And now back to normal.
Lots of folks are running unattended beacons on 145.825, which can cause QRM to HO-68 FM users. I only decoded about half of those heard:
21:59 HP1AVS-4/WIDE2-2>P8SS1X>UI,R,F0 (1199 baud): 'kPUl .-/]DIGIPEATER en Gorgona
22:00 K4MQF/WIDE2-2>RS0ISS-4>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): =3811.25N/07746.23W`PHG52306/Greeting to all ! from Spotyslvania Va
22:00 AB5JO/RELAY/WIDE>GPSC30>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): 73 VIA ARISS DE AB5JO MOBILE IN LAREDO,TX, USA EL07
22:00 AB5JO/RELAY/WIDE>GPSC30>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): $GPRMC,220035,A,2734.3349,N,09930.1045,W,000.0,195.8,231010,,,A*6C
22:01 AB5JO/RELAY/WIDE>GPSC30>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): 73 VIA ARISS DE AB5JO MOBILE IN LAREDO,TX, USA EL07
22:01 AB5JO/RELAY/WIDE>GPSC30>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): $GPRMC,220135,A,2734.3349,N,09930.1045,W,000.0,195.8,231010,,,A*6D
22:04 N1NCB1-14/W3ADO-1/ARISS>4S3T6X>UI,?,F0 (1194 baud): `b2Fp4V[/"3y} 22:04 WA1KAT/RS0ISS-4/SGATE/WIDE>BEACON>UI,?,F0 (1199 baud): =4239.70N/07057.02W-Topsfield,MA 5w vertical
22:04 W9QO/ARISS/SGATE/WIDE2-2>STPX2U>UI,R,F0 (1199 baud): 'oIrl!e-/]"6Y}
22:05 K4MQF/WIDE2-2>RS0ISS-4>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): =3811.25N/07746.23W`PHG52306/Greeting to all ! from Spotyslvania Va
22:05 VE3FFR/W3ADO-1/SGATE/WIDE>APRS>UI,R,F0 (1199 baud): !4416.01N/07629.01W- 22:05 W9QO/ARISS/SGATE/WIDE2-2>STPX2U>UI,R,F0 (1199 baud): 'oIrl!e-/]"6Y}
There was a little gap there in the middle where I swapped over to the 435.300 repeater, and gaps at each end.
73, Drew KO4MA AMSAT-NA VP Operations
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Sent: Oct 23, 2010 4:35 PM To: amsat-bb amsat-bb@amsat.org Cc: "marklhammond@gmail.com" marklhammond@gmail.com Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-51 short experiment
From 2025UTC this afternoon, for 1-2 orbits, the 435.150 downlink on AO-51 is configured as a repeater and being used to monitor 145.825. Please DO NOT attempt to transmit through this downlink! We are taking a look at congestion and unattended operation that may be impacting the use of HO-68 in FM mode. Reception reports are of course welcome.
73, Drew KO4MA AMSAT-VP Operations
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Any chance we could get the ISS to change their packet frequency?
73, Bob Herrell AJ5C
________________________________ From: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com To: amsat-bb amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sat, October 23, 2010 5:13:29 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-51 short experiment
And now back to normal.
Lots of folks are running unattended beacons on 145.825, which can cause QRM to HO-68 FM users. I only decoded about half of those heard:
21:59 HP1AVS-4/WIDE2-2>P8SS1X>UI,R,F0 (1199 baud): 'kPUl .-/]DIGIPEATER en Gorgona
22:00 K4MQF/WIDE2-2>RS0ISS-4>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): =3811.25N/07746.23W`PHG52306/Greeting to all ! from Spotyslvania Va
22:00 AB5JO/RELAY/WIDE>GPSC30>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): 73 VIA ARISS DE AB5JO MOBILE IN LAREDO,TX, USA EL07
22:00 AB5JO/RELAY/WIDE>GPSC30>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): $GPRMC,220035,A,2734.3349,N,09930.1045,W,000.0,195.8,231010,,,A*6C
22:01 AB5JO/RELAY/WIDE>GPSC30>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): 73 VIA ARISS DE AB5JO MOBILE IN LAREDO,TX, USA EL07
22:01 AB5JO/RELAY/WIDE>GPSC30>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): $GPRMC,220135,A,2734.3349,N,09930.1045,W,000.0,195.8,231010,,,A*6D
22:04 N1NCB1-14/W3ADO-1/ARISS>4S3T6X>UI,?,F0 (1194 baud): `b2Fp4V[/"3y} 22:04 WA1KAT/RS0ISS-4/SGATE/WIDE>BEACON>UI,?,F0 (1199 baud): =4239.70N/07057.02W-Topsfield,MA 5w vertical
22:04 W9QO/ARISS/SGATE/WIDE2-2>STPX2U>UI,R,F0 (1199 baud): 'oIrl!e-/]"6Y}
22:05 K4MQF/WIDE2-2>RS0ISS-4>UI,R,F0 (1200 baud): =3811.25N/07746.23W`PHG52306/Greeting to all ! from Spotyslvania Va
22:05 VE3FFR/W3ADO-1/SGATE/WIDE>APRS>UI,R,F0 (1199 baud): !4416.01N/07629.01W- 22:05 W9QO/ARISS/SGATE/WIDE2-2>STPX2U>UI,R,F0 (1199 baud): 'oIrl!e-/]"6Y}
There was a little gap there in the middle where I swapped over to the 435.300 repeater, and gaps at each end.
