Gorgeous view of Discovery climbing out tonight from across the state. It gave me a good feeling, especially knowing there are ham radio satellites onboard!
73, Drew KO4MA
This was my first opportunity to actually view the Shuttle launch from my own back yard (in Silver Springs). When it first fired off we looked to the south east. At first I thought what I saw was the lights from town, about 4 miles away. The horizon was lit up pretty well. THen the exhaust from the launch vehicle became quite apparent and the light on the horizon faded away. Watched until it moved behind that big old pine tree and then went back to the TV coverage.
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Glasbrenner Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 01:57 UTC To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Discovery
Gorgeous view of Discovery climbing out tonight from across the state. It gave me a good feeling, especially knowing there are ham radio satellites onboard!
73, Drew KO4MA
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Hi All: I saw STS-116 for a brief 10 seconds SE of Block Island Sound. It appeared as an orange glowing nickel sized object SE of Block Island Sound prior to MESO. It disappeared when the main engine was shut off.
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of John Wilcox / NS1Z Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 6:22 AM To: Andrew Glasbrenner; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Discovery
This was my first opportunity to actually view the Shuttle launch from my own back yard (in Silver Springs). When it first fired off we looked to the south east. At first I thought what I saw was the lights from town, about 4 miles away. The horizon was lit up pretty well. THen the exhaust from the launch vehicle became quite apparent and the light on the horizon faded away. Watched until it moved behind that big old pine tree and then went back to the TV coverage.
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Glasbrenner Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 01:57 UTC To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Discovery
Gorgeous view of Discovery climbing out tonight from across the state. It gave me a good feeling, especially knowing there are ham radio satellites onboard!
73, Drew KO4MA
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Gorgeous view of Discovery climbing out tonight from across the state. It gave me a good feeling, especially knowing there are ham radio satellites onboard!
73, Drew KO4MA
Ditto! Great view from the east coast of New Jersey straight through main engine cutoff.
Evening visible passes of the STS/ISS complex will begin towards the end of the week.
73, de John, KD2BD
Visit John on the Web at:
http://kd2bd.ham.org/ . . . .
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That is the last time I listen to the talking heads at CNN (making me a lemming) instead of calculating myself. They had a story which stated it would not be visible north of North Carolina, so I did not go out. The simplest kind of approximation says they are attempting to enter a certain orbit which has a certain well known orbital period. In order to achieve this, the motors would have to be going long past the time the shuttle would come above the horizon here. We know from experience how long the motors burn. I just did not turn on my brain.
DRAT.
I bet it was awesome.
Feeling dumb in NJ, Bob
John Magliacane wrote:
Gorgeous view of Discovery climbing out tonight from across the state. It gave me a good feeling, especially knowing there are ham radio satellites onboard!
73, Drew KO4MA
Ditto! Great view from the east coast of New Jersey straight through main engine cutoff.
Evening visible passes of the STS/ISS complex will begin towards the end of the week.
73, de John, KD2BD
Visit John on the Web at:
http://kd2bd.ham.org/ . . . .
Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bob, N4HY wrote:
The simplest kind of approximation says they are attempting to enter a certain orbit which has a certain well known orbital period. In order to achieve this, the motors would have to be going long past the time the shuttle would come above the horizon here. We know from experience how long the motors burn.
An interesting observation made by several of us who were able to view the Shuttle from the NJ/NY region was that the Shuttle's main engines were still plainly visible AFTER the Shuttle had confirmed MECO.
Since I was listening to shuttle audio via our local ATV repeater, and the NASA-TV feed into the repeater is via an MPEG-2 satellite feed (the encode/decode process of which introduces some noticeable delay), I would have expected to see MECO occur BEFORE the delayed announcement was received. In fact, just the opposite occurred.
Perhaps what we casual observers on the ground might define as main engine cutoff (the extinction of visible flame) isn't the true STS/NASA definition.
I also observed the engines "sputter" for a while after MECO was announced. In past launches, I attributed that effect to the Shuttle possibly moving behind some clouds.
But the skies on Saturday night were absolutely pristine.
Interesting...
73, de John, KD2BD
Visit John on the Web at:
http://kd2bd.ham.org/ . . . .
