I'll take it!!!!!

Tony W4TAS

-----Original Message----- From: i8cvs Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 2:44 PM To: John Becker ; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: status

Hi John, W0JAB

At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40

If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" w0jab@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status

Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?

I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.

I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.

John, W0JAB

---

Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

The last satellite AMSAT-NA built and flew was an SDR based linear transponder. Fox-1 and RadFXsat are FM, and the comms capability got us the launches for free. Fox-2 will be a SDR based transponder. At current count AMSAT orgs have four operable transponder satellites, another in orbit awaiting activation, one at the launch site, and one lonely FM satellite built by the Saudis almost a decade ago.

That seems pretty balanced and forward thinking to me. Maybe your research is faulty.

However, as one of the "idiots" routinely doing hamfest demonstrations and volunteering way too much for the org, and a Life Member of AMSAT, your opinion as a non-member means almost nothing to me.

73, Drew KO4MA

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 26, 2014, at 11:48 AM, Michael Mat_62@charter.net wrote:

I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ

...

On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote: Hi John, W0JAB

At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40

If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" w0jab@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status

...

Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?

I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.

I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.

John, W0JAB

---

Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

Drew, I was once a member of AMSAT when I felt it was representing my interest however I don't feel that way anymore so I now choose to spend my hobby dollars somewhere else. That's my perogative. I voted against some of the decisions made by spending my money elsewhere. Of course when you express an attitude like you just did simply because someone has a differing opinion on what the sat hobby should be about then that doesn't exactly " warm" my checkbook towards AMSAT either. You guys can't take any criticism apparently. You're all right and the rest of us are wrong. Must be nice to live in such a black and white world. Michael, W4HIJ On 1/26/2014 12:22 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:

The last satellite AMSAT-NA built and flew was an SDR based linear transponder. Fox-1 and RadFXsat are FM, and the comms capability got us the launches for free. Fox-2 will be a SDR based transponder. At current count AMSAT orgs have four operable transponder satellites, another in orbit awaiting activation, one at the launch site, and one lonely FM satellite built by the Saudis almost a decade ago.

That seems pretty balanced and forward thinking to me. Maybe your research is faulty.

However, as one of the "idiots" routinely doing hamfest demonstrations and volunteering way too much for the org, and a Life Member of AMSAT, your opinion as a non-member means almost nothing to me.

73, Drew KO4MA

Sent from my iPhone

...

On Jan 26, 2014, at 11:48 AM, Michael Mat_62@charter.net wrote:

I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ

...

On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote: Hi John, W0JAB

At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40

If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" w0jab@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status

...

Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?

I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.

I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.

John, W0JAB

---

Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

Clayton, You're certainly entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I wasn't insulting anyone. I expressed an opinion. To me it's idiotic to stand outside in the cold or the summer heat juggling an antenna and an HT and it proves nothing "good" or "great" about satellites. A well equipped sat base station is much much more impressive to me. You won't run me of this mailing list either so don't get your hopes up. All of us would like to see this branch of the hobby flourish and prosper. Just because some of us have a different vision of how that should be accomplished doesn't make us bad people. 73, Michael, W4HIJ

On 1/26/2014 12:37 PM, Clayton Coleman wrote:

Hey Michael,

Insulting the many fellow radio amateurs who enjoy making contacts outdoors with the stroke of one email is quite an accomplishment. Momma must be proud.

It is obvious from your lack of knowledge on presently active and future, planned satellites that you really are just hear to stir up crap and not contribute anything but a whiney email. Unfortunately W0JAB didn't live up to his promise back in September 2013 to leave the BB. Maybe you'll pick up the slack?

73 Clayton W5PFG

On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Michael Mat_62@charter.net wrote:

...

I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote:

...

Hi John, W0JAB

At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40

If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" w0jab@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status

...

Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?

I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.

I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.

