Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
Hi John, W0JAB
At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40
If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I'll take it!!!!!
Tony W4TAS
-----Original Message----- From: i8cvs Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 2:44 PM To: John Becker ; [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: status
Hi John, W0JAB
At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40
If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote:
Hi John, W0JAB
At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40
If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
The last satellite AMSAT-NA built and flew was an SDR based linear transponder. Fox-1 and RadFXsat are FM, and the comms capability got us the launches for free. Fox-2 will be a SDR based transponder. At current count AMSAT orgs have four operable transponder satellites, another in orbit awaiting activation, one at the launch site, and one lonely FM satellite built by the Saudis almost a decade ago.
That seems pretty balanced and forward thinking to me. Maybe your research is faulty.
However, as one of the "idiots" routinely doing hamfest demonstrations and volunteering way too much for the org, and a Life Member of AMSAT, your opinion as a non-member means almost nothing to me.
73, Drew KO4MA
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2014, at 11:48 AM, Michael [email protected] wrote:
I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ
On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote: Hi John, W0JAB
At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40
If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Drew, I was once a member of AMSAT when I felt it was representing my interest however I don't feel that way anymore so I now choose to spend my hobby dollars somewhere else. That's my perogative. I "voted" against some of the decisions made by spending my money elsewhere. Of course when you express an attitude like you just did simply because someone has a differing opinion on what the sat hobby should be about then that doesn't exactly " warm" my checkbook towards AMSAT either. You guys can't apparently can't take any criticism . You're all right and the rest of us are wrong. Must be nice to live in such a black and white world. I mean how dare us insignificant non members have the audacity to doubt the all might AMSAT right? Michael, W4HIJ On 1/26/2014 12:22 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
The last satellite AMSAT-NA built and flew was an SDR based linear transponder. Fox-1 and RadFXsat are FM, and the comms capability got us the launches for free. Fox-2 will be a SDR based transponder. At current count AMSAT orgs have four operable transponder satellites, another in orbit awaiting activation, one at the launch site, and one lonely FM satellite built by the Saudis almost a decade ago.
That seems pretty balanced and forward thinking to me. Maybe your research is faulty.
However, as one of the "idiots" routinely doing hamfest demonstrations and volunteering way too much for the org, and a Life Member of AMSAT, your opinion as a non-member means almost nothing to me.
73, Drew KO4MA
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2014, at 11:48 AM, Michael [email protected] wrote:
I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ
On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote: Hi John, W0JAB
At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40
If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Drew, I was once a member of AMSAT when I felt it was representing my interest however I don't feel that way anymore so I now choose to spend my hobby dollars somewhere else. That's my perogative. I voted against some of the decisions made by spending my money elsewhere. Of course when you express an attitude like you just did simply because someone has a differing opinion on what the sat hobby should be about then that doesn't exactly " warm" my checkbook towards AMSAT either. You guys can't take any criticism apparently. You're all right and the rest of us are wrong. Must be nice to live in such a black and white world. Michael, W4HIJ On 1/26/2014 12:22 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
The last satellite AMSAT-NA built and flew was an SDR based linear transponder. Fox-1 and RadFXsat are FM, and the comms capability got us the launches for free. Fox-2 will be a SDR based transponder. At current count AMSAT orgs have four operable transponder satellites, another in orbit awaiting activation, one at the launch site, and one lonely FM satellite built by the Saudis almost a decade ago.
That seems pretty balanced and forward thinking to me. Maybe your research is faulty.
However, as one of the "idiots" routinely doing hamfest demonstrations and volunteering way too much for the org, and a Life Member of AMSAT, your opinion as a non-member means almost nothing to me.
73, Drew KO4MA
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2014, at 11:48 AM, Michael [email protected] wrote:
I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ
On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote: Hi John, W0JAB
At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40
If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hey Michael,
Insulting the many fellow radio amateurs who enjoy making contacts outdoors with the stroke of one email is quite an accomplishment. Momma must be proud.
It is obvious from your lack of knowledge on presently active and future, planned satellites that you really are just hear to stir up crap and not contribute anything but a whiney email. Unfortunately W0JAB didn't live up to his promise back in September 2013 to leave the BB. Maybe you'll pick up the slack?
73 Clayton W5PFG
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Michael [email protected] wrote:
I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote:
Hi John, W0JAB
At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40
If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Clayton, You're certainly entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I wasn't insulting anyone. I expressed an opinion. To me it's idiotic to stand outside in the cold or the summer heat juggling an antenna and an HT and it proves nothing "good" or "great" about satellites. A well equipped sat base station is much much more impressive to me. You won't run me of this mailing list either so don't get your hopes up. All of us would like to see this branch of the hobby flourish and prosper. Just because some of us have a different vision of how that should be accomplished doesn't make us bad people. 73, Michael, W4HIJ
On 1/26/2014 12:37 PM, Clayton Coleman wrote:
Hey Michael,
Insulting the many fellow radio amateurs who enjoy making contacts outdoors with the stroke of one email is quite an accomplishment. Momma must be proud.
It is obvious from your lack of knowledge on presently active and future, planned satellites that you really are just hear to stir up crap and not contribute anything but a whiney email. Unfortunately W0JAB didn't live up to his promise back in September 2013 to leave the BB. Maybe you'll pick up the slack?
73 Clayton W5PFG
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Michael [email protected] wrote:
I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote:
Hi John, W0JAB
At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40
If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Michael,
I have to defend AMSAT-NA a bit here, the perception that the organization is "bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters" is not quite accurate.
Fox-1 which is an "FM repeater" was underway over 3 years ago when AO-51 was failing. The purpose was to put up a quick replacement for AO-51's popular "easy sat" HT/yagi accessibility. In building such a project spares are necessary and hence there will be 4 Fox-1 type cubesats of which two are going to fly so far. They are all the same design with the difference being what experiments are loaded in order to get us that launch. The purpose of the spares is to have a ready replacement should one of the flight units fail at the last minute. We may then have up to four "FM repeaters" launched someday, but it's not because that's all we're pursuing. So it's not like we just keep building more FM satellites, we are just taking opportunities to fly what we have as the launches come up.
And don't overlook the contribution of the experiments to the value of the satellite. While it may be an "FM repeater" they will carry some very interesting experiments providing telemetry and pictures for education and fun.
In the meantime, there are still plans underway for AMSAT-NA to build a linear transponder SDR satellite as Fox-2 (series). That was the original idea until AO-51 started having problems.
In my opinion and from the perspective of a participant in the Fox-1 project people way underestimate what it takes to build a RELIABLE and ROBUST satellite what will last many years, projects being completely done by VOLUNTEERS. There are many people spending all available spare time, pushing the limits of matrimony and family, and essentially on a shoestring budget due to limited finances (i.e. contributions, memberships). Those limitations of available resources mean slow progress.
And the resource limitations also mean that nothing will probably happen on the linear/SDR satellite until Fox-1 is done and launched. Volunteers are not crawling out of the woodwork, and many who have signed on have come and gone or had to regulate their participation due to the need for real life as in jobs, family, and so on.
Opinion is entirely mine, and any misrepresentation of AMSAT-NA plans that I may have stated is not intended.
73, Jerry N0JY
On 1/26/2014 10:48 AM, Michael wrote:
I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ
HI Jerry, First of all, thank you for being civil. Nice change from the last two responses to my post. Second of all, I apparently stand corrected on one thing. It was my impression that Fox-2 was also intended to be another FM sat. If I am wrong in that then I apologize for the previous characterization that all AMSAT seemed to want to do is put up "flying repeaters". However, I will not back off my assertion that there should be more to this hobby than portable ops using HT's and handheld yagis. The Funcube bunch showed us not only that linear cubesats are viable but also that fairly inexpensive SDR technology is a great way to go as one option in receiving them. The Funcube and Funcube Pro dongles were also a great fundraising idea as near as I can tell. We should be taking concepts like that one step or even several steps further and developing SDR based ground station solutions just as we are developing SDR based transponders. Why AMSAT is not developing stuff along those lines is a mystery to me. I know AMSAT is volunteers but so is AMSAT UK and they got it done. I wish I had the technical expertise to develop stuff like that but I don't. I can certainly build with the best of them but circuit development is not my strong suite. It just seems all we ever do anymore is show folks how they can operate an " easy sat" with an HT. That's very frustrating to me. I apologize for the " idiot at a hamfest" comment too but really all I was trying to do was to express my frustration with that same old approach which has grown kind of tired and boring to me. 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/26/2014 12:41 PM, n0jy wrote:
Hi Michael,
I have to defend AMSAT-NA a bit here, the perception that the organization is "bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters" is not quite accurate.
Fox-1 which is an "FM repeater" was underway over 3 years ago when AO-51 was failing. The purpose was to put up a quick replacement for AO-51's popular "easy sat" HT/yagi accessibility. In building such a project spares are necessary and hence there will be 4 Fox-1 type cubesats of which two are going to fly so far. They are all the same design with the difference being what experiments are loaded in order to get us that launch. The purpose of the spares is to have a ready replacement should one of the flight units fail at the last minute. We may then have up to four "FM repeaters" launched someday, but it's not because that's all we're pursuing. So it's not like we just keep building more FM satellites, we are just taking opportunities to fly what we have as the launches come up.
And don't overlook the contribution of the experiments to the value of the satellite. While it may be an "FM repeater" they will carry some very interesting experiments providing telemetry and pictures for education and fun.
In the meantime, there are still plans underway for AMSAT-NA to build a linear transponder SDR satellite as Fox-2 (series). That was the original idea until AO-51 started having problems.
In my opinion and from the perspective of a participant in the Fox-1 project people way underestimate what it takes to build a RELIABLE and ROBUST satellite what will last many years, projects being completely done by VOLUNTEERS. There are many people spending all available spare time, pushing the limits of matrimony and family, and essentially on a shoestring budget due to limited finances (i.e. contributions, memberships). Those limitations of available resources mean slow progress.
And the resource limitations also mean that nothing will probably happen on the linear/SDR satellite until Fox-1 is done and launched. Volunteers are not crawling out of the woodwork, and many who have signed on have come and gone or had to regulate their participation due to the need for real life as in jobs, family, and so on.
Opinion is entirely mine, and any misrepresentation of AMSAT-NA plans that I may have stated is not intended.
73, Jerry N0JY
On 1/26/2014 10:48 AM, Michael wrote:
I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ
One thing I overlooked is good old ITAR. Hell, I'm even afraid to tell my friends around here what I do for a "living". I'm pretty sure that AO-73 was a collaboration between AMSAT-UK and AMSAT-NL, a luxury that we don't have. Plus, we are limited to U.S. launches and some of them (i.e. Fox-1A) have a LOT of restrictions and paperwork on them, a whole 'nother full job of volunteer work. I spent weeks working on the paperwork for the license (yes, we need a license because it flies from the U.S.) for the camera experiment.