73, Drew KO4MA AMSAT-NA VP Operations
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Sent: Oct 23, 2010 4:35 PM To: amsat-bb amsat-bb@amsat.org Cc: "marklhammond@gmail.com" marklhammond@gmail.com Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-51 short experiment
From 2025UTC this afternoon, for 1-2 orbits, the 435.150 downlink on AO-51 is configured as a repeater and being used to monitor 145.825. Please DO NOT attempt to transmit through this downlink! We are taking a look at congestion and unattended operation that may be impacting the use of HO-68 in FM mode. Reception reports are of course welcome.
73, Drew KO4MA AMSAT-VP Operations
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bob,
145.825 is the "established" space APRS frequency, and has been/is used by more than just the ISS for years. There are other APRS satellites which are intermittently active on the same frequency, and I expect there will be others in the future. I can't address the formal coordination issue, but anything with an uplink on that frequency is guaranteed to have problems. The only question is whether those problems are tolerable. There is little to no APRS activity on that frequency over most of the world, and then there is the question of both HO-68 and the ISS being in the same footprint. The HO-68 has an inclination of about 102 degrees, the ISS about half that. Finally, the ISS is not active on that frequency 24/7. It operates on other frequencies for voice and SSTV, and is often QRT completely due to other operations. In an imperfect world, it looks like a reasonable tradeoff, though other evaluations are certainly possible.
The problem of unattended APRS beacons does cut both ways. There are some daylight-only APRS satellites. When they enter periods of extended illumination, they can be commanded from their default modes. However, even a single "braaap" can pull the DC busses low enough that the command stations need to start over again. WB4APR has lamented this problem, with specific calls, in other venues. Looking at some of the paths, both in Drew's example and my reception, there are stations whose paths have not been updated for years.
The sort of courtesy/coordination issue is not limited to space operations. A ham relatively local to me fired up a propagation beacon on 30 meters this month. It is/was within 200 HZ of an APRS frequency which has been in use for some time. Quite a fight over who "owns" the frequency. ;)
Alan WA4SCA
No one 'owns the frequency' and if in-place coordination can not resolve the issue, the newest user should consider moving out of the required bandpass. Was the first user ever coordinated? ~~Larry W7IN~~
On 10/24/2010 2:45 PM, Alan P. Biddle wrote:
Bob,
145.825 is the "established" space APRS frequency, and has been/is used by more than just the ISS for years. There are other APRS satellites which are intermittently active on the same frequency, and I expect there will be others in the future. I can't address the formal coordination issue, but anything with an uplink on that frequency is guaranteed to have problems. The only question is whether those problems are tolerable. There is little to no APRS activity on that frequency over most of the world, and then there is the question of both HO-68 and the ISS being in the same footprint. The HO-68 has an inclination of about 102 degrees, the ISS about half that. Finally, the ISS is not active on that frequency 24/7. It operates on other frequencies for voice and SSTV, and is often QRT completely due to other operations. In an imperfect world, it looks like a reasonable tradeoff, though other evaluations are certainly possible.
The problem of unattended APRS beacons does cut both ways. There are some daylight-only APRS satellites. When they enter periods of extended illumination, they can be commanded from their default modes. However, even a single "braaap" can pull the DC busses low enough that the command stations need to start over again. WB4APR has lamented this problem, with specific calls, in other venues. Looking at some of the paths, both in Drew's example and my reception, there are stations whose paths have not been updated for years.
The sort of courtesy/coordination issue is not limited to space operations. A ham relatively local to me fired up a propagation beacon on 30 meters this month. It is/was within 200 HZ of an APRS frequency which has been in use for some time. Quite a fight over who "owns" the frequency. ;)
Alan WA4SCA
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Alan,
I agree with you totally. It is going to be an ongoing problem and unless individual operators take responsibility for their emissions, it is going to continue. Even with coordination the frequency is still not owned by any particular station. It is just common courtesy that we need to show to each other. Are these APRS stations just beaconing in hopes of hitting the ISS or are they in use for normal APRS? I don't see 145.825MHz being used as a terrestrial frequency. I can understand the problem when HO-68 and the ISS are in the same footprint, but to run a station continuously on 145.825MHz is crazy. I do send packets to the ISS myself, but ONLY when it is in view and turned on. It all boils down to the old idea of "Listen before you talk".
