... US military operations [slightly OT]
As i understand it, AMSAT is NOT a political organization. While i am deeply concerned by the actions of the US military, i do know who are the 'Commander and Chief' is; and i also recognize that the US military is, by necessity, a very diverse organization. I would not like to think of where amateur satellites would be without cooperation with the US and Russian military. For a very recent example, i'm not sure we'd have international APRS. The military is capable of good science and, alas in the 'States, outside of universities nd colleges, one of the few places where good science is still being actively funded.
In my town, we have demonstrations on the main street every Friday (with representatatives from both sides). I think that is an appropriate forum for discussion of actions of the US Military. So is the US Congress, as well as the newspapers, streets and public assemblies inplaces throughout the world. In my opinion, the AMSAT-BB is not.
Respectivefully submitted, -- KD6PAG (Networking Old-Timer, Satellite QRPer)
P.S. I will be in CM99 this long weekend on available J-FM satellites if anyone needs it.
Just to pointed out i asked at numerous occasion to have this BB moderated and my request where always turned down as this BB is "open". This mean it is not restricted to any subjects.
As my first message regarding AO-51 use by US military forces was not intended for this one at least to show up any conspiracy but conflicting utilization of an IARU amateur service allocated satellite.
Irresponsible and uncontrolled operations on AO-51 regarding IARU is all what's my post is about. It is not related to anything else and the funding issues and the benefits from volunteers are not the purpose of my post.
Making amateurs radio satellite available to military services is a dangerous precedent! Is an Iranian korean chinese military satellite using 145.820 and build by cadets will be endorse by AMSAT-NA? Its time Misses Leber to act...again lightly {uprorious laughter ensues} :(
In a way to help some (both gender here...) {uprorious laughter ensues} to remain focused on the subject or the task Here is an excerpt of the IARU INFORMATION FOR DEVELOPERS OF SATELLITES PLANNING TO USE FREQUENCY BANDS ALLOCATED TO THE AMATEUR-SATELLITE SERVICE section VIII. REVIEW MISSION PLANS item B
B. Alternatives to the amateur-satellite service
Alternatives to the amateur-satellite service exist in the many satellite services for which allocations are provided in the Radio Regulations. See Annex IV for a complete list of services, including satellite services, to which frequencies are allocated. For missions not fitting into one of the existing services, particularly for short term research or school projects, experimental stations may be licensed by administrations. See: Article 27 of the Radio Regulations. Experimental stations may be assigned on any frequency on a secondary basis. NOTE: Experimental stations authorized by one administration are not normally permitted to communicate with experimental stations authorized by another. Special international arrangements are required. [See: RR 27.1.] If experimental licensing is proposed using frequencies in an amateur-satellite service allocation, then the IARU Satellite Advisor may be able to help guide your frequency planning so as to minimise the probability of interference to and from licensed amateur satellite service stations. Administrations normally consider experimental stations assecondary to all other licensed stations. So, frequency coordination is particularly important for assuring mission success.
NOTE: When ready to ask for IARU frequency coordination, please, be sure to use the latest frequency coordination request form! The form changes from time to time.
I know stupidity has no sex {uprorious laughter ensues} I like this one probably my next signature comment, but the more cubes we put in spaces the more we open our spectrum to non amateur operations.
Get a cheap satellite in the space on the HAM satellite band. Just put a repeater in it promised them to let them operate it at the end of his life and bingo you got a free ride... The dummies are even "helping US the Abou Ghraib/Guantanamo folks they even called us their friends"{uprorious laughter ensues}
As an "international" organization AMSAT-NA should not put themselves in a week position supporting the military as some will probably tend to extend the debate. As one mentioned it so well " While i am deeply concerned by the actions of the US military, i do know who are the 'Commander and Chief' is; and i also recognize that the US military is, by necessity, a very diverse organization"
The same "necessity" was also present in Vietnam and if some are willing to sell their souls and principles for money i am not and its why i wrote and signed again "I know i wrote in the past that AMSAT'S should be "innovative" but not to a point to prostitute with any military action or operation."