John, W0JAB

---

Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

HI Jerry, First of all, thank you for being civil. Nice change from the last two responses to my post. Second of all, I apparently stand corrected on one thing. It was my impression that Fox-2 was also intended to be another FM sat. If I am wrong in that then I apologize for the previous characterization that all AMSAT seemed to want to do is put up "flying repeaters". However, I will not back off my assertion that there should be more to this hobby than portable ops using HT's and handheld yagis. The Funcube bunch showed us not only that linear cubesats are viable but also that fairly inexpensive SDR technology is a great way to go as one option in receiving them. The Funcube and Funcube Pro dongles were also a great fundraising idea as near as I can tell. We should be taking concepts like that one step or even several steps further and developing SDR based ground station solutions just as we are developing SDR based transponders. Why AMSAT is not developing stuff along those lines is a mystery to me. I know AMSAT is volunteers but so is AMSAT UK and they got it done. I wish I had the technical expertise to develop stuff like that but I don't. I can certainly build with the best of them but circuit development is not my strong suite. It just seems all we ever do anymore is show folks how they can operate an " easy sat" with an HT. That's very frustrating to me. I apologize for the " idiot at a hamfest" comment too but really all I was trying to do was to express my frustration with that same old approach which has grown kind of tired and boring to me. 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/26/2014 12:41 PM, n0jy wrote:

Hi Michael,

I have to defend AMSAT-NA a bit here, the perception that the organization is "bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters" is not quite accurate.

Fox-1 which is an "FM repeater" was underway over 3 years ago when AO-51 was failing. The purpose was to put up a quick replacement for AO-51's popular "easy sat" HT/yagi accessibility. In building such a project spares are necessary and hence there will be 4 Fox-1 type cubesats of which two are going to fly so far. They are all the same design with the difference being what experiments are loaded in order to get us that launch. The purpose of the spares is to have a ready replacement should one of the flight units fail at the last minute. We may then have up to four "FM repeaters" launched someday, but it's not because that's all we're pursuing. So it's not like we just keep building more FM satellites, we are just taking opportunities to fly what we have as the launches come up.

And don't overlook the contribution of the experiments to the value of the satellite. While it may be an "FM repeater" they will carry some very interesting experiments providing telemetry and pictures for education and fun.

In the meantime, there are still plans underway for AMSAT-NA to build a linear transponder SDR satellite as Fox-2 (series). That was the original idea until AO-51 started having problems.

In my opinion and from the perspective of a participant in the Fox-1 project people way underestimate what it takes to build a RELIABLE and ROBUST satellite what will last many years, projects being completely done by VOLUNTEERS. There are many people spending all available spare time, pushing the limits of matrimony and family, and essentially on a shoestring budget due to limited finances (i.e. contributions, memberships). Those limitations of available resources mean slow progress.

And the resource limitations also mean that nothing will probably happen on the linear/SDR satellite until Fox-1 is done and launched. Volunteers are not crawling out of the woodwork, and many who have signed on have come and gone or had to regulate their participation due to the need for real life as in jobs, family, and so on.

Opinion is entirely mine, and any misrepresentation of AMSAT-NA plans that I may have stated is not intended.

73, Jerry N0JY

On 1/26/2014 10:48 AM, Michael wrote:

...

I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ

---

On Jan 26, 2014 1:20 PM, "Michael" Mat_62@charter.net wrote: HI Jerry, First of all, thank you for being civil. Nice change from the last two responses to my post.

That's just a classic opening statement after insulting those that do hamfest demonstrations with an HT and handheld antenna. Sounds like you are OK to dish it out, but can't take it when someone responds back with a less than civil attitude to your direct insult. Nice job!!

Dave-KB1PVH

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid RAZR

Michael,

If you will bother to read the rest of the post , you will

see where I apologized for the comment. It was a poor

choice of words but I was trying to express my UTTER

FRUSTRATION with this approach to trying to "sell" the

concept of hamsats.

Thanks for the apology for the "idiot" comment.

You really think the average person

who can whip out their I-phone or Droid and preform what

would have been considered technological marvels a few

short year ago is impressed with your HT and a handheld

antenna working a sat to exchange a cryptic bit of

information such as a callsign and a grid square? It may

have been impressive ten years ago on even five years ago

but it's old hat now.

As for your question about crowds being impressed with what we can do with an HT and Yagi (or some other radio and antenna) via satellite, the answer is still "YES". There is still something to being able to talk across the country via satellite, not using the Internet or telephone network, with a small radio (or radios). At the hamfests where I represent AMSAT, I get larger crowds for the SSB satellite demonstrations than for the FM satellite demonstrations, but crowds show up for both.

I suggest a fresher more technologically savvy approach. I'm truly and sincerely sorry though if I hurt the feelings of outdoor portable sat ops enthusiast or the AMSAT volunteers who do such demos.

We're listening... what do you suggest?

Sophisticated home stations like what you described in an earlier post don't work well for those of us at hamfests or other events, even if we have videos that can show that off. The sophisticated home station may even scare off some, who fear that it would take a lot of time - and more $$$ - to get on the satellites.

One thing I've advocated is to do demonstrations that use more than FM satellites - or, right now, FM satellite (SO-50). For the past few years, I do a lot of SSB satellite demonstrations at the hamfests I attend. Sometimes, this is out of necessity (FM satellites are not passing by during the hamfest, or aren't available for some other reason). Two weeks ago at a hamfest here in Phoenix, all of my demonstrations were done on the SSB satellites (AO-7, FO-29, VO-52), because SO-50 didn't pass by during that morning. I also used my FUNcube dongle and laptop with the FUNcube dashboard software to show off and talk about AO-73 during its two passes at the hamfest.

The portable setup like I use (and is well documented in my videos at http://www.youtube.com/va7ewk if you want to take a look), which you apparently don't like, is compatible with places that have antenna restrictions. I explain that the same gear I use at the hamfest can be the basis for a home station. More, and better, coax is needed for a longer run at home than at the hamfest demo. A rotator of some sort is needed for a directional antenna. Preamps and/or power amplifiers may also be needed. Replacing one FT-817ND with a radio like an FT-857 or IC-7000 may take care of the need for more transmit power. But my two FT-817NDs and Elk log periodic can still be the basis of a home station. When I add in the FUNcube dongle as the receiver instead of one FT-817ND, I'm expanding the capability of my station - whether at home, at a hamfest, or operating somewhere else. This is certainly cheaper than the last fully-SDR satellite- ready transceiver I remember seeing on the market (Flex-5000 with VHF/UHF module).

We all would like an HEO satellite. I fear Phase-3E will continue to ride the shelf at its German laboratory, absent a large infusion of funds to cover the gap between however much $$$ AMSAT-DL has raised and the US$ 10 million or US$ 15 million needed to pay for a launch. Until then, I'm enjoying the different challenges of working the satellites we have, and doing this using different combinations of radios and antennas, working from different locations, and periodically showing this off at hamfests and other events.

73!

Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/

Michael,

Thanks for the quick and calm response.

Well I don't know but it seems like to me that same

handheld antenna mounted on a tripod and using small

DC motors to track the satellite in both the azimuth

and elevation planes ( something like Mark Spencers

latest creation) along with full blown doppler correction

being provided along with it from some type of "black

box" transceiver and/or interface which was assembled

from a reasonably inexpensive kit and is being run by an

iphone , droid or tablet with an app or possibly by a

laptop and the whole shebang being powered from a

reasonable sized cluster of li poly batteries is much

more impressive than a guy with an HT pointing an antenna

in the air with his hand.

That may be the case, but that - like beauty - is in the eye of the beholder.

I was expecting to see a response with something that hadn't already been proposed, but this is something more than just saying that we need to do something different without finishing that thought.

Mark Spencer, a long-time satellite operator, has done a lot for this corner of our hobby. He's also an all- around good guy. :-)

IMO that also would not seem unattainable and monetarily

out of reach to the average joe ham who has somewhat

bothered to keep up with the technology available to him

or her today. I know I would love such a system. You

could also have a demonstration of the simpler hand held

station going and let people make up their own mind which

had more appeal and "cool" factor. My idea isn't so

complex that it overwhelms but is not so simple that it

totally takes away the "wow" factor either.

