A viable FD satellite operation
I may set up a Field Day satellite station for our local club. I haven't done this in a while.... my last experience with a non-FM bird was AO-40.
I'd like to avoid the futility of the FM LEO's on FD, and look to the working passband birds, which I understand are AO-7, FO-29, and VO-52.
I have at my disposal a FT-847, an Arrow satellite antenna (V/U), and if needed, various preamps and poweramps for 2m and 432, as well as antennas with more elements.
I also have a Ten Tec 2510 satellite unit that does not have the "extra crystal board", which I understand makes it a non-starter for the 3 birds I mentioned.
For those of you experienced with the bandpass birds, assuming an outdoor, clear sky access location, what should I bring? (i.e. will the FT-847 stock amp be sufficient? How many elements do I need for uplink? pre-amp for downlink? etc)
I also may only be able to work overnight (in darkness) -- that rules out AO-7, correct?
Bill W1PA
Bill,
You are approaching Field Day the correct way: Concentrate on the analog transponder birds (FO-29, VO-52, AO-7, in that order) and don't even try making a contact through SO-50 (the only FM sat currently working).
The FT-847 and Arrow antenna should work fine. The preamps are not required, but a good idea if you have them.
DO NOT bring or connect a power amplifier. Make sure you know how to decrease the power of the FT-847. Once a satellite is off the horizon (above 15-20 degrees), you can probably make your contacts with 5-10 watts. Using more power than needed causes all kinds of problems for everyone trying to use the satellite.
If you are at all computer literate, I'd recommend that you get SatPC32 or other software package working to tune your radio, automating the Doppler correction.
AO-7 doesn't work when the satellite is in darkness (eclipsed), but note that it is usually illuminated by the sun even when it is nighttime on earth. The biggest challenge with AO-7 is that it alternates between mode A and mode B, and is currently switching somewhat randomly between A and B. The best place to check for its current mode is at http://oscar.dcarr.org .
My last piece of advice is to assemble your station and start practicing *now*. Get things working today and gain a little practice, and you'll have no problem making a half-dozen or more contacts, especially with your AO-40 experience.
However, if you wait until Field Day weekend to try to make things work, you'll be hosed. :-(
Hope to work you on FD. I'll be helping our club as W9LDX.
73, Steve N9IP -- Steve Belter, seb@wintek.com
On 5/21/13 4:09 PM, "Bill W1PA" w1pa@hotmail.com wrote:
I may set up a Field Day satellite station for our local club. I haven't done this in a while.... my last experience with a non-FM bird was AO-40.
I'd like to avoid the futility of the FM LEO's on FD, and look to the working passband birds, which I understand are AO-7, FO-29, and VO-52.
I have at my disposal a FT-847, an Arrow satellite antenna (V/U), and if needed, various preamps and poweramps for 2m and 432, as well as antennas with more elements.
I also have a Ten Tec 2510 satellite unit that does not have the "extra crystal board", which I understand makes it a non-starter for the 3 birds I mentioned.
For those of you experienced with the bandpass birds, assuming an outdoor, clear sky access location, what should I bring? (i.e. will the FT-847 stock amp be sufficient? How many elements do I need for uplink? pre-amp for downlink? etc)
I also may only be able to work overnight (in darkness) -- that rules out AO-7, correct?
Bill W1PA
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
There's also an article in the June QST which answered a lot of my questions about setting up for and operating sats on Field Day.
Philip N4HF
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Bill W1PA w1pa@hotmail.com wrote:
I may set up a Field Day satellite station for our local club. I haven't done this in a while.... my last experience with a non-FM bird was AO-40.
I'd like to avoid the futility of the FM LEO's on FD, and look to the working passband birds, which I understand are AO-7, FO-29, and VO-52.
I have at my disposal a FT-847, an Arrow satellite antenna (V/U), and if needed, various preamps and poweramps for 2m and 432, as well as antennas with more elements.
I also have a Ten Tec 2510 satellite unit that does not have the "extra crystal board", which I understand makes it a non-starter for the 3 birds I mentioned.
For those of you experienced with the bandpass birds, assuming an outdoor, clear sky access location, what should I bring? (i.e. will the FT-847 stock amp be sufficient? How many elements do I need for uplink? pre-amp for downlink? etc)
I also may only be able to work overnight (in darkness) -- that rules out AO-7, correct?
Bill W1PA ______________________________**_________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bbhttp://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Yes, ironically it came in the mail today.
I wish they had just skipped the FM-LEO aspect. They will just be plain ugly on Field Day and not show this aspect of the hobby in a good light.