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John Magliacane wrote:
Bob, N4HY wrote:
The simplest kind of approximation says they are attempting to enter a certain orbit which has a certain well known orbital period. In order to achieve this, the motors would have to be going long past the time the shuttle would come above the horizon here. We know from experience how long the motors burn.
An interesting observation made by several of us who were able to view the Shuttle from the NJ/NY region was that the Shuttle's main engines were still plainly visible AFTER the Shuttle had confirmed MECO.
Since I was listening to shuttle audio via our local ATV repeater, and the NASA-TV feed into the repeater is via an MPEG-2 satellite feed (the encode/decode process of which introduces some noticeable delay), I would have expected to see MECO occur BEFORE the delayed announcement was received. In fact, just the opposite occurred.
Perhaps what we casual observers on the ground might define as main engine cutoff (the extinction of visible flame) isn't the true STS/NASA definition.
I also observed the engines "sputter" for a while after MECO was announced. In past launches, I attributed that effect to the Shuttle possibly moving behind some clouds.
But the skies on Saturday night were absolutely pristine.
Interesting...
73, de John, KD2BD
I'm no expert, just some casual layman's notes below, but did you watch the replays on NASA TV, John? Some of what you saw could probably be described from the video from the External Tank (ET) centerline camera video. (Which is absolutely phenomenal by the way... if you haven't seen it and you're reading this, find an outlet for the Flight Day 1 video and watch the launch videos. The lame press here in the States doesn't ever play the good stuff.)
Just after MECO, there's a bunch of thruster, and (I think) OMS engine firing to pull away (+Z) from the dropped ET. Plus I would assume the main engine bells are probably still quite hot, possibly producing visible light? That last part is just a guess.
The centerline camera images this time showed that the thruster and other things firing during the ET drop, light up the tank and the underside of the orbiter almost perfectly.
I think this might have been the "sputtering" you were seeing.
According the Flight Day 1 Press Conference, the planners at NASA had cancelled the burn ("+X Flyby") that they do in daylight to "fly" the Shuttle past the ET camera for inspection via the ET camera, because they thought the orbiter would be in total darkness.
Turns out that there was PLENTY of light to do that "+X flyby" of the camera on the ET, and they're now planning on re-adding it to the flight plan on future night launches.
They even used the imagery to give a preliminary assessment of the condition of the underside of Discovery long before the Flight Director and management were expecting it. It was that bright. From what I saw, I agreed.
The other really amazing thing about the ET camera shots both times I've watched it is the plasma / "St. Elmo's Fire" effects on the wing leading edges, especially during the above-mentioned +X flyby and even more-so when they do the pitch-up and over maneuver to flip the Shuttle on its back so crewmembers inside can photograph the ET. Absolutely gorgeous.
Additionally, seeing just how much friction is still happening the the very beginnings of orbit is interesting. The RCS jet plumes seem to flow backward just as if the Orbiter was in the atmosphere, even though it's already outside of "most" of it at that point in the flight. That surprised me. I know they're still in a very low Earth orbit at that point, but still was a "hmm, never thought of that" type of surprise when I first saw it.
Nate WY0X
Thought I'd pass along an interest article (in PC Magazine) entitled "Is Wi-Fi Headed toward an Early Grave?" _http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2070360,00.asp _ A rather mixed prediction since the article predicts 802.11n will replace WiFi and 802.11n can operate in both 2.4 and 5 GHz allocations.
We can only hope that 802.11a (5 GHz) and 802.11n operating at 5 GHz will take some of the heat off our 2.4 GHz band. The 5 GHz allocation offers more immunity to co-interference and allows for higher data rates. Perhaps the availability of still higher data rates will offer incentive (over the long term) to get users to opt for the higher frequency (above 2.4 GHz) networks.
Maybe I'm overly optimistic??
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
802.11n will increase usage of 2.4 GHz. If you want decent range 2.4 GHz is the band to use not 5 GHz.
We will continue to see increasing use of 2.4 GHz for a whole range of consumer devices.
It's why we need an Amateur Satellite allocation at 2490-2400 MHz in addition to 2400-2402 MHz.
73 Trevor M5AKA
--- Bill Ress bill@hsmicrowave.com wrote:
Thought I'd pass along an interest article (in PC Magazine) entitled "Is Wi-Fi Headed toward an Early Grave?" _http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2070360,00.asp _ A rather mixed prediction since the article predicts 802.11n will replace WiFi and 802.11n can operate in both 2.4 and 5 GHz allocations.
We can only hope that 802.11a (5 GHz) and 802.11n operating at 5 GHz will take some of the heat off our 2.4 GHz band. The 5 GHz allocation offers more immunity to co-interference and allows for higher data rates. Perhaps the availability of still higher data rates will offer incentive (over the long term) to get users to opt for the higher frequency (above 2.4 GHz) networks.
Maybe I'm overly optimistic??
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
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At 09:27 AM 12/13/2006, Trevor wrote:
It's why we need an Amateur Satellite allocation at 2490-2400 MHz in addition to 2400-2402 MHz.
I think you mean 2390-2400 ;)
Which will leave us out in the cold, unless it's used only for downlinks. We only have 2400-2450 here :(
73 de VK3JED http://vkradio.com
I did indeed mean 2390-2400 MHz, but we need to ensure 2400-2402 is protected as well so it can be used as an uplink if necessary.
The tragedy is that currently there are no common World-Wide Amateur S band segments below 2400 MHz , for instance I believe Japan only has 2400-2450 MHz.
Hopefully the ARRL and national societies will encourage their local regulators (FCC etc) to push for a World-Wide Amateur and Amateur Satellite allocation below 2400 as it's clear the band above 2402 MHz is becoming unusable.
73 Trevor M5AKA
--- Tony Langdon vk3jed@gmail.com wrote:
At 09:27 AM 12/13/2006, Trevor wrote:
It's why we need an Amateur Satellite allocation at 2490-2400 MHz in
addition
to 2400-2402 MHz.
I think you mean 2390-2400 ;)
Which will leave us out in the cold, unless it's used only for downlinks. We only have 2400-2450 here :(
73 de VK3JED http://vkradio.com
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At 10:41 AM 12/13/2006, Trevor wrote:
I did indeed mean 2390-2400 MHz, but we need to ensure 2400-2402 is protected as well so it can be used as an uplink if necessary.
The tragedy is that currently there are no common World-Wide Amateur S band segments below 2400 MHz , for instance I believe Japan only has 2400-2450 MHz.
Same in Oz, at least in the major population centres. :-(
Hopefully the ARRL and national societies will encourage their local regulators (FCC etc) to push for a World-Wide Amateur and Amateur Satellite allocation below 2400 as it's clear the band above 2402 MHz is becoming unusable.
We used to have 2300-2450 MHz across the entire country, but 2302 - 2400 was turned over to MDS TV broadcasting/narrowcasting several years ago, so the trend has been in the "wrong" direction in the last decade. :-(
73 de VK3JED http://vkradio.com
Trevor wrote:
802.11n will increase usage of 2.4 GHz. If you want decent range 2.4 GHz is the band to use not 5 GHz.
We will continue to see increasing use of 2.4 GHz for a whole range of consumer devices.
It's why we need an Amateur Satellite allocation at 2490-2400 MHz in addition to 2400-2402 MHz.
73 Trevor M5AKA
Hi Trevor,
It's that time of the year and I'm engaged in optimistic thinking. Will I ever learn?
I agree 150% on getting a better 2.4 GHz satellite allocation (and 3.4 GHz for your region).
I talked with Paul Rinaldo after his presentation at the AMSAT symposium and he said that if we hoped to get one within 10 to 15 years from now we'd better be working on it yesterday. He says it has to start with an AMSAT initiative to the ARRL, then through them to the FCC and then on to the IARU and then the WRC. Ugh - what a daunting "political" process.
Don't understand why AMSAT-NA or -UK leadership hasn't been out front with a campaign for allocation improvement - or if they have, why it isn't more visible.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
Hi Bill,
Watch this space... there will be two RSGB sponsored papers about improving the amateur satellite service allocations WORLDWIDE at the upcoming IARU Region 1 interim meeting next February in Vienna.
Full texts are due out in next couple of weeks... it would be good to have AMSAT-BB support for them when the time comes :)
And yes these are as a result of AMSAT-UK efforts and partly as a result of conversations with Paul at the Symposium!
cheers
Graham G3VZV
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Ress" bill@hsmicrowave.com To: "Trevor" m5aka@yahoo.co.uk Cc: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:11 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Is Wi-Fi Headed toward an Early Grave?