73, Bob AJ5C
________________________________ From: Alan P. Biddle APBIDDLE@UNITED.NET To: Bob Herrell nk7i@yahoo.com; amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sun, October 24, 2010 3:45:18 PM Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-51 short experiment
Bob,
145.825 is the "established" space APRS frequency, and has been/is used by more than just the ISS for years. There are other APRS satellites which are intermittently active on the same frequency, and I expect there will be others in the future. I can't address the formal coordination issue, but anything with an uplink on that frequency is guaranteed to have problems. The only question is whether those problems are tolerable. There is little to no APRS activity on that frequency over most of the world, and then there is the question of both HO-68 and the ISS being in the same footprint. The HO-68 has an inclination of about 102 degrees, the ISS about half that. Finally, the ISS is not active on that frequency 24/7. It operates on other frequencies for voice and SSTV, and is often QRT completely due to other operations. In an imperfect world, it looks like a reasonable tradeoff, though other evaluations are certainly possible.
The problem of unattended APRS beacons does cut both ways. There are some daylight-only APRS satellites. When they enter periods of extended illumination, they can be commanded from their default modes. However, even a single "braaap" can pull the DC busses low enough that the command stations need to start over again. WB4APR has lamented this problem, with specific calls, in other venues. Looking at some of the paths, both in Drew's example and my reception, there are stations whose paths have not been updated for years.
The sort of courtesy/coordination issue is not limited to space operations. A ham relatively local to me fired up a propagation beacon on 30 meters this month. It is/was within 200 HZ of an APRS frequency which has been in use for some time. Quite a fight over who "owns" the frequency. ;)
Alan WA4SCA
Sorta on the same order as the 432mhz ground station terrestrial stations messing with AO-7 in mode B. There though we are blessed with extra bandwidth on the linear translator vs single channel FM repeater. HO-68 is a PITA to work on FM for me, but great linear bird.
John W6ZKH
________________________________ From: Bob Herrell nk7i@yahoo.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sun, October 24, 2010 3:02:24 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-51 short experiment
Alan,
I agree with you totally. It is going to be an ongoing problem and unless individual operators take responsibility for their emissions, it is going to continue. Even with coordination the frequency is still not owned by any particular station. It is just common courtesy that we need to show to each other. Are these APRS stations just beaconing in hopes of hitting the ISS or are
they in use for normal APRS? I don't see 145.825MHz being used as a terrestrial frequency. I can understand the problem when HO-68 and the ISS are in the same footprint, but to run a station continuously on 145.825MHz is crazy. I do send packets to the ISS myself, but ONLY when it is in view and turned on. It all boils down to the old idea of "Listen before you talk".
73, Bob AJ5C
________________________________ From: Alan P. Biddle APBIDDLE@UNITED.NET To: Bob Herrell nk7i@yahoo.com; amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sun, October 24, 2010 3:45:18 PM Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-51 short experiment
Bob,
145.825 is the "established" space APRS frequency, and has been/is used by more than just the ISS for years. There are other APRS satellites which are intermittently active on the same frequency, and I expect there will be others in the future. I can't address the formal coordination issue, but anything with an uplink on that frequency is guaranteed to have problems. The only question is whether those problems are tolerable. There is little to no APRS activity on that frequency over most of the world, and then there is the question of both HO-68 and the ISS being in the same footprint. The HO-68 has an inclination of about 102 degrees, the ISS about half that. Finally, the ISS is not active on that frequency 24/7. It operates on other frequencies for voice and SSTV, and is often QRT completely due to other operations. In an imperfect world, it looks like a reasonable tradeoff, though other evaluations are certainly possible.
The problem of unattended APRS beacons does cut both ways. There are some daylight-only APRS satellites. When they enter periods of extended illumination, they can be commanded from their default modes. However, even a single "braaap" can pull the DC busses low enough that the command stations need to start over again. WB4APR has lamented this problem, with specific calls, in other venues. Looking at some of the paths, both in Drew's example and my reception, there are stations whose paths have not been updated for years.
The sort of courtesy/coordination issue is not limited to space operations. A ham relatively local to me fired up a propagation beacon on 30 meters this month. It is/was within 200 HZ of an APRS frequency which has been in use for some time. Quite a fight over who "owns" the frequency. ;)
Alan WA4SCA
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
At 11:09 AM 10/24/2010 -0700, Bob Herrell nk7i@yahoo.com wrote:
Any chance we could get the ISS to change their packet frequency?
73, Bob Herrell AJ5C
No,
The APRS QRM'ers with their unattended beacons are the problem. Years ago I said APRS was bad, but I never thought it would ever get this bad. Things definitely aren't like they were in the MIR days, when you could make multiple contacts a pass with minimal equipment. I could build a setup for packet that every single one of my packets would get through, but what good would the do? So I could have a QSO with myself? So I give up.
The APRS'ers should build a dedicated satellite just for APRS, and their QRM should be limited to just that one satellite, unless they won't to build more.
Hell, I'd even donate to it just to clean things up!
KB7ADL
participants (6)
-
Alan P. Biddle -
Andrew Glasbrenner -
Bob Herrell -
John Neeley -
Larry Gerhardstein -
Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL