Re: Amateur Satellites and the emergency on tornadoin Oklahoma and Texas
Domenico,
With all due respect, you base much of your argument on a single sentence on a marketing web page. The "emergency" access ability may have been used as part of the justification for funding or launch vehicle access; it doesn't mean it works for that in any practical situation.
When I was a teenager, I told my dad I would be one more person available to pick him up in an emergency if he gave me access to the car keys. Didn't mean it would work or that I ever did. And he saw my argument for what it was.
I think W9KE's comments are spot on.
Rather than referencing the VU page, I would Google the role of amateur radio in the warning and aftermath of the Joplin tornado for perspective.
Bill W1PA (in New England, but I also live on the path of the now 2nd deadliest tornado -- Worcester 1953)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Acito" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 4:13 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellites and the emergency on tornadoin Oklahoma and Texas
Domenico,
With all due respect, you base much of your argument on a single sentence on a marketing web page.
Hi Bill, W1PA
The following page is not a marketing web page but an official AMSAT-NA web page
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/sat_summary/hamsat.php
The "emergency" access ability may have been used as part of the justification for funding or launch vehicle access; it doesn't mean it works for that in any practical situation.
If you you mean that the the "emergency" access ability used by AMSAT as part of the justification for funding or launch vehicle access it doesn't mean it works for that in any practical situation it is like to say that AMSAT tells falsehood to NASA and ESA but as far I know AMSAT is not used to talk nonsense.
Bill W1PA (in New England, but I also live on the path of the now 2nd deadliest tornado -- Worcester 1953)
73" de i8CVS Domenico
Sorry Domenico,
the link you provide is on the "old" Amsat-NA website and is a copy of the Indian website:
http://www.amsatindia.org/hamsat.htm
Nothing more, nothing less and Bill's point is very valid. While amateur radio has a great history of emergency services and is one of the true key public services, amateur radio satellite are currently not part of it. That does not mean they cannot be used, but they are just too limited. There is a reason why 99.9% of emergency services within NA using amateur radio are based on ground services trough VHF/UHF and HF and not satellites!
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 5:48 PM, i8cvs [email protected] wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Acito" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 4:13 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellites and the emergency on tornadoin Oklahoma and Texas
Domenico,
With all due respect, you base much of your argument on a single sentence on a marketing web page.
Hi Bill, W1PA
The following page is not a marketing web page but an official AMSAT-NA web page
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/sat_summary/hamsat.php
The "emergency" access ability may have been used as part of the justification for funding or launch vehicle access; it doesn't mean it works for that in any practical situation.
If you you mean that the the "emergency" access ability used by AMSAT as part of the justification for funding or launch vehicle access it doesn't mean it works for that in any practical situation it is like to say that AMSAT tells falsehood to NASA and ESA but as far I know AMSAT is not used to talk nonsense.
Bill W1PA (in New England, but I also live on the path of the now 2nd deadliest tornado -- Worcester 1953)
73" de i8CVS Domenico _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Yep, I was going to raise the same point and link. They list the following "benefits":
- providing Satellite based Amateur Radio Services/meet the long felt need for the Amateur Radio Operators of South Asian region (especially a mode B bird) - bring Satellite Services within the reach of the common man and popularize Space Technology among the masses. - stimulation of technical interest and awareness among the younger generation by providing them with an opportunity to develop their technological projects - providing a low cost readily accessible reliable means of communication during emergencies and calamities like flood, earthquakes, etc.
I never said the last one is a "falsehood". I am suggesting it does not hold anywhere near the same weight as the first three.
I have never been in a tornado. But I would suggest that those hams in the impact zone no longer have access to any working equipment, which means hams in the surrounding areas are coming in to help, and have the choice. If I was going into the impact zone and had the choice of what communications I might bring, it would be - a portable cell site - mobile/HT VHF/UHF - mobile HF ...in that order. A portable satellite station would be a distant fourth.
If you read the summaries in the aftermath of Joplin, amateur radio (VHF/UHF) played a critical role in the minutes leading up to, and the hours after the tornado tore through. Then mobile phone, mobile date, and social media took over when the mobile cell sites came on line.
Back to prepping my FD station,
Bill W1PA
Thanks Bill,
good luck and have a great FD on the sats. If I get my station up, we will talk.
73 Stefan VE4NSA
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Bill Acito [email protected] wrote:
Yep, I was going to raise the same point and link. They list the following "benefits":
- providing Satellite based Amateur Radio Services/meet the long felt
need for the Amateur Radio Operators of South Asian region (especially a mode B bird)
- bring Satellite Services within the reach of the common man and
popularize Space Technology among the masses.
- stimulation of technical interest and awareness among the younger
generation by providing them with an opportunity to develop their technological projects
- providing a low cost readily accessible reliable means of communication
during emergencies and calamities like flood, earthquakes, etc.
I never said the last one is a "falsehood". I am suggesting it does not hold anywhere near the same weight as the first three.
I have never been in a tornado. But I would suggest that those hams in the impact zone no longer have access to any working equipment, which means hams in the surrounding areas are coming in to help, and have the choice. If I was going into the impact zone and had the choice of what communications I might bring, it would be
- a portable cell site
- mobile/HT VHF/UHF
- mobile HF
...in that order. A portable satellite station would be a distant fourth.
If you read the summaries in the aftermath of Joplin, amateur radio (VHF/UHF) played a critical role in the minutes leading up to, and the hours after the tornado tore through. Then mobile phone, mobile date, and social media took over when the mobile cell sites came on line.
Back to prepping my FD station,
Bill W1PA
I have been around tornados, and their aftermath. The devastation can be complete, but the area devastated is very small (a narrow strip). An enormous tornado is a mile wide... All of the infrastructure two miles away is generally completely intact. Once the overload subsides, your cell phone will work just fine in the worst part of the destruction. Land line phones a mile or so away will all work. Handhelds and VHF/UHF mobiles are handy. There generally isn't need for much else.
Hurricanes are a completely different story.
73, Joe
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Acito Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 8:11 PM To: Stefan Wagener; i8cvs Cc: Amsat - BBs Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellites and the emergency on tornadoin Oklahoma and Texas
Yep, I was going to raise the same point and link. They list the following "benefits":
- providing Satellite based Amateur Radio Services/meet the long felt need for the Amateur Radio Operators of South Asian region (especially a mode B bird) - bring Satellite Services within the reach of the common man and popularize Space Technology among the masses. - stimulation of technical interest and awareness among the younger generation by providing them with an opportunity to develop their technological projects - providing a low cost readily accessible reliable means of communication during emergencies and calamities like flood, earthquakes, etc.
I never said the last one is a "falsehood". I am suggesting it does not hold anywhere near the same weight as the first three.
I have never been in a tornado. But I would suggest that those hams in the impact zone no longer have access to any working equipment, which means hams in the surrounding areas are coming in to help, and have the choice. If I was going into the impact zone and had the choice of what communications I might bring, it would be - a portable cell site - mobile/HT VHF/UHF - mobile HF ...in that order. A portable satellite station would be a distant fourth.
If you read the summaries in the aftermath of Joplin, amateur radio (VHF/UHF) played a critical role in the minutes leading up to, and the hours after the tornado tore through. Then mobile phone, mobile date, and social media took over when the mobile cell sites came on line.
Back to prepping my FD station,
Bill W1PA _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
See if this gets on the board
The Repeater/amateur group that I am a part of here in Houston has tagged up with FEMA...we have gotten some money from them, access to various towers through them...and as someone who is interested in amateur radio satellites when the topic comes up there is this almost quiet giggle that most of the people have. If we had an HEO that was available for reasonable times a day well maybe.
During IKE, our repeater was one of the few in Southern Houston/Galveston that stayed up. All our sites have emergency power and the system is pretty robust. We had in place before the hurricane an agreement with FEMA And NWS (and the FCC) where if necessary FEMA/ETC could come on our links and use them as fi they were their own. Their FEMA's repeater is on the same "stick" as ours, but it went down because the antenna mechanical connections failed. So they came over to our 2 and 70 CM machine
I keep a pretty good electronic log of how the machines are used. The 2 meter normally "plays" for an average of about 12 minutes an hour (that includes nighttime hours) and during the 18 or so hours FEMA was up on ours it was playing at about an average of 22 minutes an hour. they even used the phone patch an average of 5 times an hour!
Ike was actually pretty "benign" in terms of infrastructure damage (the cell sites stayed up)...so we never got a solid test of our packet link to FEMA HQ outside of Houston...
But it is hard to see a role for a satellite that flies over for a few minutes and is not "there" most of the day...or even three or four of them.
After the hurricane FEMA cut lose with some more money for our site...they are not keen on amateur satellites but they like TACSAT 4...one of the reasons a group I am part of got an SBIR to play on Tacsat 4 was because of FEMA helping.
We get an HEO (or had AO-10 or 40 or even Arsene) well maybe things change until then not so much Robert WB5MZO
From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected] Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 21:10:45 -0400 CC: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellites and the emergency on tornadoin Oklahoma and Texas
Yep, I was going to raise the same point and link. They list the following "benefits":
- providing Satellite based Amateur Radio Services/meet the long felt need for the Amateur Radio Operators of South Asian region (especially a mode B bird)
- bring Satellite Services within the reach of the common man and popularize Space Technology among the masses.
- stimulation of technical interest and awareness among the younger generation by providing them with an opportunity to develop their technological projects
- providing a low cost readily accessible reliable means of communication during emergencies and calamities like flood, earthquakes, etc.
I never said the last one is a "falsehood". I am suggesting it does not hold anywhere near the same weight as the first three.
I have never been in a tornado. But I would suggest that those hams in the impact zone no longer have access to any working equipment, which means hams in the surrounding areas are coming in to help, and have the choice. If I was going into the impact zone and had the choice of what communications I might bring, it would be
- a portable cell site
- mobile/HT VHF/UHF
- mobile HF
...in that order. A portable satellite station would be a distant fourth.
If you read the summaries in the aftermath of Joplin, amateur radio (VHF/UHF) played a critical role in the minutes leading up to, and the hours after the tornado tore through. Then mobile phone, mobile date, and social media took over when the mobile cell sites came on line.
Back to prepping my FD station,
Bill W1PA _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Stefan, VE4NSA
the link I provide belove is on the actual Amsat-NA website and is point D of the AMSAT purposes.
Read it please.
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/AboutAmsat/documents/incorporation.php
D. Facilitating communications by amateur satellites in times of emergency.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico ----- Original Message ----- From: Stefan Wagener To: i8cvs Cc: Bill Acito ; Amsat - BBs Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellites and the emergency on tornadoin Oklahoma and Texas
Sorry Domenico,
the link you provide is on the "old" Amsat-NA website and is a copy of the Indian website:
http://www.amsatindia.org/hamsat.htm
Nothing more, nothing less and Bill's point is very valid. While amateur radio has a great history of emergency services and is one of the true key public services, amateur radio satellite are currently not part of it. That does not mean they cannot be used, but they are just too limited. There is a reason why 99.9% of emergency services within NA using amateur radio are based on ground services trough VHF/UHF and HF and not satellites!
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 5:48 PM, i8cvs [email protected] wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Acito" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 4:13 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellites and the emergency on tornadoin Oklahoma and Texas
> Domenico, > > With all due respect, you base much of your > argument on a single sentence on a marketing web page.
Hi Bill, W1PA
The following page is not a marketing web page but an official AMSAT-NA web page
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/sat_summary/hamsat.php
> The "emergency" access ability may have been > used as part of the justification for funding > or launch vehicle access; it doesn't mean it works for that > in any practical situation. >
If you you mean that the the "emergency" access ability used by AMSAT as part of the justification for funding or launch
vehicle access it doesn't mean it works for that in any practical
situation it is like to say that AMSAT tells falsehood to NASA and ESA but as far I know AMSAT is not used to talk nonsense.
> > Bill W1PA (in New England, but I also live on the path of > the now 2nd deadliest tornado -- Worcester 1953) >
73" de i8CVS Domenico
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thanks!
However you still seem to be missing the point.
First of all, these are incorporation papers from 1969!
Secondly, no one questions the potential of satellites and their actual use for emergency. We actually have "satellite phones" for emergencies in our facility and use them when we deploy folks around the world. Satellites make great emergency communication systems if and I reiterate IF they are available 24/7 365. Unfortunately none of "our" satellites will ever meet that requirement unless we are in a fixed location on a geostationary orbit.
Thirdly, current amateur satellites are only available for a few minutes sometimes during the day and our provincial/federal emergency coordinators are having a good laugh about that.
Fourthly, please look up ARES and RACES on the Internet. Biggest emergency response groups and networks worldwide involving amateur radio. None of their frequencies include a single satellite for obvious reasons.
Rest my case.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 6:54 PM, i8cvs [email protected] wrote:
** Hi Stefan, VE4NSA
the link I provide belove is on the actual Amsat-NA website and is point D of the AMSAT purposes.
Read it please.
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/AboutAmsat/documents/incorporation.php
D. Facilitating communications by amateur satellites in times of emergency.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- *From:* Stefan Wagener [email protected] *To:* i8cvs [email protected] *Cc:* Bill Acito [email protected] ; Amsat - BBs [email protected] *Sent:* Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:36 AM *Subject:* Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellites and the emergency on tornadoin Oklahoma and Texas
Sorry Domenico,
the link you provide is on the "old" Amsat-NA website and is a copy of the Indian website:
http://www.amsatindia.org/hamsat.htm
Nothing more, nothing less and Bill's point is very valid. While amateur radio has a great history of emergency services and is one of the true key public services, amateur radio satellite are currently not part of it. That does not mean they cannot be used, but they are just too limited. There is a reason why 99.9% of emergency services within NA using amateur radio are based on ground services trough VHF/UHF and HF and not satellites!
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 5:48 PM, i8cvs [email protected] wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Acito" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 4:13 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellites and the emergency on tornadoin Oklahoma and Texas
Domenico,
With all due respect, you base much of your argument on a single sentence on a marketing web page.
Hi Bill, W1PA
The following page is not a marketing web page but an official AMSAT-NA web page
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/sat_summary/hamsat.php
The "emergency" access ability may have been used as part of the justification for funding or launch vehicle access; it doesn't mean it works for that in any practical situation.
If you you mean that the the "emergency" access ability used by AMSAT as part of the justification for funding or launch vehicle access it doesn't mean it works for that in any practical situation it is like to say that AMSAT tells falsehood to NASA and ESA but as far I know AMSAT is not used to talk nonsense.
Bill W1PA (in New England, but I also live on the path of the now 2nd deadliest tornado -- Worcester 1953)
73" de i8CVS Domenico _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
From the recent, very informative emails on the subject of satellites and
emergencies, the following lessons have been reinforced:
1. Satellites can be used in emergencies, can being the operative word.
2. There is some evidence satellites have been used in emergencies in the past, some being the operative word.
3. It is possible someone in an isolated region will utilize satellites in the event HF, VHF, and UHF terrestrial emergency communications fail.
4. Some people whine about the lack of HEO's, given the opportunity. Emergency communications is such a wonderful opportunity.
This seems like excellent subject matter for a journal or symposium paper. Perhaps one of the authorities on the subject should submit their dissertation for a doctorate degree in satellite emergency communications.
I will sleep better tonight! :-)
73 Clayton W5PFG
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 6:54 PM, i8cvs [email protected] wrote:
Hi Stefan, VE4NSA
the link I provide belove is on the actual Amsat-NA website and is point D of the AMSAT purposes.
Read it please.
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/AboutAmsat/documents/incorporation.php
D. Facilitating communications by amateur satellites in times of emergency.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico ----- Original Message ----- From: Stefan Wagener To: i8cvs Cc: Bill Acito ; Amsat - BBs Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellites and the emergency on tornadoin Oklahoma and Texas
Sorry Domenico,
the link you provide is on the "old" Amsat-NA website and is a copy of the Indian website:
http://www.amsatindia.org/hamsat.htm
Nothing more, nothing less and Bill's point is very valid. While amateur radio has a great history of emergency services and is one of the true key public services, amateur radio satellite are currently not part of it. That does not mean they cannot be used, but they are just too limited. There is a reason why 99.9% of emergency services within NA using amateur radio are based on ground services trough VHF/UHF and HF and not satellites!
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 5:48 PM, i8cvs [email protected] wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Acito" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 4:13 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellites and the emergency ontornadoin Oklahoma and Texas
> Domenico, > > With all due respect, you base much of your > argument on a single sentence on a marketing web page. Hi Bill, W1PA The following page is not a marketing web page but an official AMSAT-NA web page http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/sat_summary/hamsat.php > The "emergency" access ability may have been > used as part of the justification for funding > or launch vehicle access; it doesn't mean it works for that > in any practical situation. > If you you mean that the the "emergency" access ability used by AMSAT as part of the justification for funding or launch vehicle access it doesn't mean it works for that in any practical situation it is like to say that AMSAT tells falsehood to NASA and ESA but as far I know AMSAT is not used to talk nonsense. > > Bill W1PA (in New England, but I also live on the path of > the now 2nd deadliest tornado -- Worcester 1953) > 73" de i8CVS Domenico _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of theauthor. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
subject matter for a journal or symposium paper
It's a bit dated now since I wrote it in 2008 for a Symposium paper and it was reprinted in CQ VHF magazine ... I wrote a paper about satellites in EMCOM:
I still have a copy stashed at: http://home.comcast.net/~k9jkm/CQVHF_Eagle_ACP_Emcomm.pdf
This paper assumes a few things like we have an Eagle Phase IV GEO satellite. It is written to tie multiple components of a national level incident command system response up to being able to allow several incidents to communicate with a unified command at a national level. While the intrepid ham with HT and go=pack is key to local emergency response a GEO satellite wasn't what was needed to call in tornado reports within the county.
Now Clayton can really sleep better after reading this! Probably fall asleep reading it, but ahem, I digress ...
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM [email protected]
Nice!
Point well made.
Stefan, Ve4NSA
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 8:43 PM, JoAnne Maenpaa [email protected] wrote:
subject matter for a journal or symposium paper
It's a bit dated now since I wrote it in 2008 for a Symposium paper and it was reprinted in CQ VHF magazine ... I wrote a paper about satellites in EMCOM:
I still have a copy stashed at: http://home.comcast.net/~k9jkm/CQVHF_Eagle_ACP_Emcomm.pdf
This paper assumes a few things like we have an Eagle Phase IV GEO satellite. It is written to tie multiple components of a national level incident command system response up to being able to allow several incidents to communicate with a unified command at a national level. While the intrepid ham with HT and go=pack is key to local emergency response a GEO satellite wasn't what was needed to call in tornado reports within the county.
Now Clayton can really sleep better after reading this! Probably fall asleep reading it, but ahem, I digress ...
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM [email protected]
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
i8CVS Domenico, I found this news article showing satellite remote sensing photos of the affected area: http://nation.time.com/2013/05/23/before-and-after-the-tornado-satellite-sho...
The key issue is that this was taken with a space asset having a sensor (imaging device) of a particular focal length and resolution that would allow such images. Not all small satellites, or cubesats, have that capability - but they can be developed and launched fairly quickly. The bigger question is, can it be done with a GEO platform, as opposed to a vastly more challenging LEO platform, in the time required for "damage" assessment or "search and .." rescue, and "search and .." recover operations, given that not all LEO spacecraft are in the correct orbit when they are required. And even if we assume a spacecraft had the ability to change orbit, which only a select few have, the coordination of that change may be impossible to arrange. ... that is, unless one were dealing with a constellation (e.g., walker) of remote sensing platforms that could be tasked with imaging from various orbital planes ... So the problem is complex, and the answer, as always, unfortunately ... is ... "it depends".
That doesn't mean future missions will don't have a way. My own research will produce affordable microthrusters for small satellites soon, which will allow limited mobility if a program manager so desires, so ask me in a few months. It would be great to hear from managers who have an idea of what thruster performance levels they require (time/duration/delta vee/mode) so we could investigate definition of common requirements, at George Washington University's Micropropulsion Lab. https://www.mpnl.seas.gwu.edu/index.php?option=com_content&view=category...; Questions? Ask me directly.
And Domenico, thank you again for your help in past years in modeling sat comm projects.
73 de N3RDX Samudra Washington, DC
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Nice!
Point well made.
Stefan, Ve4NSA
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 8:43 PM, JoAnne Maenpaa [email protected] wrote:
subject matter for a journal or symposium paper
It's a bit dated now since I wrote it in 2008 for a Symposium paper and it was reprinted in CQ VHF magazine ... I wrote a paper about satellites in EMCOM:
I still have a copy stashed at: http://home.comcast.net/~k9jkm/CQVHF_Eagle_ACP_Emcomm.pdf
This paper assumes a few things like we have an Eagle Phase IV GEO satellite. It is written to tie multiple components of a national level incident command system response up to being able to allow several incidents to communicate with a unified command at a national level. While the intrepid ham with HT and go=pack is key to local emergency response a GEO satellite wasn't what was needed to call in tornado reports within the county.
Now Clayton can really sleep better after reading this! Probably fall asleep reading it, but ahem, I digress ...
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM [email protected]
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (8)
-
Bill Acito -
Clayton Coleman -
Gary "Joe" Mayfield -
i8cvs -
JoAnne Maenpaa -
R Oler -
Samudra Haque -
Stefan Wagener