That being said, there are no opportunities to share with other AMSAT organizations on development and if coming up for volunteers to build the satellite is so difficult then that also applies to other opportunities such as ground station solutions. Manpower... Can't even share details about "this is what we would like the satellite to accomplish can you (AMSAT-notNA) help with some ground station design ideas".
As has been pointed out if anyone has any ideas go for it, but realistically it should be something that you can offer a solution for. Throwing out ideas is great, maybe some things have not been thought of, but that's just like saying "and here you go do it". Get a group of people interested in accomplishing it, at least come up with a conops, requirements... even if you can't build it (and believe me, I am waaay past the age of seeing some of them teeny parts much less avoiding scattering them to the wind when my allergies kick up a good sneeze) there is something to work with when someone comes along who can build it. And those people are out there, but you need to get every aspect together, so that you have the people with the plans and the specs and the people who design the circuits and the people who get the parts and the people who put the parts together and the people who test it. It has to progress in steps. Start with those who can do the starting steps, build a team, and over time you can do it!
People say (quoting you for recency) "why AMSAT is not..." but AMSAT is not a being. We are AMSAT. Saying "Why AMSAT is not" means "why I am not" (contributing, building, designing, whatever) "is a mystery to me."
It doesn't have to be an official AMSAT-NA program I don't believe, look at what Mark Spencer WA8SME has done with the ideas based on the Fox satellite.
73 Jerry N0JY
On 1/26/2014 12:16 PM, Michael wrote:
HI Jerry, First of all, thank you for being civil. Nice change from the last two responses to my post. Second of all, I apparently stand corrected on one thing. It was my impression that Fox-2 was also intended to be another FM sat. If I am wrong in that then I apologize for the previous characterization that all AMSAT seemed to want to do is put up "flying repeaters". However, I will not back off my assertion that there should be more to this hobby than portable ops using HT's and handheld yagis. The Funcube bunch showed us not only that linear cubesats are viable but also that fairly inexpensive SDR technology is a great way to go as one option in receiving them. The Funcube and Funcube Pro dongles were also a great fundraising idea as near as I can tell. We should be taking concepts like that one step or even several steps further and developing SDR based ground station solutions just as we are developing SDR based transponders. Why AMSAT is not developing stuff along those lines is a mystery to me. I know AMSAT is volunteers but so is AMSAT UK and they got it done. I wish I had the technical expertise to develop stuff like that but I don't. I can certainly build with the best of them but circuit development is not my strong suite. It just seems all we ever do anymore is show folks how they can operate an " easy sat" with an HT. That's very frustrating to me. I apologize for the " idiot at a hamfest" comment too but really all I was trying to do was to express my frustration with that same old approach which has grown kind of tired and boring to me. 73, Michael, W4HIJ
On Jan 26, 2014 1:20 PM, "Michael" [email protected] wrote: HI Jerry, First of all, thank you for being civil. Nice change from the last two responses to my post.
That's just a classic opening statement after insulting those that do hamfest demonstrations with an HT and handheld antenna. Sounds like you are OK to dish it out, but can't take it when someone responds back with a less than civil attitude to your direct insult. Nice job!!
Dave-KB1PVH
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid RAZR
If you will bother to read the rest of the post , you will see where I apologized for the comment. It was a poor choice of words but I was trying to express my UTTER FRUSTRATION with this approach to trying to "sell" the concept of hamsats. You really think the average person who can whip out their I-phone or Droid and preform what would have been considered technological marvels a few short year ago is impressed with your HT and a handheld antenna working a sat to exchange a cryptic bit of information such as a callsign and a grid square? It may have been impressive ten years ago on even five years ago but it's old hat now. Autopatch on the repeater from your HT or mobile rig used to be impressive too but I think we agree it's an idea whose time is pretty much passed. If people enjoy that type of operation then more power to them. For me personally I was bored with it by the third time I tried it and I think there are better and more interesting ways to enjoy the sat hobby. I suggest a fresher more technologically savvy approach. I'm truly and sincerely sorry though if I hurt the feelings of outdoor portable sat ops enthusiast or the AMSAT volunteers who do such demos. 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/26/2014 1:54 PM, Dave Webb KB1PVH wrote:
On Jan 26, 2014 1:20 PM, "Michael" [email protected] wrote: HI Jerry, First of all, thank you for being civil. Nice change from the last two responses to my post.
That's just a classic opening statement after insulting those that do hamfest demonstrations with an HT and handheld antenna. Sounds like you are OK to dish it out, but can't take it when someone responds back with a less than civil attitude to your direct insult. Nice job!!
Dave-KB1PVH
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid RAZR _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Michael,
If you will bother to read the rest of the post , you will
see where I apologized for the comment. It was a poor
choice of words but I was trying to express my UTTER
FRUSTRATION with this approach to trying to "sell" the
concept of hamsats.
Thanks for the apology for the "idiot" comment.
You really think the average person
who can whip out their I-phone or Droid and preform what
would have been considered technological marvels a few
short year ago is impressed with your HT and a handheld
antenna working a sat to exchange a cryptic bit of
information such as a callsign and a grid square? It may
have been impressive ten years ago on even five years ago
but it's old hat now.
As for your question about crowds being impressed with what we can do with an HT and Yagi (or some other radio and antenna) via satellite, the answer is still "YES". There is still something to being able to talk across the country via satellite, not using the Internet or telephone network, with a small radio (or radios). At the hamfests where I represent AMSAT, I get larger crowds for the SSB satellite demonstrations than for the FM satellite demonstrations, but crowds show up for both.
I suggest a fresher more technologically savvy approach. I'm truly and sincerely sorry though if I hurt the feelings of outdoor portable sat ops enthusiast or the AMSAT volunteers who do such demos.
We're listening... what do you suggest?
Sophisticated home stations like what you described in an earlier post don't work well for those of us at hamfests or other events, even if we have videos that can show that off. The sophisticated home station may even scare off some, who fear that it would take a lot of time - and more $$$ - to get on the satellites.
One thing I've advocated is to do demonstrations that use more than FM satellites - or, right now, FM satellite (SO-50). For the past few years, I do a lot of SSB satellite demonstrations at the hamfests I attend. Sometimes, this is out of necessity (FM satellites are not passing by during the hamfest, or aren't available for some other reason). Two weeks ago at a hamfest here in Phoenix, all of my demonstrations were done on the SSB satellites (AO-7, FO-29, VO-52), because SO-50 didn't pass by during that morning. I also used my FUNcube dongle and laptop with the FUNcube dashboard software to show off and talk about AO-73 during its two passes at the hamfest.
The portable setup like I use (and is well documented in my videos at http://www.youtube.com/va7ewk if you want to take a look), which you apparently don't like, is compatible with places that have antenna restrictions. I explain that the same gear I use at the hamfest can be the basis for a home station. More, and better, coax is needed for a longer run at home than at the hamfest demo. A rotator of some sort is needed for a directional antenna. Preamps and/or power amplifiers may also be needed. Replacing one FT-817ND with a radio like an FT-857 or IC-7000 may take care of the need for more transmit power. But my two FT-817NDs and Elk log periodic can still be the basis of a home station. When I add in the FUNcube dongle as the receiver instead of one FT-817ND, I'm expanding the capability of my station - whether at home, at a hamfest, or operating somewhere else. This is certainly cheaper than the last fully-SDR satellite- ready transceiver I remember seeing on the market (Flex-5000 with VHF/UHF module).
We all would like an HEO satellite. I fear Phase-3E will continue to ride the shelf at its German laboratory, absent a large infusion of funds to cover the gap between however much $$$ AMSAT-DL has raised and the US$ 10 million or US$ 15 million needed to pay for a launch. Until then, I'm enjoying the different challenges of working the satellites we have, and doing this using different combinations of radios and antennas, working from different locations, and periodically showing this off at hamfests and other events.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Patrick asked..... We're listening... what do you suggest? Sophisticated home stations like what you described in an earlier post don't work well for those of us at hamfests or other events, even if we have videos that can show that off. The sophisticated home station may even scare off some, who fear that it would take a lot of time - and more $$$ - to get on the satellites.
Well I don't know but it seems like to me that same handheld antenna mounted on a tripod and using small DC motors to track the satellite in both the azimuth and elevation planes ( something like Mark Spencers latest creation) along with full blown doppler correction being provided along with it from some type of "black box" transceiver and/or interface which was assembled from a reasonably inexpensive kit and is being run by an iphone , droid or tablet with an app or possibly by a laptop and the whole shebang being powered from a reasonable sized cluster of li poly batteries is much more impressive than a guy with an HT pointing an antenna in the air with his hand. IMO that also would not seem unattainable and monetarily out of reach to the average joe ham who has somewhat bothered to keep up with the technology available to him or her today. I know I would love such a system. You could also have a demonstration of the simpler hand held station going and let people make up their own mind which had more appeal and "cool" factor. My idea isn't so complex that it overwhelms but is not so simple that it totally takes away the "wow" factor either. Unfortunately, I can dream such a system up but don't have the technical savvy to bring it to fruition. I wish I did. I could build it from a kit if the SMD's were kept to 1205 size and larger. I find hand soldering anything smaller a bit difficult. Think of the fundraising abilities of such a " black box system" as well...... Anyway...I got to run and perform some family obligations, you asked the question so I thought I'd do my best to answer it... 73, Michael, W4HIJ
Michael,
Thanks for the quick and calm response.
Well I don't know but it seems like to me that same
handheld antenna mounted on a tripod and using small
DC motors to track the satellite in both the azimuth
and elevation planes ( something like Mark Spencers
latest creation) along with full blown doppler correction
being provided along with it from some type of "black
box" transceiver and/or interface which was assembled
from a reasonably inexpensive kit and is being run by an
iphone , droid or tablet with an app or possibly by a
laptop and the whole shebang being powered from a
reasonable sized cluster of li poly batteries is much
more impressive than a guy with an HT pointing an antenna
in the air with his hand.
That may be the case, but that - like beauty - is in the eye of the beholder.
I was expecting to see a response with something that hadn't already been proposed, but this is something more than just saying that we need to do something different without finishing that thought.
Mark Spencer, a long-time satellite operator, has done a lot for this corner of our hobby. He's also an all- around good guy. :-)
IMO that also would not seem unattainable and monetarily
out of reach to the average joe ham who has somewhat
bothered to keep up with the technology available to him
or her today. I know I would love such a system. You
could also have a demonstration of the simpler hand held
station going and let people make up their own mind which
had more appeal and "cool" factor. My idea isn't so
complex that it overwhelms but is not so simple that it
totally takes away the "wow" factor either.
Agreed. Mark Spencer's idea (using his WRAPS rotator) is cool. When it becomes available, I will probably buy one and incorporate that as part of my hamfest demonstration station - which will also be motivation to finally use SatPC32 to control my FT-817NDs. I may not use the rotator when I go out to unusual locations to put them on the air, but it will be interesting to see those rotators in action. I saw one at the AMSAT Symposium where he gave a presentation about it (a video of that is on my YouTube channel), and I like it.
What others perceive as "cool" depends on what they are looking for. Some like the hi-tech setups, others like the simpler setups, and some like both. I think John K8YSE has written an article about his remote-controlled satellite stations that will appear in an upcoming AMSAT Journal, as an example that might closer approach what you're looking for. John may not be using SDR radios as is your preference, but he now has two complete satellite stations he can operate when sitting in front of the radios, or from anywhere he has Internet access. Then there are hams like me who are pushing the limits with a simpler and very portable station - yet have opportunities to experiment by trying different station components (different antennas, radios, etc.) without breaking the bank.
Living in a rental house in an HOA-controlled area, I can't put up antennas on the house or property. I can stay active using my portable gear and have a fully-functional station for satellite operating, even if it is at the opposite end of the spectrum from what you are interested in. And I'm having fun doing this. Maybe I need to go to a support group... "Hi, my name is Patrick, and I enjoy working satellites and doing demonstrations at hamfests with a simple station." Or am I in one right here? :-)
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Probably no one is going to believe me but I actually had an inkling for an idea similar to Mark's rotator system awhile back. On one of my few attempts at portable sat ops, back in the days of AO-51 I remember thinking, "this is too much work" and thinking it would not be that hard to automate the small antenna tracking with DC motors. Since my homebrew SAEBRTrack tracking box uses a BASIC STAMP to control Orion OR-360 TV rotators which run on DC and change direction by switching polarity , this seemed entirely "doable" at the time. Unfortunately I'm more of a dreamer than a doer sometimes and I didn't pursue the idea. My latest attempts at a budget SDR receive solution using and RTL dongle and homebrew filters to combat desense have met the same lack of motivation lately..... 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/26/2014 4:48 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
Michael,
Thanks for the quick and calm response.
Well I don't know but it seems like to me that same handheld antenna mounted on a tripod and using small DC motors to track the satellite in both the azimuth and elevation planes ( something like Mark Spencers latest creation) along with full blown doppler correction being provided along with it from some type of "black box" transceiver and/or interface which was assembled from a reasonably inexpensive kit and is being run by an iphone , droid or tablet with an app or possibly by a laptop and the whole shebang being powered from a reasonable sized cluster of li poly batteries is much
more impressive than a guy with an HT pointing an antenna in the air with his hand.
That may be the case, but that - like beauty - is in the eye of the beholder.
I was expecting to see a response with something that hadn't already been proposed, but this is something more than just saying that we need to do something different without finishing that thought.
Mark Spencer, a long-time satellite operator, has done a lot for this corner of our hobby. He's also an all- around good guy. :-)
IMO that also would not seem unattainable and monetarily out of reach to the average joe ham who has somewhat bothered to keep up with the technology available to him or her today. I know I would love such a system. You could also have a demonstration of the simpler hand held station going and let people make up their own mind which had more appeal and "cool" factor. My idea isn't so complex that it overwhelms but is not so simple that it totally takes away the "wow" factor either.
Agreed. Mark Spencer's idea (using his WRAPS rotator) is cool. When it becomes available, I will probably buy one and incorporate that as part of my hamfest demonstration station - which will also be motivation to finally use SatPC32 to control my FT-817NDs. I may not use the rotator when I go out to unusual locations to put them on the air, but it will be interesting to see those rotators in action. I saw one at the AMSAT Symposium where he gave a presentation about it (a video of that is on my YouTube channel), and I like it.
What others perceive as "cool" depends on what they are looking for. Some like the hi-tech setups, others like the simpler setups, and some like both. I think John K8YSE has written an article about his remote-controlled satellite stations that will appear in an upcoming AMSAT Journal, as an example that might closer approach what you're looking for. John may not be using SDR radios as is your preference, but he now has two complete satellite stations he can operate when sitting in front of the radios, or from anywhere he has Internet access. Then there are hams like me who are pushing the limits with a simpler and very portable station - yet have opportunities to experiment by trying different station components (different antennas, radios, etc.) without breaking the bank.
Living in a rental house in an HOA-controlled area, I can't put up antennas on the house or property. I can stay active using my portable gear and have a fully-functional station for satellite operating, even if it is at the opposite end of the spectrum from what you are interested in. And I'm having fun doing this. Maybe I need to go to a support group... "Hi, my name is Patrick, and I enjoy working satellites and doing demonstrations at hamfests with a simple station." Or am I in one right here? :-)
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ _______________________________________________
Here is my few cents worth:
My perspective is as someone who has always been interested in space, satellites, etc, as well as the down-and-dirty parts of the techno-marvels. I'm also someone who played with a Part15 broadcast band transmitter as a kid, always assumed I would be a ham someday, but somehow never quite got my ticket till a few years ago. And finally I'm volunteering for AMSAT as a flight software developer. (Cool! I'm doing something that will go into orbit!!!!!!)
I think we ALL need to remember (AMSAT leadership, AMSAT members and volunteers, and BB contributors who are none of the above) that we cater to a very diverse crowd of users. But that one particular group is closely tied to both part of AMSAT's mission and to our way of getting a ride to orbit; that group is STEM students and educators. And even that group is diverse since we are talking about Kindergarten through college! But let's talk about the middle-to-high school crowd. They (and their teachers) are less interested in the mechanics of making a ground station work, and more interested in the data they can get: Telemetry, doppler (yes, you CAN certainly see and measure doppler on an FM bird, even though you don't need to correct very much), signal strength vs distance, orbit prediction (even if it is only 'we can hear the satellite when we predicted that we could). So these guys want inexpensive and hands off (unless the hands are part of the experiment and pointing a handheld would be kind of cool for some of them too).