The last year AO-40 was available for Field Day, I was AMSAT FD #10, working AO-40 only, single op, with no computer assist. I'm out of practice. :-)
Bill
Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 22:06:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] A viable FD satellite operation From: n4hf.philip@gmail.com To: w1pa@hotmail.com CC: amsat-bb@amsat.org
There's also an article in the June QST which answered a lot of my questions about setting up for and operating sats on Field Day.
Philip N4HF
You're definitely approaching it in the right way, Bill!
An FT-847 is an excellent satellite rig, and in combination with a small gain antenna, will be an excellent station.
The 50 Watts the '847 provides is more than enough RF power, even with the Arrow, or similar Elk, antenna.
A preamps are highly recommended, especially with a smaller antenna.
Use a diplexer "in reverse" to help get rid of desense. It's more important than you'd think.
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/articles/Mode-J/
A few other tips to help you.......
If you're going to be running tracking software, like SatPC32, make SURE your PC has the correct time set!
An error of 10~15 seconds may not sound like much, but it can cause you point your antennas wrong, and ruin a pass.
Same with your Lat/Lon. I use a GPS, which also supplies an accurate clock to the laptop, but a lot of people get by with just using grid squares.
Know precisely *WHERE* North, South. East, and West are at your station location.
You'd be surprised how many people don't, and then can't find the sats as they come up over the horizon.
Have a helper to point the antenna, as you'll be busy doing the "Doppler Dance".
Again, if you run SatPC32, the Doppler correction is fed to the rig, and it's one less manual operation to split your limited time amongst.
Keep the TenTec on the shelf, in the collection.
And as somebody else pointed out, get started setting up and practicing NOW!!
If you wait until Field Day weekend, you'll wind up extremely frustrated, with few or no contacts!
I know, as I used to do it that way every year. I think the best I ever got was three contacts one year.
The next year I started two months early, and I made THIRTY FIVE contacts that year, just because:
I didn't forget anything at home, requiring numerous unnecessary trips back and forth (I also bought some Tupperware tubs to keep all the satellite stuff in!)
Everything worked because I had six weekends to practice setting up and operating before Field Day, ensuring all the bugs were worked out
I was a lot more comfortable using the station because I knew it all worked, and the stress level was much lower.
Good luck, get going, and listen for K6AA on Field Day, and KQ6EA the weeks before while I'm practicing!
73, Jim KQ6EA
On 05/21/2013 08:09 PM, Bill W1PA wrote:
I may set up a Field Day satellite station for our local club. I haven't done this in a while.... my last experience with a non-FM bird was AO-40.
I'd like to avoid the futility of the FM LEO's on FD, and look to the working passband birds, which I understand are AO-7, FO-29, and VO-52.
I have at my disposal a FT-847, an Arrow satellite antenna (V/U), and if needed, various preamps and poweramps for 2m and 432, as well as antennas with more elements.
I also have a Ten Tec 2510 satellite unit that does not have the "extra crystal board", which I understand makes it a non-starter for the 3 birds I mentioned.
For those of you experienced with the bandpass birds, assuming an outdoor, clear sky access location, what should I bring? (i.e. will the FT-847 stock amp be sufficient? How many elements do I need for uplink? pre-amp for downlink? etc)
I also may only be able to work overnight (in darkness) -- that rules out AO-7, correct?
Bill W1PA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Jim makes a good point. Know where the points of the compass are.
And, depending on where you are located, that is not as simple as just taking out a compass. It can make a fair amount of difference if you are in the western states of the US and not so much, if any, if you are in some place like Pensacola, Florida.
NOAA has a calculator: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag-web/#declination
73 Rolf NR0T EN34 Amsat-NA #38889
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Jim Jerzycke kq6ea@verizon.net wrote:
You're definitely approaching it in the right way, Bill!
An FT-847 is an excellent satellite rig, and in combination with a small gain antenna, will be an excellent station.
The 50 Watts the '847 provides is more than enough RF power, even with the Arrow, or similar Elk, antenna.
A preamps are highly recommended, especially with a smaller antenna.
Use a diplexer "in reverse" to help get rid of desense. It's more important than you'd think.
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-**new/articles/Mode-J/http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/articles/Mode-J/
A few other tips to help you.......
If you're going to be running tracking software, like SatPC32, make SURE your PC has the correct time set!
An error of 10~15 seconds may not sound like much, but it can cause you point your antennas wrong, and ruin a pass.
Same with your Lat/Lon. I use a GPS, which also supplies an accurate clock to the laptop, but a lot of people get by with just using grid squares.
Know precisely *WHERE* North, South. East, and West are at your station location.
You'd be surprised how many people don't, and then can't find the sats as they come up over the horizon.
Have a helper to point the antenna, as you'll be busy doing the "Doppler Dance".
Again, if you run SatPC32, the Doppler correction is fed to the rig, and it's one less manual operation to split your limited time amongst.
