Quoting i8cvs domenico.i8cvs@tin.it:
Hi Steve, N2JDQ
If your receiver has the capability to switch OFF the AGC than the following simple test will tell you if your preamplifier connected to the actual antenna is working or not for you:
Switch OFF the AGC, power OFF the preamplifier and tune the receiver in a free frequency to receive only the white noise
Connect an AC voltmeter (5 volt f.s) to the high impedance output of your RX audio hadphone jack
Switch the mode to CW or SSB wich uses the product detector wich is linear.
Reduce the RF gain to minimum
Increase the Audio gain to maximum
Aim your antenna at 90° elevation to the cold sky and adjust the RF
gain until you read 1 volt due to the white noise and call this voltage V1
- Without changing anything aim your antenna to the horizon at 0°
elevation where half of the antenna lobe should now pick up more ground noise and read the new voltage and call this voltage V2
- Make the ratio V2/V1 wich is your (S+N)/N with preamplifier OFF
Repeat the above steps with the preamplifier ON
If the ratio V2/V1 with preamplifirer ON is a little bit greater than the ratio with the preamplifier OFF than that preamplifier is usefull othervise if the ratio is unchanged it is not usefull because or the noise figure of the preamplifier is too high or your antenna temperature is too high because the antenna pick up too much thermal noise due to side lobes or pick up man made noise particularly in urban or suburban areas particularly if the frequency is 144 MHz or belove.
If you live in an area with high density of FM and TV transmitters located in top of a hill (my situation) you can get the phase noise of the above transmitters as a reference signal because the phase noise of their oscillators extends well in to the amateur band in form of a withe noise ( moving the S meter to me in 70 cm at 10 km distance from the top hill )
If you measure V2 with the antenna aimed toward the source of phase noise (the hill) and than V1 with the antenna aimed to the cold sky 90° elevation than you can better evaluate the ratio V2/V1 with preamplifier ON and preamplifier OFF
I don't mention the possibility to use the sun for the above evaluation because using small gain antennas for satellite communications in to 2 meters and 70 cm the sun noise is not well detectable over the noise of a receiving system.
Greatest is the ratio V2/V1 with preamplifier ON and lower is the overall noise figure of your receiving system or lower is your antenna temperature or both togheter.
For the evaluation of a receiver when is antenna connected is the ratio V2/V1 i.e. the swing between V2 and V1 that count.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
Thanks, Dom. This is excellent helpful advice for those of us with elevation rotors. The V2/V1 ratio with preamp on would provide a relative benchmark to turn to when something seems 'not quite right'. For instance, I know that ice buildup on my yagis due to freezing rain will degrade their performance. I could get some idea of how badly the performance degrades by comparing this ratio in icy conditions to the benchmark taken in ideal conditions. (This would assume that the S component of the S+N was constant over time. Assuming I'm using ground noise, does anyone know if this value changes significantly with ground temperature? Transmitter phase noise as discussed above would, of course, be beyond one's control.)
I'm wondering if anyone knows of a reliable piece of software that might do the voltage measurements through a computer and sound card. I've noticed recent projects in QST that appear to entail this sort of measurement, but I don't think any of them had software that performed this basic function.
73, Bruce VE9QRP
At 10:47 AM 12/15/2006 -0400, you wrote:
Thanks, Dom. This is excellent helpful advice for those of us with elevation rotors. The V2/V1 ratio with preamp on would provide a relative benchmark to turn to when something seems 'not quite right'. For instance, I know that ice buildup on my yagis due to freezing rain will degrade their performance. I could get some idea of how badly the performance degrades by comparing this ratio in icy conditions to the benchmark taken in ideal conditions. (This would assume that the S component of the S+N was constant over time. Assuming I'm using ground noise, does anyone know if this value changes significantly with ground temperature? Transmitter phase noise as discussed above would, of course, be beyond one's control.)
I'm wondering if anyone knows of a reliable piece of software that might do the voltage measurements through a computer and sound card. I've noticed recent projects in QST that appear to entail this sort of measurement, but I don't think any of them had software that performed this basic function.
73, Bruce VE9QRP
Bruce,
For antenna noise temperatures we use the kelvin scale 273K = 0C, so avg temps of 17C (290K) will not significantly change for a few degrees change (i.e. it is now -15C here = 5F, but this is 258K an change of 258/290).
If you want absolute accuracy then use your ambient temp in your calculations.
For sw that uses your soundcard, there are two I can recommend: JT65 that is used mainly for eme has a Moon Echo routine that one could use for measuring hot/cold sky noise. Free from: http://pulsar.princeton.edu/%7Ejoe/K1JT/
SkyPipe is a free radioastronomy program that will display and graph noise levels on a scale that would eliminate needing to use an audio meter. http://radiosky.com/
73's, Ed - KL7UW ========================================= BP40iq, Nikiski, AK http://www.qsl.net/al7eb Amsat #3212 Modes: V - U - L - S USA Rep. for Dubus Magazine: dubususa@hotmail.com =========================================
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Robertson" broberts@mta.ca To: "AMSAT-BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:47 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Pre amp question
Assuming I'm using ground noise, does anyone know if this value changes significantly with ground temperature?
73, Bruce VE9QRP
Hi Bruce, VE9QRP
About your specific question I suggest you to read the following page from OE5JFL
http://www.qsl.net/oe5jfl/noisefig.htm
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
participants (3)
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Bruce Robertson
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Edward R. Cole
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i8cvs