Hi Dan,
OSCAR-10 (P3-B) used the same 400N engine as OSCAR-13 (P3-C) and OSCAR-40 (P3-D). For P3-E we have a 200N motor from EADS Astrium, the same one which is used on the European ATV...
I was AMSAT P3-A (planned to be OSCAR-9) which used a solid propellant apogee kick-motor. It's under the water near the cost of french Guiana.. RIP
You can find an very good article here: http://www.ka9q.net/AMSAT-Tech-Journal-2.pdf See page 8..15
Rest assured, the PFA and propulsion system was qualified according to highest commercial standards by commercial companies. Thus in no way there would be any risk to the launcher or other payloads. This also includes several levels of safety borders in the hardware design and in the software. The launch agencies have there own specialized personal to review all the details... Without that, nobody would have launched any of the P3 satellites !!! What happened to AO-40 later on after orbit injection and after activating the systems is a completely different matter and did not present any risk to the launcher at any time!
Michael R. Lengruesser, DD5ER
AMSAT-DL e.V. -- International Satellites for Communication, Science and Education -- [email protected] http://www.amsat-dl.org
In einer eMail vom 22.09.2013 21:07:08 Westeuropäische Sommerzeit schreibt [email protected]:
The apogee motors for OSCAR-10,and OSCAR-13 were solid propellant 400 Newton trust motors donated to AMSAT-DL by the Messerschmitt
Aerospace
Company in Germany.
Only Phase 3A had a solid fuel motor. AO-10 and AO-13 had liquid fuel bi-propellent motors the same as AO-40. No matter how well designed they are, they still have the potential to blow up the entire launch stack if something goes wrong. Since Dick Daniels is no longer with us, the knowledge has been lost and we will not be launching any more of these in the future.
Dan Schultz N8FGV
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I recently obtained a copy of the 1990 edition of Martin Davidoff's Satellite Experimenters' Handbook and as I was browsing through the book, I came across a passage on page 4-9 about the difficulties with UO-11, that's very relevant to the ongoing debate about the lack of Phase 3 satellites:
"If there's a message here, it's that taking part in the amateur satellite program is not for the faint-hearted. Setbacks and barriers will always be part of the picture. And, the most rewarding successes will probably come from employing ingenuity and tenacity to overcome the 'impossible' hurdles."
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Washington, DC (FM18lv)
On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 7:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Hi Dan,
OSCAR-10 (P3-B) used the same 400N engine as OSCAR-13 (P3-C) and OSCAR-40 (P3-D). For P3-E we have a 200N motor from EADS Astrium, the same one which is used on the European ATV...
I was AMSAT P3-A (planned to be OSCAR-9) which used a solid propellant apogee kick-motor. It's under the water near the cost of french Guiana.. RIP
You can find an very good article here: http://www.ka9q.net/AMSAT-Tech-Journal-2.pdf See page 8..15
Rest assured, the PFA and propulsion system was qualified according to highest commercial standards by commercial companies. Thus in no way there would be any risk to the launcher or other payloads. This also includes several levels of safety borders in the hardware design and in the software. The launch agencies have there own specialized personal to review all the details... Without that, nobody would have launched any of the P3 satellites !!! What happened to AO-40 later on after orbit injection and after activating the systems is a completely different matter and did not present any risk to the launcher at any time!
Michael R. Lengruesser, DD5ER
AMSAT-DL e.V. -- International Satellites for Communication, Science and Education -- [email protected] http://www.amsat-dl.org
In einer eMail vom 22.09.2013 21:07:08 Westeuropäische Sommerzeit schreibt [email protected]:
The apogee motors for OSCAR-10,and OSCAR-13 were solid propellant 400 Newton trust motors donated to AMSAT-DL by the Messerschmitt
Aerospace
Company in Germany.