Then we have "young" (i.e. new) hams like me. (Not young in age necessarily :-) My MO for learning something is to start off simple and work on more and more sophisticated. For example, I started listening to sats with an HT/rubber ducky. Then I upgraded to a Kenwood station with a couple of omni antennas, one homebrew. Then I added the Funcube Dongle. I'd love to build a beam with a rotators, but first I want to build another homebrew omni which I will try in my attic. Etc etc.
And finally (and I'm sure I have missed some 'stakeholders') we have the far more sophisticated guy like some of you who want to build more and more complex stuff in order to do more and more complex things. I'll include those who want to have more time to talk (HEO), and who want more channels and more doppler correction (linear) in this group. By the way, this is partly true for the builders too...a software define transmitter would be FUN! I understand! I really do!
Now to the next step: we don't have a satellite if we don't have a ride to orbit. For getting a ride, it seems that Cubesats have by far the most available launch slots these days, so we need to figure out how to build a cubesat. Further, we STILL need to get some sort of grant to cover the launch costs. The way we are doing that is by catering to the educational group, at least in some form. It happens the way we are catering to the first group is probably good for the second group too, at least for a while. We don't want to ignore the third group either, but it's hard (read takes longer, and more $$) to build a single satellite that keeps everyone happy, especially when we are also learning as we go how to write grants, partner with educational institutions, and build a cubesat. So as Jerry said, we decided first to replace Echo/AO51 with another FM bird, in the meantime learning about the technology required for cubesats, writing grants, etc. Again for reasons Jerry said, we have at least two Fox-1 satellites in the pipeline. Admittedly these are not doing much to help group 3, but there a lot more linears up there than there are FMs, so it's a good place to start.
We hope to take advantage of what we have learned for Fox-1 to do Fox-2 (maybe we should call it Golf instead of Fox-2 to avoid confusion) as a software defined radio probably with a linear transponder. Maybe multiple modes...who knows, it has not been defined yet! No one thinks that we should NOT look for more fun, fancier, harder, etc project. We just know that we had to move back on the learning curve in the new cubesat world and *get something up there* to try, experiment with, and most importantly show potential partners and fund sources that we can do it!
If you actually read this long piece, thank you. I only ask that everyone understand that we can't keep everyone happy with a single satellite, and that it takes years for AMSAT to build a satellite. That means that we won't be talking about a new type for a while. Since ARISSat, you have only heard about Fox-1 because that is the current thing that we are working on, and it takes up most of our mindshare. It does not mean that is all that we care about! Please cut us a break before attributing motivations and future plans to us. And by "us" I mean developers, members and (though I am not one of these) AMSAT leadership.
Thanks and 73,
Burns Fisher, W2BFJ AMSAT President's Club Member
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Michael [email protected] wrote:
Patrick asked.....
We're listening... what do you suggest? Sophisticated home stations like what you described in an earlier post don't work well for those of us at hamfests or other events, even if we have videos that can show that off. The sophisticated home station may even scare off some, who fear that it would take a lot of time - and more $$$ - to get on the satellites.
Well I don't know but it seems like to me that same handheld antenna mounted on a tripod and using small DC motors to track the satellite in both the azimuth and elevation planes ( something like Mark Spencers latest creation) along with full blown doppler correction being provided along with it from some type of "black box" transceiver and/or interface which was assembled from a reasonably inexpensive kit and is being run by an iphone , droid or tablet with an app or possibly by a laptop and the whole shebang being powered from a reasonable sized cluster of li poly batteries is much more impressive than a guy with an HT pointing an antenna in the air with his hand. IMO that also would not seem unattainable and monetarily out of reach to the average joe ham who has somewhat bothered to keep up with the technology available to him or her today. I know I would love such a system. You could also have a demonstration of the simpler hand held station going and let people make up their own mind which had more appeal and "cool" factor. My idea isn't so complex that it overwhelms but is not so simple that it totally takes away the "wow" factor either. Unfortunately, I can dream such a system up but don't have the technical savvy to bring it to fruition. I wish I did. I could build it from a kit if the SMD's were kept to 1205 size and larger. I find hand soldering anything smaller a bit difficult. Think of the fundraising abilities of such a " black box system" as well...... Anyway...I got to run and perform some family obligations, you asked the question so I thought I'd do my best to answer it... 73, Michael, W4HIJ
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bored? Let's put up a Broadband Hamnet (HSMM-MESH) node! That would be pretty darned cool.
Lee W5LMM
On 1/26/2014 12:25 PM, Michael wrote:
If you will bother to read the rest of the post , you will see where I apologized for the comment. It was a poor choice of words but I was trying to express my UTTER FRUSTRATION with this approach to trying to "sell" the concept of hamsats. You really think the average person who can whip out their I-phone or Droid and preform what would have been considered technological marvels a few short year ago is impressed with your HT and a handheld antenna working a sat to exchange a cryptic bit of information such as a callsign and a grid square? It may have been impressive ten years ago on even five years ago but it's old hat now. Autopatch on the repeater from your HT or mobile rig used to be impressive too but I think we agree it's an idea whose time is pretty much passed. If people enjoy that type of operation then more power to them. For me personally I was bored with it by the third time I tried it and I think there are better and more interesting ways to enjoy the sat hobby. I suggest a fresher more technologically savvy approach. I'm truly and sincerely sorry though if I hurt the feelings of outdoor portable sat ops enthusiast or the AMSAT volunteers who do such demos. 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/26/2014 1:54 PM, Dave Webb KB1PVH wrote:
On Jan 26, 2014 1:20 PM, "Michael" [email protected] wrote: HI Jerry, First of all, thank you for being civil. Nice change from the last two responses to my post.
That's just a classic opening statement after insulting those that do hamfest demonstrations with an HT and handheld antenna. Sounds like you are OK to dish it out, but can't take it when someone responds back with a less than civil attitude to your direct insult. Nice job!!
Dave-KB1PVH
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Michael, Thanks for labeling me and tons of other Hams as IDIOTS for participating in an aspect of Amateur Radio that WE ENJOY! You have a LOT of apologizing to do!!! Here's a suggestion for you. Do what you like and let everyone do what they like without being called viles names in front of the entire World. 73, Bob K8BL (AMSAT Member since 1979)
From: Michael [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:48 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: status
I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote:
Hi John, W0JAB
At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40
If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
UGHHHHHH!!! It was poor choice of words while trying to express my overwhelming frustration with the seeming "status quo of satellite operation" and it's already been apologized for TWICE!! I suppose none of you have ever chosen words less than wisely when you were frustrated about something. So go ahead and label me as the bad guy because I think we should be striving for something more than trying to show everyone how "easy" it is to operate sats. Again, if you actually enjoy juggling an antenna , HT and a speaker mic with only two hands then more power to you. I think that's too much like work and would much rather operate from the comfort of my shack but even if I were going to operate out on my back deck, I'd rather do it with a small table and a laptop and a tripod with a small motorized tracking system controlling the antenna. And for the record, I came to an understanding about the realities of HEO launches and the lack of them probably long before some of you did and am all for the current movement towards LEO cubesats. I just don't want them all to be flying repeaters and would like to see a little technical savvy and challenge remain in operating them. 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/26/2014 6:03 PM, R.T.Liddy wrote:
Michael, Thanks for labeling me and tons of other Hams as IDIOTS for participating in an aspect of Amateur Radio that WE ENJOY! You have a LOT of apologizing to do!!! Here's a suggestion for you. Do what *you* like and let everyone do what *they* like without being called viles names in front of the entire World. 73, Bob K8BL (AMSAT Member since 1979)
*From:* Michael [email protected] *To:* [email protected] *Sent:* Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:48 AM *Subject:* [amsat-bb] Re: status
I wasn't going to touch this as I've made my opinion about P3-E known before but I can't be silent about some other things. I don't believe it will ever fly because of the economic realities of today's world but hey, stranger things have happened. Cubesats seem to be the wave of the future as they are more affordable to get launched but if you ask me we are still going in the wrong direction with them in a couple of areas. AMSAT seems to be bent and determined to keep building and flying FM repeaters even when ground based FM repeaters are slowly falling into disuse and projects like Funcube AO-73 are showing how viable linear transponder cubesats are. There also seems to be some continued fascination with showing how we can all stand out in the frigid cold or the blazing sun balancing an HT in one hand and a handheld yagi in the other to work the flying repeaters....... YAWN!!! The novelty of that has worn off just as quickly as it did on exchanging nothing but grid squares and calls and calling it a sat QSO. The focus not only needs to be on more linear transponder cubesats and developing new and efficient ways to communicate with them but also on developing affordable ground equipment like complete SDR transceiver systems along the lines of the funcube dongle except maybe abandoning the "dongle" concept and going more with a desktop "black box" approach. A computer driven SDR base station with tracking and doppler correction and digital and CW as well as voice mode communication is infinitely more interesting to me than seeing some idiot balancing an antenna and an HT at a hamfest. Just my opinion.... That and five bucks will get you a fancy Starbucks coffee blend but I had to put it out there! 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 1/25/2014 2:44 PM, i8cvs wrote:
Hi John, W0JAB
At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40
If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> To: <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
Sent via [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Michael,
I also miss the HEO days, and have no interest in juggling multiple radios and antennas in the dark in the rain, simply to scream my callsign and gridsquare into the pileup and consider it an achievement if I can copy someone else doing the same. I don't suppose we will ever see another HEO hamsat, unless someone with real money gets bitten by the bug. I assure you, if I had a spare 10 megabux laying around, I'd pay for a launch... but I don't and so I can't.
I like to ragchew. Even on HF, I like to talk to people around the world, to find out what type of car they drive, what their dog is called, what is their favourite beer, etc. I've been ridiculed for saying that I want to ragchew rather than simply exchange grids.
Now, some people actually like waving a broomstick beam around, and some people are thrilled to have worked X-hundred gridsquares with people who they know nothing about. More power to them! But for me, these things are not exciting nor fulfilling. I want to sit in the comfort of my shack, and ragchew. And I certainly think I deserve as much consideration as the grid-chaser with the handheld beam.
Fortunately, we seem to be getting more SSB capable equipment going aloft, with more useable bandwidth. So I'm even considering the expenditure of some hard-earned gelt to put a satellite station on the air. As soon as I am comfortable spending the money.
As for hamfest demos, I have no problem with a show of operating with absolute basic gear, like the HTs and handheld beams. It seems to me, however, that a demo of a PRACTICAL minimalist station might also be in order. (I don't consider all that juggling to be practical, other than for proving a point.) A modest multiband radio of some sort, a small, affordable rotator perhaps controlled via bluetooth, from an android phone or tablet (which also does orbit prediction/tracking), and an antenna designed for satellite work, but with less than 22 elements on V and 40 on U. Some of this equipment may still be awaiting development.
And if we are never again going to get a HEO satellite in space with a visible window of several hours, then we need a lot of LEOs instead, so I can switch from bird to bird and continue ragchewing!
I'll probably get slagged off for making some of these remarks, so I may as well get hung for a sheep as for a lamb: I don't know why people refer to certain satellites as amateur satellites when all they do is send telemetry in the ham band(s). As far as I'm concerned, if you can't have a QSO through it, it isn't an amateur satellite. If you don't require a ham license to use it, then it isn't one of ours!
Regards to all,
On 01/26/2014 07:32 PM, Michael wrote:
I think we should be striving for something more than trying to show everyone how "easy" it is to operate sats. Again, if you actually enjoy juggling an antenna , HT and a speaker mic with only two hands then more power to you. I think that's too much like work and would much rather operate from the comfort of my shack but even if I were going to operate out on my back deck, I'd rather do it with a small table and a laptop and a tripod with a small motorized tracking system controlling the antenna.
well there is a Falcon heavy demo launch that has almost no payload on it...Robert WB5MZO and likely S2USN
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 26, 2014, at 1:49 AM, "i8cvs" [email protected] wrote:
Hi John, W0JAB
At the moment there is no hope to see again a satellite like AO40
If we are like in the future probably we will see P3E, a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 built by AMSAT-DL
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Becker" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] status
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40? I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
Hi John,
It's fairly safe to assume that if an AO-40 replacement were going up in the next couple of years it would be all over the BB. No news can reasonably be interpreted as nothing happening yet.
The AMSAT-DL P3E satellite is I believe in an advanced state of construction but I think unlikely to be completed unless $10 million turns up to fund a launch.
It's basically a money issue, there's even a Low Earth Orbiter microsatellite KiwiSat completed but on the ground awaiting launch funding. I gather the team have been after $1 million for a couple of years now.
73 Trevor M5AKA
On Saturday, 25 January 2014, 19:07, John Becker [email protected] wrote:
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 01:01:32PM -0600, John Becker wrote:
Whats the status of a replacement for the likes of AO 40?
I know I ask this from time to time but never seem to see anything.
I for one would very much like to see this type the a boat load of small FM only type while there is still a place to park one.
John, W0JAB
Sure, I'll have one up by the end of August for you.
That'll be 15 million quid please, cash up front.
[email protected] has been added to the "delete from server with reading or downloading" file. Dont need a smart ass like that.
On 1/25/2014 2:34 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
Sure, I'll have one up by the end of August for you. That'll be 15 million quid please, cash up front.
Geeze John, don't be so sensitive.
I thought you left the BB months ago after getting your panties in a bunch because nobody was launching a HEO for YOU to use. Remember that?? I think that was one of the most ridiculous things I have heard in quite some time. You even said that you would pay the past years membership if someone launched one. Believe it or not, it takes a little longer than a few months to raise +/-10 million dollars.
Why can't you just enjoy what's flying now?
I encourage you to add me to any of your lists.
Dave-KB1PVH
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid RAZR On Jan 25, 2014 4:48 PM, "John Becker" [email protected] wrote:
[email protected] has been added to the "delete from server with reading or downloading" file. Dont need a smart ass like that.
On 1/25/2014 2:34 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
Sure, I'll have one up by the end of August for you. That'll be 15 million quid please, cash up front.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Add me too. I don't have time for grumpy, bitter, or entitled.
73, Drew KO4MA AMSAT LM 2274 (or thereabouts)
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 25, 2014, at 5:15 PM, Dave Webb KB1PVH [email protected] wrote:
Geeze John, don't be so sensitive.
I thought you left the BB months ago after getting your panties in a bunch because nobody was launching a HEO for YOU to use. Remember that?? I think that was one of the most ridiculous things I have heard in quite some time. You even said that you would pay the past years membership if someone launched one. Believe it or not, it takes a little longer than a few months to raise +/-10 million dollars.
Why can't you just enjoy what's flying now?
I encourage you to add me to any of your lists.
Dave-KB1PVH
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid RAZR
On Jan 25, 2014 4:48 PM, "John Becker" [email protected] wrote:
[email protected] has been added to the "delete from server with reading or downloading" file. Dont need a smart ass like that.
On 1/25/2014 2:34 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
Sure, I'll have one up by the end of August for you. That'll be 15 million quid please, cash up front.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Wow!
Note to self: Humor not appreciated
On 01/25/2014 05:28 PM, John Becker wrote:
[email protected] has been added to the "delete from server with reading or downloading" file. Dont need a smart ass like that.
On 1/25/2014 2:34 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
Sure, I'll have one up by the end of August for you. That'll be 15 million quid please, cash up front.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 06:43:47PM -0400, Gus wrote:
Wow!
Note to self: Humor not appreciated
Evidently so. I won't descend to the grandparent poster's level by posting what I think of whiny entitled moaners who - if I recall correctly - flounced a good few months ago because there wasn't a high-orbit sat for him to play on.
I will, however, restate my opinion that we could do a hell of a lot worse than make a *massive* fleet of packet and FM sats, like hundreds of them kind of massive fleet, ready to fling a bag of them up at a moment's notice.
participants (16)
-
Andrew Glasbrenner -
Burns Fisher -
Clayton Coleman -
Dave Webb KB1PVH -
Gordon JC Pearce -
Gus -
i8cvs -
John Becker -
Lee Maisel -
M5AKA -
Michael -
n0jy -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
R Oler -
R.T.Liddy -
w4tas