Agreed. Mark Spencer's idea (using his WRAPS rotator) is cool. When it becomes available, I will probably buy one and incorporate that as part of my hamfest demonstration station - which will also be motivation to finally use SatPC32 to control my FT-817NDs. I may not use the rotator when I go out to unusual locations to put them on the air, but it will be interesting to see those rotators in action. I saw one at the AMSAT Symposium where he gave a presentation about it (a video of that is on my YouTube channel), and I like it.

What others perceive as "cool" depends on what they are looking for. Some like the hi-tech setups, others like the simpler setups, and some like both. I think John K8YSE has written an article about his remote-controlled satellite stations that will appear in an upcoming AMSAT Journal, as an example that might closer approach what you're looking for. John may not be using SDR radios as is your preference, but he now has two complete satellite stations he can operate when sitting in front of the radios, or from anywhere he has Internet access. Then there are hams like me who are pushing the limits with a simpler and very portable station - yet have opportunities to experiment by trying different station components (different antennas, radios, etc.) without breaking the bank.

Living in a rental house in an HOA-controlled area, I can't put up antennas on the house or property. I can stay active using my portable gear and have a fully-functional station for satellite operating, even if it is at the opposite end of the spectrum from what you are interested in. And I'm having fun doing this. Maybe I need to go to a support group... "Hi, my name is Patrick, and I enjoy working satellites and doing demonstrations at hamfests with a simple station." Or am I in one right here? :-)

73!

Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/

Here is my few cents worth:

My perspective is as someone who has always been interested in space, satellites, etc, as well as the down-and-dirty parts of the techno-marvels. I'm also someone who played with a Part15 broadcast band transmitter as a kid, always assumed I would be a ham someday, but somehow never quite got my ticket till a few years ago. And finally I'm volunteering for AMSAT as a flight software developer. (Cool! I'm doing something that will go into orbit!!!!!!)

I think we ALL need to remember (AMSAT leadership, AMSAT members and volunteers, and BB contributors who are none of the above) that we cater to a very diverse crowd of users. But that one particular group is closely tied to both part of AMSAT's mission and to our way of getting a ride to orbit; that group is STEM students and educators. And even that group is diverse since we are talking about Kindergarten through college! But let's talk about the middle-to-high school crowd. They (and their teachers) are less interested in the mechanics of making a ground station work, and more interested in the data they can get: Telemetry, doppler (yes, you CAN certainly see and measure doppler on an FM bird, even though you don't need to correct very much), signal strength vs distance, orbit prediction (even if it is only 'we can hear the satellite when we predicted that we could). So these guys want inexpensive and hands off (unless the hands are part of the experiment and pointing a handheld would be kind of cool for some of them too).

Then we have "young" (i.e. new) hams like me. (Not young in age necessarily :-) My MO for learning something is to start off simple and work on more and more sophisticated. For example, I started listening to sats with an HT/rubber ducky. Then I upgraded to a Kenwood station with a couple of omni antennas, one homebrew. Then I added the Funcube Dongle. I'd love to build a beam with a rotators, but first I want to build another homebrew omni which I will try in my attic. Etc etc.

And finally (and I'm sure I have missed some 'stakeholders') we have the far more sophisticated guy like some of you who want to build more and more complex stuff in order to do more and more complex things. I'll include those who want to have more time to talk (HEO), and who want more channels and more doppler correction (linear) in this group. By the way, this is partly true for the builders too...a software define transmitter would be FUN! I understand! I really do!

Now to the next step: we don't have a satellite if we don't have a ride to orbit. For getting a ride, it seems that Cubesats have by far the most available launch slots these days, so we need to figure out how to build a cubesat. Further, we STILL need to get some sort of grant to cover the launch costs. The way we are doing that is by catering to the educational group, at least in some form. It happens the way we are catering to the first group is probably good for the second group too, at least for a while. We don't want to ignore the third group either, but it's hard (read takes longer, and more $$) to build a single satellite that keeps everyone happy, especially when we are also learning as we go how to write grants, partner with educational institutions, and build a cubesat. So as Jerry said, we decided first to replace Echo/AO51 with another FM bird, in the meantime learning about the technology required for cubesats, writing grants, etc. Again for reasons Jerry said, we have at least two Fox-1 satellites in the pipeline. Admittedly these are not doing much to help group 3, but there a lot more linears up there than there are FMs, so it's a good place to start.