Only Phase 3A had a solid fuel motor. AO-10 and AO-13 had liquid fuel bi-propellent motors the same as AO-40. No matter how well designed they are, they still have the potential to blow up the entire launch stack if something goes wrong. Since Dick Daniels is no longer with us, the knowledge has been lost and we will not be launching any more of these in the future.
Dan Schultz N8FGV
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
From one of the great minds of our history. Marty showed us how good the
kinds of writing he did would be for us......
The first photo is one of the first formal meetings where Karl, Jan, Marty Davidoff, Tom Clark and others discuss Phase 3A. These were GLORIOUS years for AMSAT. No one denies this and no amount of back biting or rehash of old incidents will fix it. The tools they had were their brains, a pencil, and SOME calculation engine. The tools we have today allow many more to play. The achievements that Karl's GENIUS, Jan's system engineering and the technical input and guidance from the rest gave (including Marty) are unsung and poorly told songs of the indomitable spirit of these free spirited thinkers...
http://n4hy.smugmug.com/AMSAT/Phase-3-A/001-Meetings-01-Technical/2053450_Wk...
And this one even earlier (that's Rich Zwirko, K1HTV in coat and tie). If others can identify people (not including Tom, Marty, Karl, and Jan and Rich) please let me know who they are.
http://n4hy.smugmug.com/AMSAT/Phase-3-A/001-Meetings-01-Technical/2053450_Wk...
I almost could wish I was 15 years older or had a time machine.....
Bob N4HY
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Paul Stoetzer [email protected] wrote:
I recently obtained a copy of the 1990 edition of Martin Davidoff's Satellite Experimenters' Handbook and as I was browsing through the book, I came across a passage on page 4-9 about the difficulties with UO-11, that's very relevant to the ongoing debate about the lack of Phase 3 satellites:
"If there's a message here, it's that taking part in the amateur satellite program is not for the faint-hearted. Setbacks and barriers will always be part of the picture. And, the most rewarding successes will probably come from employing ingenuity and tenacity to overcome the 'impossible' hurdles."
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Washington, DC (FM18lv)
On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 7:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Hi Dan,
OSCAR-10 (P3-B) used the same 400N engine as OSCAR-13 (P3-C) and OSCAR-40 (P3-D). For P3-E we have a 200N motor from EADS Astrium, the same one which is used on the European ATV...
I was AMSAT P3-A (planned to be OSCAR-9) which used a solid propellant apogee kick-motor. It's under the water near the cost of french Guiana.. RIP
You can find an very good article here: http://www.ka9q.net/AMSAT-Tech-Journal-2.pdf See page 8..15
Rest assured, the PFA and propulsion system was qualified according to highest commercial standards by commercial companies. Thus in no way there would be any risk to the launcher or other payloads. This also includes several levels of safety borders in the hardware design and in the software. The launch agencies have there own specialized personal to review all the details... Without that, nobody would have launched any of the P3 satellites !!! What happened to AO-40 later on after orbit injection and after activating the systems is a completely different matter and did not present any risk to the launcher at any time!
Michael R. Lengruesser, DD5ER
AMSAT-DL e.V. -- International Satellites for Communication, Science and Education -- [email protected] http://www.amsat-dl.org
In einer eMail vom 22.09.2013 21:07:08 Westeuropäische Sommerzeit
schreibt
The apogee motors for OSCAR-10,and OSCAR-13 were solid propellant 400 Newton trust motors donated to AMSAT-DL by the Messerschmitt
Aerospace
Company in Germany.
Only Phase 3A had a solid fuel motor. AO-10 and AO-13 had liquid fuel bi-propellent motors the same as AO-40. No matter how well designed they are, they still have the potential to blow up the entire launch stack if something goes wrong. Since Dick Daniels is no longer with us, the knowledge has been lost and we will not be launching any more of these in the future.
Dan Schultz N8FGV
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the
author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Ah yes and how many knew Martin Sweeting was involved in early design meetings for P3A? Sorry for leaving you out Sir Martin!
On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Robert McGwier [email protected]wrote:
From one of the great minds of our history. Marty showed us how good the kinds of writing he did would be for us......