I know a time where floks down the border where much more concerned and less inclined towards the lighter and easy side EG:{uprorious laughter ensues}
Some link of interest:
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/9/4377 http://www.julien-daillere.com/filmacoz/english/actions-english.html http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/09/iraq.main/index.html http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/07/iraq8560.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prison http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse
Margaret Leber K3XS and Andrew Glasbrenner KO4MA both wrote in their own time:
" please be patient as we cooperate with our friends at the USAFA" {uprorious laughter ensues}
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002502.html
"-" "Stupidity has no sex" {uprorious laughter ensues}
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
Luc: LIGHTEN UP! Just a reminder, if it wasn't for the United States Military, there wouldn't be a Satellite program on this hemisphere, nor would AMSAT-NA exist. If you had done your homework, you would know that it was the USAF that put up many of the earliest Amateur Radio Satellites, I don't see Canada putting up any money to support space exploration. Your right, this BB isn't moderated so all dissenting views can be expressed.
Get a life dude! Regards, DE K7ZT Joe Westbrook, MSgt., USAF Retired
----- Original Message ----- From: "Luc Leblanc" lucleblanc6@videotron.ca To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:13 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ... US military operations [slightly OT]
Just to pointed out i asked at numerous occasion to have this BB moderated and my request where always turned down as this BB is "open". This mean it is not restricted to any subjects.
As my first message regarding AO-51 use by US military forces was not intended for this one at least to show up any conspiracy but conflicting utilization of an IARU amateur service allocated satellite.
Irresponsible and uncontrolled operations on AO-51 regarding IARU is all what's my post is about. It is not related to anything else and the funding issues and the benefits from volunteers are not the purpose of my post.
Making amateurs radio satellite available to military services is a dangerous precedent! Is an Iranian korean chinese military satellite using 145.820 and build by cadets will be endorse by AMSAT-NA? Its time Misses Leber to act...again lightly {uprorious laughter ensues} :(
In a way to help some (both gender here...) {uprorious laughter ensues} to remain focused on the subject or the task Here is an excerpt of the IARU INFORMATION FOR DEVELOPERS OF SATELLITES PLANNING TO USE FREQUENCY BANDS ALLOCATED TO THE AMATEUR-SATELLITE SERVICE section VIII. REVIEW MISSION PLANS item B
B. Alternatives to the amateur-satellite service
Alternatives to the amateur-satellite service exist in the many satellite services for which allocations are provided in the Radio Regulations. See Annex IV for a complete list of services, including satellite services, to which frequencies are allocated. For missions not fitting into one of the existing services, particularly for short term research or school projects, experimental stations may be licensed by administrations. See: Article 27 of the Radio Regulations. Experimental stations may be assigned on any frequency on a secondary basis. NOTE: Experimental stations authorized by one administration are not normally permitted to communicate with experimental stations authorized by another. Special international arrangements are required. [See: RR 27.1.] If experimental licensing is proposed using frequencies in an amateur-satellite service allocation, then the IARU Satellite Advisor may be able to help guide your frequency planning so as to minimise the probability of interference to and from licensed amateur satellite service stations. Administrations normally consider experimental stations assecondary to all other licensed stations. So, frequency coordination is particularly important for assuring mission success.
NOTE: When ready to ask for IARU frequency coordination, please, be sure to use the latest frequency coordination request form! The form changes from time to time.
I know stupidity has no sex {uprorious laughter ensues} I like this one probably my next signature comment, but the more cubes we put in spaces the more we open our spectrum to non amateur operations.
Get a cheap satellite in the space on the HAM satellite band. Just put a repeater in it promised them to let them operate it at the end of his life and bingo you got a free ride... The dummies are even "helping US the Abou Ghraib/Guantanamo folks they even called us their friends"{uprorious laughter ensues}
As an "international" organization AMSAT-NA should not put themselves in a week position supporting the military as some will probably tend to extend the debate. As one mentioned it so well " While i am deeply concerned by the actions of the US military, i do know who are the 'Commander and Chief' is; and i also recognize that the US military is, by necessity, a very diverse organization"
The same "necessity" was also present in Vietnam and if some are willing to sell their souls and principles for money i am not and its why i wrote and signed again "I know i wrote in the past that AMSAT'S should be "innovative" but not to a point to prostitute with any military action or operation."
I know a time where floks down the border where much more concerned and less inclined towards the lighter and easy side EG:{uprorious laughter ensues}
Some link of interest:
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/9/4377 http://www.julien-daillere.com/filmacoz/english/actions-english.html http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/09/iraq.main/index.html http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/07/iraq8560.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prison http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse
Margaret Leber K3XS and Andrew Glasbrenner KO4MA both wrote in their own time:
" please be patient as we cooperate with our friends at the USAFA" {uprorious laughter ensues}
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002502.html
"-" "Stupidity has no sex" {uprorious laughter ensues}
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 2/17/07, Joe Westbrook k7zt@suddenlink.net wrote:
I don't see Canada putting up any money to support space exploration. Your right, this BB isn't moderated so all dissenting views can be expressed.
That a forum is unmoderated does not mean it's available to all for whatever lunatic propaganda suits them.
But it's entirely untrue that Canada doesn't support space exploration; you need look no further than the Shuttle Remote Manipulator System (Canadarm 1) or the Space Station Remote Manipulator, Mobile Base and Special Purpose Dexterous Manipulator (Canadarm 2) for counterexamples.
73 de Maggie K3XS Editor, Phil-Mont Mobile Radio Club Blurb - http://www.phil-mont.org Elecraft K2 #1641 -- AOPA 925383 -- ARRL 39280
OK Margaret, I stand corrected, Canada participated.
My point was that it was earlier US Funded vehicles that launched many AMSAT Satellites. Consider AO-7 still in use by the AMSAT community at large launched at Vandenberg Air Force Base along with other government payloads.
I just bristle when certain folks decide to proclaim that AMSAT-NA should be neutral, in terms of any "official" military sanctioned participation. My point is that our hobby that has brought enjoyment for most of us probably wouldn't exist if it hadn't been for the US and Russian military.
Folks just need to get beyond their personal bigotry towards any synergies we can benefit from as a result of military involvement.
- Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Leber" maggie@voicenet.com To: "Joe Westbrook" k7zt@suddenlink.net Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 7:10 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ... US military operations [slightly OT]
On 2/17/07, Joe Westbrook k7zt@suddenlink.net wrote:
I don't see Canada putting up any money to support space exploration. Your right, this BB isn't moderated so all dissenting views can be expressed.
That a forum is unmoderated does not mean it's available to all for whatever lunatic propaganda suits them.
But it's entirely untrue that Canada doesn't support space exploration; you need look no further than the Shuttle Remote Manipulator System (Canadarm 1) or the Space Station Remote Manipulator, Mobile Base and Special Purpose Dexterous Manipulator (Canadarm 2) for counterexamples.
73 de Maggie K3XS Editor, Phil-Mont Mobile Radio Club Blurb - http://www.phil-mont.org Elecraft K2 #1641 -- AOPA 925383 -- ARRL 39280 _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 18 Feb 2007 at 11:00, Joe Westbrook wrote:
Folks just need to get beyond their personal bigotry towards any synergies we can benefit from as a result of military involvement.
- Joe
Here is the link Joe is probably referring to when he said "any synergies we can benefit from as a result of military involvement."
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/07/06/655/67110
About time you be kicked in the place where it make's your head off the soil...a Sgt Pepper song... or the beattles!
"-" "It is not the class of license the amateur holds, but the class of the amateur that holds the license."
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
participants (5)
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Ernie Howard -
Joe Westbrook -
John Mock KD6PAG -
Luc Leblanc -
Margaret Leber