Keep the TenTec on the shelf, in the collection.
And as somebody else pointed out, get started setting up and practicing NOW!!
If you wait until Field Day weekend, you'll wind up extremely frustrated, with few or no contacts!
I know, as I used to do it that way every year. I think the best I ever got was three contacts one year.
The next year I started two months early, and I made THIRTY FIVE contacts that year, just because:
I didn't forget anything at home, requiring numerous unnecessary trips back and forth (I also bought some Tupperware tubs to keep all the satellite stuff in!)
Everything worked because I had six weekends to practice setting up and operating before Field Day, ensuring all the bugs were worked out
I was a lot more comfortable using the station because I knew it all worked, and the stress level was much lower.
Good luck, get going, and listen for K6AA on Field Day, and KQ6EA the weeks before while I'm practicing!
73, Jim KQ6EA
On 05/21/2013 08:09 PM, Bill W1PA wrote:
I may set up a Field Day satellite station for our local club. I haven't done this in a while.... my last experience with a non-FM bird was AO-40.
I'd like to avoid the futility of the FM LEO's on FD, and look to the working passband birds, which I understand are AO-7, FO-29, and VO-52.
I have at my disposal a FT-847, an Arrow satellite antenna (V/U), and if needed, various preamps and poweramps for 2m and 432, as well as antennas with more elements.
I also have a Ten Tec 2510 satellite unit that does not have the "extra crystal board", which I understand makes it a non-starter for the 3 birds I mentioned.
For those of you experienced with the bandpass birds, assuming an outdoor, clear sky access location, what should I bring? (i.e. will the FT-847 stock amp be sufficient? How many elements do I need for uplink? pre-amp for downlink? etc)
I also may only be able to work overnight (in darkness) -- that rules out AO-7, correct?
Bill W1PA ______________________________**_________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bbhttp://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
______________________________**_________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bbhttp://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sorry, I forgot to say it makes a difference because of Magnetic Declination - the difference between magnetic north and true north.
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Rolf Krogstad rolf.krogstad@gmail.comwrote:
Jim makes a good point. Know where the points of the compass are.
And, depending on where you are located, that is not as simple as just taking out a compass. It can make a fair amount of difference if you are in the western states of the US and not so much, if any, if you are in some place like Pensacola, Florida.
NOAA has a calculator: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag-web/#declination
73 Rolf NR0T EN34 Amsat-NA #38889
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Jim Jerzycke kq6ea@verizon.net wrote:
You're definitely approaching it in the right way, Bill!
An FT-847 is an excellent satellite rig, and in combination with a small gain antenna, will be an excellent station.
The 50 Watts the '847 provides is more than enough RF power, even with the Arrow, or similar Elk, antenna.
A preamps are highly recommended, especially with a smaller antenna.
Use a diplexer "in reverse" to help get rid of desense. It's more important than you'd think.
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-**new/articles/Mode-J/http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/articles/Mode-J/
A few other tips to help you.......
If you're going to be running tracking software, like SatPC32, make SURE your PC has the correct time set!
An error of 10~15 seconds may not sound like much, but it can cause you point your antennas wrong, and ruin a pass.
Same with your Lat/Lon. I use a GPS, which also supplies an accurate clock to the laptop, but a lot of people get by with just using grid squares.
Know precisely *WHERE* North, South. East, and West are at your station location.
You'd be surprised how many people don't, and then can't find the sats as they come up over the horizon.
Have a helper to point the antenna, as you'll be busy doing the "Doppler Dance".
Again, if you run SatPC32, the Doppler correction is fed to the rig, and it's one less manual operation to split your limited time amongst.
Keep the TenTec on the shelf, in the collection.
And as somebody else pointed out, get started setting up and practicing NOW!!
If you wait until Field Day weekend, you'll wind up extremely frustrated, with few or no contacts!
I know, as I used to do it that way every year. I think the best I ever got was three contacts one year.
The next year I started two months early, and I made THIRTY FIVE contacts that year, just because:
I didn't forget anything at home, requiring numerous unnecessary trips back and forth (I also bought some Tupperware tubs to keep all the satellite stuff in!)
Everything worked because I had six weekends to practice setting up and operating before Field Day, ensuring all the bugs were worked out
I was a lot more comfortable using the station because I knew it all worked, and the stress level was much lower.
Good luck, get going, and listen for K6AA on Field Day, and KQ6EA the weeks before while I'm practicing!
73, Jim KQ6EA
On 05/21/2013 08:09 PM, Bill W1PA wrote:
I may set up a Field Day satellite station for our local club. I haven't done this in a while.... my last experience with a non-FM bird was AO-40.