We hope to take advantage of what we have learned for Fox-1 to do Fox-2 (maybe we should call it Golf instead of Fox-2 to avoid confusion) as a software defined radio probably with a linear transponder. Maybe multiple modes...who knows, it has not been defined yet! No one thinks that we should NOT look for more fun, fancier, harder, etc project. We just know that we had to move back on the learning curve in the new cubesat world and *get something up there* to try, experiment with, and most importantly show potential partners and fund sources that we can do it!

If you actually read this long piece, thank you. I only ask that everyone understand that we can't keep everyone happy with a single satellite, and that it takes years for AMSAT to build a satellite. That means that we won't be talking about a new type for a while. Since ARISSat, you have only heard about Fox-1 because that is the current thing that we are working on, and it takes up most of our mindshare. It does not mean that is all that we care about! Please cut us a break before attributing motivations and future plans to us. And by "us" I mean developers, members and (though I am not one of these) AMSAT leadership.

Thanks and 73,

Burns Fisher, W2BFJ AMSAT President's Club Member

On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Michael Mat_62@charter.net wrote:

Patrick asked.....

We're listening... what do you suggest? Sophisticated home stations like what you described in an earlier post don't work well for those of us at hamfests or other events, even if we have videos that can show that off. The sophisticated home station may even scare off some, who fear that it would take a lot of time - and more $$$ - to get on the satellites.

Well I don't know but it seems like to me that same handheld antenna mounted on a tripod and using small DC motors to track the satellite in both the azimuth and elevation planes ( something like Mark Spencers latest creation) along with full blown doppler correction being provided along with it from some type of "black box" transceiver and/or interface which was assembled from a reasonably inexpensive kit and is being run by an iphone , droid or tablet with an app or possibly by a laptop and the whole shebang being powered from a reasonable sized cluster of li poly batteries is much more impressive than a guy with an HT pointing an antenna in the air with his hand. IMO that also would not seem unattainable and monetarily out of reach to the average joe ham who has somewhat bothered to keep up with the technology available to him or her today. I know I would love such a system. You could also have a demonstration of the simpler hand held station going and let people make up their own mind which had more appeal and "cool" factor. My idea isn't so complex that it overwhelms but is not so simple that it totally takes away the "wow" factor either. Unfortunately, I can dream such a system up but don't have the technical savvy to bring it to fruition. I wish I did. I could build it from a kit if the SMD's were kept to 1205 size and larger. I find hand soldering anything smaller a bit difficult. Think of the fundraising abilities of such a " black box system" as well...... Anyway...I got to run and perform some family obligations, you asked the question so I thought I'd do my best to answer it... 73, Michael, W4HIJ

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Michael,   Thanks for labeling me and tons of other Hams as IDIOTS for participating in an aspect of Amateur Radio that WE ENJOY! You have a LOT of apologizing to do!!!   Here's a suggestion for you. Do what you like and let everyone do what they like without being called viles names in front of the entire World.   73,    Bob  K8BL   (AMSAT Member since 1979)

From: Michael Mat_62@charter.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:48 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: status

I wasn't going to touch this  as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things.  I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened.  Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse  and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls  and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing  new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment  like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than  seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote:

Hi John, W0JAB

At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40

If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" w0jab@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status

...

Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?

I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.

I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.

John, W0JAB

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Michael,

I also miss the HEO days, and have no interest in juggling multiple radios and antennas in the dark in the rain, simply to scream my callsign and gridsquare into the pileup and consider it an achievement if I can copy someone else doing the same. I don't suppose we will ever see another HEO hamsat, unless someone with real money gets bitten by the bug. I assure you, if I had a spare 10 megabux laying around, I'd pay for a launch... but I don't and so I can't.