Trevor wrote:
802.11n will increase usage of 2.4 GHz. If you want decent range 2.4 GHz is the band to use not 5 GHz.
We will continue to see increasing use of 2.4 GHz for a whole range of consumer devices.
It's why we need an Amateur Satellite allocation at 2490-2400 MHz in addition to 2400-2402 MHz.
73 Trevor M5AKA
Hi Trevor,
It's that time of the year and I'm engaged in optimistic thinking. Will I ever learn?
I agree 150% on getting a better 2.4 GHz satellite allocation (and 3.4 GHz for your region).
I talked with Paul Rinaldo after his presentation at the AMSAT symposium and he said that if we hoped to get one within 10 to 15 years from now we'd better be working on it yesterday. He says it has to start with an AMSAT initiative to the ARRL, then through them to the FCC and then on to the IARU and then the WRC. Ugh - what a daunting "political" process.
Don't understand why AMSAT-NA or -UK leadership hasn't been out front with a campaign for allocation improvement - or if they have, why it isn't more visible.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
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Graham Shirville wrote:
Hi Bill,
Watch this space... there will be two RSGB sponsored papers about improving the amateur satellite service allocations WORLDWIDE at the upcoming IARU Region 1 interim meeting next February in Vienna.
Full texts are due out in next couple of weeks... it would be good to have AMSAT-BB support for them when the time comes :)
And yes these are as a result of AMSAT-UK efforts and partly as a result of conversations with Paul at the Symposium!
cheers
Graham G3VZV
Hi Graham,
*Great to hear that AMSAT-UK and RSGB is taking the initiative*!!!
By all means, be sure to solicit what ever support you might need. Paul mentioned that this kind of effort is so political that one must muster all the forces at ones disposal to make it happen.
Is AMSAT-NA involved with you on this? Hope the question isn't viewed "politically" but if they are not, and their support is needed, then we over here need to be lobbying our elected AMSAT officials.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
My 5 Ghz phone still switches between 5 and 2.4 for the best connect.
So yes, I think overly optimistic...
73 de Tim, K4SHF
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Bill Ress Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 4:48 PM To: amsat bb Subject: [amsat-bb] Is Wi-Fi Headed toward an Early Grave?
Thought I'd pass along an interest article (in PC Magazine) entitled "Is Wi-Fi Headed toward an Early Grave?" _http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2070360,00.asp _ A rather mixed prediction since the article predicts 802.11n will replace WiFi and 802.11n can operate in both 2.4 and 5 GHz allocations.
We can only hope that 802.11a (5 GHz) and 802.11n operating at 5 GHz will take some of the heat off our 2.4 GHz band. The 5 GHz allocation offers more immunity to co-interference and allows for higher data rates. Perhaps the availability of still higher data rates will offer incentive (over the long term) to get users to opt for the higher frequency (above 2.4 GHz) networks.
Maybe I'm overly optimistic??
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Robert McGwier wrote:
I bet it was awesome.
Feeling dumb in NJ, Bob
I knew better ... our friend Bill Harwood at CBS posted the ascent trajectory for us (you need to know the direction it was going to calculate the position completely, but I suppose the ISS orbital plane tells us that) and I didn't have the brains or gumption to calculate look angles from Boston ahead of time. I'll know better next time!
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/116/116ascentdata.html
-Feeling even dumber in Boston. Joe KM1P
John Magliacane wrote:
Gorgeous view of Discovery climbing out tonight from across the state. It gave me a good feeling, especially knowing there are ham radio satellites onboard!
Gwen NG3P and I went for a little drive up into the local hills near here (FN20hd) where I knew we'd have a view of the southeast horizon. Unfortunately that gave us a line-of-sight over the city of Phildelphia, which was a touch hazy.
While our view wasn't quite so spectacular as others, we certainly did see it, and Gwennie caught a glimpse of it with her video camera.
On 12/10/06, John Magliacane kd2bd@yahoo.com wrote:
Gorgeous view of Discovery climbing out tonight from across the state. It gave me a good feeling, especially knowing there are ham radio satellites onboard!
73, Drew KO4MA
I have to pile on here. I also saw it from here in southern Maryland. It appeared about 7 minutes after launch and was higher on the horizon than I expected. A rough guess would be about a "fist and a half" high. I watched it for about 2 minutes before it disappeared behind a thick line of trees. It was bright orange and moving at roughly the same speed as the ISS when it goes over. I have seen the ISS fly overhead many times, but this was my first time spotting a shuttle launch. Very cool stuff!!!