I'd like to avoid the futility of the FM LEO's on FD, and look to the working passband birds, which I understand are AO-7, FO-29, and VO-52.
I have at my disposal a FT-847, an Arrow satellite antenna (V/U), and if needed, various preamps and poweramps for 2m and 432, as well as antennas with more elements.
I also have a Ten Tec 2510 satellite unit that does not have the "extra crystal board", which I understand makes it a non-starter for the 3 birds I mentioned.
For those of you experienced with the bandpass birds, assuming an outdoor, clear sky access location, what should I bring? (i.e. will the FT-847 stock amp be sufficient? How many elements do I need for uplink? pre-amp for downlink? etc)
I also may only be able to work overnight (in darkness) -- that rules out AO-7, correct?
Bill W1PA ______________________________**_________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bbhttp://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
______________________________**_________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bbhttp://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Yep, it's about 13* here in SoCal.
Jim
On 05/22/2013 11:39 AM, Rolf Krogstad wrote:
Sorry, I forgot to say it makes a difference because of Magnetic Declination - the difference between magnetic north and true north.
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Rolf Krogstad rolf.krogstad@gmail.comwrote:
Jim makes a good point. Know where the points of the compass are.
And, depending on where you are located, that is not as simple as just taking out a compass. It can make a fair amount of difference if you are in the western states of the US and not so much, if any, if you are in some place like Pensacola, Florida.
NOAA has a calculator: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag-web/#declination
73 Rolf NR0T EN34 Amsat-NA #38889
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Jim Jerzycke kq6ea@verizon.net wrote:
You're definitely approaching it in the right way, Bill!
An FT-847 is an excellent satellite rig, and in combination with a small gain antenna, will be an excellent station.
The 50 Watts the '847 provides is more than enough RF power, even with the Arrow, or similar Elk, antenna.
A preamps are highly recommended, especially with a smaller antenna.
Use a diplexer "in reverse" to help get rid of desense. It's more important than you'd think.
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-**new/articles/Mode-J/http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/articles/Mode-J/
A few other tips to help you.......
If you're going to be running tracking software, like SatPC32, make SURE your PC has the correct time set!
An error of 10~15 seconds may not sound like much, but it can cause you point your antennas wrong, and ruin a pass.
Same with your Lat/Lon. I use a GPS, which also supplies an accurate clock to the laptop, but a lot of people get by with just using grid squares.
Know precisely *WHERE* North, South. East, and West are at your station location.
You'd be surprised how many people don't, and then can't find the sats as they come up over the horizon.
Have a helper to point the antenna, as you'll be busy doing the "Doppler Dance".
Again, if you run SatPC32, the Doppler correction is fed to the rig, and it's one less manual operation to split your limited time amongst.
Keep the TenTec on the shelf, in the collection.
And as somebody else pointed out, get started setting up and practicing NOW!!
If you wait until Field Day weekend, you'll wind up extremely frustrated, with few or no contacts!
I know, as I used to do it that way every year. I think the best I ever got was three contacts one year.
The next year I started two months early, and I made THIRTY FIVE contacts that year, just because:
I didn't forget anything at home, requiring numerous unnecessary trips back and forth (I also bought some Tupperware tubs to keep all the satellite stuff in!)
Everything worked because I had six weekends to practice setting up and operating before Field Day, ensuring all the bugs were worked out
I was a lot more comfortable using the station because I knew it all worked, and the stress level was much lower.
Good luck, get going, and listen for K6AA on Field Day, and KQ6EA the weeks before while I'm practicing!
73, Jim KQ6EA
On 05/21/2013 08:09 PM, Bill W1PA wrote:
I may set up a Field Day satellite station for our local club. I haven't done this in a while.... my last experience with a non-FM bird was AO-40.
I'd like to avoid the futility of the FM LEO's on FD, and look to the working passband birds, which I understand are AO-7, FO-29, and VO-52.
I have at my disposal a FT-847, an Arrow satellite antenna (V/U), and if needed, various preamps and poweramps for 2m and 432, as well as antennas with more elements.
I also have a Ten Tec 2510 satellite unit that does not have the "extra crystal board", which I understand makes it a non-starter for the 3 birds I mentioned.
For those of you experienced with the bandpass birds, assuming an outdoor, clear sky access location, what should I bring? (i.e. will the FT-847 stock amp be sufficient? How many elements do I need for uplink? pre-amp for downlink? etc)
I also may only be able to work overnight (in darkness) -- that rules out AO-7, correct?
Bill W1PA ______________________________**_________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bbhttp://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
______________________________**_________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bbhttp://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (6)
-
Bill Acito -
Bill W1PA
-
Jim Jerzycke -
Philip Jenkins -
Rolf Krogstad -
Stephen E. Belter