The first photo is one of the first formal meetings where Karl, Jan, Marty Davidoff, Tom Clark and others discuss Phase 3A. These were GLORIOUS years for AMSAT. No one denies this and no amount of back biting or rehash of old incidents will fix it. The tools they had were their brains, a pencil, and SOME calculation engine. The tools we have today allow many more to play. The achievements that Karl's GENIUS, Jan's system engineering and the technical input and guidance from the rest gave (including Marty) are unsung and poorly told songs of the indomitable spirit of these free spirited thinkers...
http://n4hy.smugmug.com/AMSAT/Phase-3-A/001-Meetings-01-Technical/2053450_Wk...
And this one even earlier (that's Rich Zwirko, K1HTV in coat and tie). If others can identify people (not including Tom, Marty, Karl, and Jan and Rich) please let me know who they are.
http://n4hy.smugmug.com/AMSAT/Phase-3-A/001-Meetings-01-Technical/2053450_Wk...
I almost could wish I was 15 years older or had a time machine.....
Bob N4HY
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Paul Stoetzer [email protected] wrote:
I recently obtained a copy of the 1990 edition of Martin Davidoff's Satellite Experimenters' Handbook and as I was browsing through the book, I came across a passage on page 4-9 about the difficulties with UO-11, that's very relevant to the ongoing debate about the lack of Phase 3 satellites:
"If there's a message here, it's that taking part in the amateur satellite program is not for the faint-hearted. Setbacks and barriers will always be part of the picture. And, the most rewarding successes will probably come from employing ingenuity and tenacity to overcome the 'impossible' hurdles."
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Washington, DC (FM18lv)
On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 7:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Hi Dan,
OSCAR-10 (P3-B) used the same 400N engine as OSCAR-13 (P3-C) and OSCAR-40 (P3-D). For P3-E we have a 200N motor from EADS Astrium, the same one which is used on the European ATV...
I was AMSAT P3-A (planned to be OSCAR-9) which used a solid propellant apogee kick-motor. It's under the water near the cost of french Guiana.. RIP
You can find an very good article here: http://www.ka9q.net/AMSAT-Tech-Journal-2.pdf See page 8..15
Rest assured, the PFA and propulsion system was qualified according to highest commercial standards by commercial companies. Thus in no way there would be any risk to the launcher or other payloads. This also includes several levels of safety borders in the hardware design and in the software. The launch agencies have there own specialized personal to review all the details... Without that, nobody would have
launched
any of the P3 satellites !!! What happened to AO-40 later on after orbit injection and after activating the systems is a completely different matter and did not present any risk to the launcher at any time!
Michael R. Lengruesser, DD5ER
AMSAT-DL e.V. -- International Satellites for Communication, Science and Education -- [email protected] http://www.amsat-dl.org
In einer eMail vom 22.09.2013 21:07:08 Westeuropäische Sommerzeit
schreibt
The apogee motors for OSCAR-10,and OSCAR-13 were solid propellant 400 Newton trust motors donated to AMSAT-DL by the Messerschmitt
Aerospace
Company in Germany.
Only Phase 3A had a solid fuel motor. AO-10 and AO-13 had liquid fuel bi-propellent motors the same as AO-40. No matter how well designed
they
are, they still have the potential to blow up the entire launch stack if something goes wrong. Since Dick Daniels is no longer with us, the knowledge has been lost and we will not be launching any more of these in the future.
Dan Schultz N8FGV
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the
author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the
author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Bob McGwier Owner and Technical Director, Allied Communication, LLC Professor Virginia Tech Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY Faculty Advisor Virginia Tech Amateur Radio Assn. (K4KDJ)
Those must have been exciting times!
73, Jim KQ6EA
On 09/29/2013 03:27 PM, Robert McGwier wrote:
Ah yes and how many knew Martin Sweeting was involved in early design meetings for P3A? Sorry for leaving you out Sir Martin!
On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Robert McGwier [email protected]wrote:
From one of the great minds of our history. Marty showed us how good the kinds of writing he did would be for us......
The first photo is one of the first formal meetings where Karl, Jan, Marty Davidoff, Tom Clark and others discuss Phase 3A. These were GLORIOUS years for AMSAT. No one denies this and no amount of back biting or rehash of old incidents will fix it. The tools they had were their brains, a pencil, and SOME calculation engine. The tools we have today allow many more to play. The achievements that Karl's GENIUS, Jan's system engineering and the technical input and guidance from the rest gave (including Marty) are unsung and poorly told songs of the indomitable spirit of these free spirited thinkers...
http://n4hy.smugmug.com/AMSAT/Phase-3-A/001-Meetings-01-Technical/2053450_Wk...
And this one even earlier (that's Rich Zwirko, K1HTV in coat and tie). If others can identify people (not including Tom, Marty, Karl, and Jan and Rich) please let me know who they are.
http://n4hy.smugmug.com/AMSAT/Phase-3-A/001-Meetings-01-Technical/2053450_Wk...
I almost could wish I was 15 years older or had a time machine.....
Bob N4HY
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Paul Stoetzer [email protected] wrote:
I recently obtained a copy of the 1990 edition of Martin Davidoff's Satellite Experimenters' Handbook and as I was browsing through the book, I came across a passage on page 4-9 about the difficulties with UO-11, that's very relevant to the ongoing debate about the lack of Phase 3 satellites:
"If there's a message here, it's that taking part in the amateur satellite program is not for the faint-hearted. Setbacks and barriers will always be part of the picture. And, the most rewarding successes will probably come from employing ingenuity and tenacity to overcome the 'impossible' hurdles."
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Washington, DC (FM18lv)
On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 7:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Hi Dan,
OSCAR-10 (P3-B) used the same 400N engine as OSCAR-13 (P3-C) and OSCAR-40 (P3-D). For P3-E we have a 200N motor from EADS Astrium, the same one which is used on the European ATV...
I was AMSAT P3-A (planned to be OSCAR-9) which used a solid propellant apogee kick-motor. It's under the water near the cost of french Guiana.. RIP
You can find an very good article here: http://www.ka9q.net/AMSAT-Tech-Journal-2.pdf See page 8..15
Rest assured, the PFA and propulsion system was qualified according to highest commercial standards by commercial companies. Thus in no way there would be any risk to the launcher or other payloads. This also includes several levels of safety borders in the hardware design and in the software. The launch agencies have there own specialized personal to review all the details... Without that, nobody would have
launched
any of the P3 satellites !!! What happened to AO-40 later on after orbit injection and after activating the systems is a completely different matter and did not present any risk to the launcher at any time!
Michael R. Lengruesser, DD5ER
AMSAT-DL e.V. -- International Satellites for Communication, Science and Education -- [email protected] http://www.amsat-dl.org
In einer eMail vom 22.09.2013 21:07:08 Westeuropäische Sommerzeit
schreibt
The apogee motors for OSCAR-10,and OSCAR-13 were solid propellant 400 Newton trust motors donated to AMSAT-DL by the Messerschmitt
Aerospace
Company in Germany.
Only Phase 3A had a solid fuel motor. AO-10 and AO-13 had liquid fuel bi-propellent motors the same as AO-40. No matter how well designed
they
are, they still have the potential to blow up the entire launch stack if something goes wrong. Since Dick Daniels is no longer with us, the knowledge has been lost and we will not be launching any more of these in the future.
Dan Schultz N8FGV
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the
author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the
author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Bob McGwier Owner and Technical Director, Allied Communication, LLC Professor Virginia Tech Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY Faculty Advisor Virginia Tech Amateur Radio Assn. (K4KDJ)
participants (4)
-
Jim Jerzycke -
MLengruesser＠aol.com -
Paul Stoetzer -
Robert McGwier