-- A.J. Farmer, AJ3U http://www.aj3u.com
All you guys (and gals) make me jealous! I've never seen a shuttle launch, except on HDNet. I've heard it going over numerous times on the way to Edwards, but never going up. Guess I just have to content myself with my job at Sea Launch! ;-) 73, Jim KQ6EA
--- "A.J. Farmer (AJ3U)" farmer.aj@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/10/06, John Magliacane kd2bd@yahoo.com wrote:
Gorgeous view of Discovery climbing out tonight
from across the state. It
gave me a good feeling, especially knowing there
are ham radio satellites
onboard!
73, Drew KO4MA
I have to pile on here. I also saw it from here in southern Maryland. It appeared about 7 minutes after launch and was higher on the horizon than I expected. A rough guess would be about a "fist and a half" high. I watched it for about 2 minutes before it disappeared behind a thick line of trees. It was bright orange and moving at roughly the same speed as the ISS when it goes over. I have seen the ISS fly overhead many times, but this was my first time spotting a shuttle launch. Very cool stuff!!!
-- A.J. Farmer, AJ3U http://www.aj3u.com _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
At 02:41 PM 12/10/06 -0800, Jim Jerzycke kq6ea@pacbell.netwrote:
All you guys (and gals) make me jealous! I've never seen a shuttle launch, except on HDNet. I've heard it going over numerous times on the way to Edwards, but never going up. Guess I just have to content myself with my job at Sea Launch! ;-) 73, Jim KQ6EA
I saw one once in person. The one thing that always surprises you is how fast it climbs and is out of sight. There was high cloud cover on the launch I saw and in only a few seconds it was already above the clouds.
KB7ADL
Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL wrote:
I saw one once in person. The one thing that always surprises you
is how
fast it climbs and is out of sight. There was high cloud cover on the launch I saw and in only a few seconds it was already above the clouds.
KB7ADL
When I was young my dad took me up on a large nearby hilltop and we watched a shuttle launch streak across the sky like a bright unnatural meteor.. I was amazed.
Later, when I went to college in central FL, we were at the same latitude as the cape.. On my way to classes I'd occasionally see a launch and the exhaust plumes scattering in the wind and the shuttle streaking skyward and out of sight in a matter of seconds. We were close enough that you could hear it if the conditions were right, and when it would pass through a cloud at night there would be a temporary increase in brightness from the light..
However, it really was never nearly as impressive as when I saw it streak across the sky from that hill in New Hampshire.. it was all over much too quickly.
73,
Jason N1XBP
I've been lucky enough to see 2 launches from Titusville and am always amazed that you not only see it, hear it, but also feel the launch. Even when you're 5 miles away. I can only imagine what Saturn launches must have been like. Doug KA8QCU
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason White" jason@jason.white.name To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 12:01 Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Discovery
Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL wrote:
I saw one once in person. The one thing that always surprises you
is how
fast it climbs and is out of sight. There was high cloud cover on the launch I saw and in only a few seconds it was already above the clouds.
KB7ADL
When I was young my dad took me up on a large nearby hilltop and we watched a shuttle launch streak across the sky like a bright unnatural meteor.. I was amazed.
Later, when I went to college in central FL, we were at the same latitude as the cape.. On my way to classes I'd occasionally see a launch and the exhaust plumes scattering in the wind and the shuttle streaking skyward and out of sight in a matter of seconds. We were close enough that you could hear it if the conditions were right, and when it would pass through a cloud at night there would be a temporary increase in brightness from the light..
However, it really was never nearly as impressive as when I saw it streak across the sky from that hill in New Hampshire.. it was all over much too quickly.
73,
Jason N1XBP _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (18)
-
A.J. Farmer (AJ3U) -
Andrew Glasbrenner -
Bill Ress -
Doug Kuitula -
GEORGE ABBOTT -
Graham Shirville -
Jason White -
Jim Jerzycke -
Joe Fitzgerald -
John Magliacane -
John Wilcox / NS1Z -
Margaret Leber -
Nate Duehr -
Robert McGwier -
Tim Tapio -
Tony Langdon -
Trevor -
Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL