponder on Golf Tee? Frequencies, link budget etc.?
Hi Mike,
There are no intentions to have a Five and Dime transponder on GOLF-TEE. GOLF-TEE will have an X band data (telemetry) downlink and may have an X band voice downlink with the same traffic as the U/v transponder. GOLF-1 would be the first to carry a 5&10 transponder. At 1000+ km, coverage and Doppler shift would be a bit better than the lower orbit of GOLF-TEE. If we could get there... see my previous -bb email reply about "top barriers".
Without either one being manifested on a launch right now, final frequencies and user link budget for use of the transponder have not yet been determined.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
IMHO, there is no need to get OCD over this issue. The SATs are spinning/turning constantly and the polarization is changing constantly. And, whatever the polarization is at YOUR location is no assurance that it is the same at any other location. How strong the signal is, therefore, is not how strong it is at some other location. Orient your antenna as well as you can to hear yourself as best you can. But, don't drive yourself crazy since things usually don't change all that fast. I have been using my Arrow on a tripod for quite a few years with good success. I adjust the AZ/EL/Polarization every few minutes as needed and use the rest of the time on a pass to tune the radio, key the mic, sip coffee, etc. Most of the time, aiming & turning is not as critical as it may seem. Relax & Enjoy!!
GL/73, Bob K8BL (AMSAT #6593 since 1979)
On Friday, August 2, 2019, 11:59:46 AM EDT, Michael via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
You miss the point. Of course there is room for all types and not once did I suggest that anyone using a handheld antenna is some sort of "low life". I'm just saying that IMO the easysat mentality has been run in the ground as a selling point for this branch of the hobby. AMSAT needs to break out of that mold and do something new! I'm begging! But, it falls on deaf ears. BTW, that doesn't mean pie in the sky stuff that everyone knows has no chance to come to fruition. I'm not that gullible. I'll crawl back in my hole now, lurk on the reflector and hope for better days when we are pushing the envelope again rather than becoming an also ran. I guess my dues money and paltry donations don't make a difference to the organization. None the less, I will continue to withhold them till I see some change, although I won't be holding my breath! Again, just one man's opinion but if we just continue to maintain the status quo as it stands now, I see a dim future for this organization. Sigh...
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:31:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Brad Smith corlissbs@aol.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Waving An Antenna Message-ID: 1624430397.216251.1564684267582@mail.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
<I don't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with easy. I just think, as a selling point, it's run it's course is all. How many times are you going to watch a guy at a hamfest with an HT and a handheld? antenna exchange grid squares? I would think sooner or later people just walk on by.? "Seen it already, where's the new rigs?" > There is room in this hobby for all types of radio/satellite contact. I have recently introduced two other hams to satellites by "waving an antenna." They both bought Arrow 2 antennas and now are having great fun with the birds. If I had a rotor system on a tripod, these people would have passed it up as too complicated. Our ham club is going to build our own stressed moxon antennas so everyone can work the birds. Depending if one is trying to get people into the satellite hobby or dazzle them with technology, one has to tailor the display to the crowd. Yes, I belong to the KISS club. (Keep It Simple Stupid) But on the other hand, I do work the SSB birds, receive SSTV images from the ISS and am learning to send packets. I welcome the new ideas. If I have to buy a new radio, so be it. If I have to pay for some air time, so be it. If I have a learning curve, so be it. But I still will be the low life out there waving an Arrow 2 antenna because it is fun, gets the job done, and still gi ves me a thrill. And all my neighbors think I should have a tin foil hat as I stand in my yard with my antenna in the air.? Brad KC9UQR
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (8)
-
Andrew Glasbrenner -
Bob Liddy (K8BL) -
Ev Tupis -
Jerry Buxton -
John Kludt -
Michael -
Mike Seguin -
Zach Metzinger