I like to ragchew. Even on HF, I like to talk to people around the world, to find out what type of car they drive, what their dog is called, what is their favourite beer, etc. I've been ridiculed for saying that I want to ragchew rather than simply exchange grids.

Now, some people actually like waving a broomstick beam around, and some people are thrilled to have worked X-hundred gridsquares with people who they know nothing about. More power to them! But for me, these things are not exciting nor fulfilling. I want to sit in the comfort of my shack, and ragchew. And I certainly think I deserve as much consideration as the grid-chaser with the handheld beam.

Fortunately, we seem to be getting more SSB capable equipment going aloft, with more useable bandwidth. So I'm even considering the expenditure of some hard-earned gelt to put a satellite station on the air. As soon as I am comfortable spending the money.

As for hamfest demos, I have no problem with a show of operating with absolute basic gear, like the HTs and handheld beams. It seems to me, however, that a demo of a PRACTICAL minimalist station might also be in order. (I don't consider all that juggling to be practical, other than for proving a point.) A modest multiband radio of some sort, a small, affordable rotator perhaps controlled via bluetooth, from an android phone or tablet (which also does orbit prediction/tracking), and an antenna designed for satellite work, but with less than 22 elements on V and 40 on U. Some of this equipment may still be awaiting development.

And if we are never again going to get a HEO satellite in space with a visible window of several hours, then we need a lot of LEOs instead, so I can switch from bird to bird and continue ragchewing!

I'll probably get slagged off for making some of these remarks, so I may as well get hung for a sheep as for a lamb: I don't know why people refer to certain satellites as amateur satellites when all they do is send telemetry in the ham band(s). As far as I'm concerned, if you can't have a QSO through it, it isn't an amateur satellite. If you don't require a ham license to use it, then it isn't one of ours!

Regards to all,

On 01/26/2014 07:32 PM, Michael wrote:

I think we should be striving for something more than trying to show everyone how "easy" it is to operate sats. Again, if you actually enjoy juggling an antenna , HT and a speaker mic with only two hands then more power to you. I think that's too much like work and would much rather operate from the comfort of my shack but even if I were going to operate out on my back deck, I'd rather do it with a small table and a laptop and a tripod with a small motorized tracking system controlling the antenna.

gordonjcp@gjcp.net has been added to the "delete from server with reading or downloading" file. Dont need a smart ass like that.

On 1/25/2014 2:34 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

Sure, I'll have one up by the end of August for you. That'll be 15 million quid please, cash up front.

Add me too. I don't have time for grumpy, bitter, or entitled.

73, Drew KO4MA AMSAT LM 2274 (or thereabouts)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 25, 2014, at 5:15 PM, Dave Webb KB1PVH kb1pvh@gmail.com wrote:

Geeze John, don't be so sensitive.

I thought you left the BB months ago after getting your panties in a bunch because nobody was launching a HEO for YOU to use. Remember that?? I think that was one of the most ridiculous things I have heard in quite some time. You even said that you would pay the past years membership if someone launched one. Believe it or not, it takes a little longer than a few months to raise +/-10 million dollars.

Why can't you just enjoy what's flying now?

I encourage you to add me to any of your lists.

Dave-KB1PVH

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid RAZR

...

On Jan 25, 2014 4:48 PM, "John Becker" w0jab@big-river.net wrote:

gordonjcp@gjcp.net has been added to the "delete from server with reading or downloading" file. Dont need a smart ass like that.

...

On 1/25/2014 2:34 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

Sure, I'll have one up by the end of August for you. That'll be 15 million quid please, cash up front.

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On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 06:43:47PM -0400, Gus wrote:

Wow!

Note to self: Humor not appreciated

Evidently so. I won't descend to the grandparent poster's level by posting what I think of whiny entitled moaners who - if I recall correctly - flounced a good few months ago because there wasn't a high-orbit sat for him to play on.

I will, however, restate my opinion that we could do a hell of a lot worse than make a *massive* fleet of packet and FM sats, like hundreds of them kind of massive fleet, ready to fling a bag of them up at a moment's notice.