Bill Ress - N6GHz - Board Candidate - Operating Survey
Hello all,
On August 10-11, the AMSAT Senior leadership will be holding a critical "strategy" meeting with the theme of "Can We? Should We?" launch a HEO satellite.
As a board candidate, I feel it's essential that "strategic" decisions must consider the membership's opinions and desires.
The last membership survey taken was in 2004 by Gunther Meisse, W8GSM.
So, to get the current thinking of the membership, I invite you take the simple, anonymous, no cost (probably unscientific) survey that I have prepared to determine your operating preferences at . . . . .
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/55247/amsat-operating-preferences
I will be using this simple, easy e-survey format to get membership opinion on future topics. This is my first go at it, so I hope that I selected the right buttons to make it work. Let me know if you run into any issues at . . .
I'll let the survey run for about a week and then I'll share the results here on the -bb with a copy of the results to the senior leadership.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
Bill,
Everything seemed to work well, and the questions were relevant and clearly stated. I would suggest that you include a section at the end for free text comments, if possible. I know that opens a can of worms, but sometimes a comment may contain relevant information.
You might bring up this mode of communication to the BoD as an AMSAT-NA tool, rather than just that of an individual officer. We have more than one officer or VP, either due to work load or e-mail issues, who apparently doesn't have time to answer questions or discuss issues. This might be a help for better communications on both policy and operational issues.
73s,
Alan WA4SCA
At 01:15 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote:
I will be using this simple, easy e-survey format to get membership opinion on future topics. This is my first go at it, so I hope that I selected the right buttons to make it work. Let me know if you run into any issues at . . .
I took the survey, great idea, but I saw no mention of an option for a LEO similar to 07 ssb/cw??
The cost of a HEO appears to be prohibitive, but I certainly don't want another AO51!!! So I was forced to choose HEO...
73, Dave, WB6LLO [email protected]
Disagree: I learn....
Pulling for P3E...
Hi Dave,
This is my first shot at this e-survey thing, so it's a work in progress. I don't think Mr. Gallop will be threatened. I wanted to find a simple way to get membership views.
I've appreciated all the comments and suggestions I've received to date.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
Dave Guimont wrote:
At 01:15 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote:
I will be using this simple, easy e-survey format to get membership opinion on future topics. This is my first go at it, so I hope that I selected the right buttons to make it work. Let me know if you run into any issues at . . .
I took the survey, great idea, but I saw no mention of an option for a LEO similar to 07 ssb/cw??
The cost of a HEO appears to be prohibitive, but I certainly don't want another AO51!!! So I was forced to choose HEO...
73, Dave, WB6LLO [email protected] Disagree: I learn.... Pulling for P3E...
I agree that a comment section would be of great value. Yes or no and multiple choice leaves one with picking the best of the undesirable responses. Example I would prefer a HEO but if we are going to get a GEO ride for free then for me it is a moot point. Hard to express yourself in survey format but it is better than not expressing yourself at all.
I for one am very opposed to the 3 and 10 gig transponder. I have seen little or no interest in the 1.2 uplink. Folks are not willing to spend $500.00 to work a transponder that is mostly quite and could go away over night like 2.4 did with AO-40. Did anyone listen to the L/u AO-51 on Field Day. While V/u was jammed I worked the first station I heard on L/u and there were maybe 5 others on that pass. I don't maintain 1.2 gig equipment here. It is not worth the investment.
Now if I had a place to make those comments I would feel like I was contributing.
My 2 cent worth. 73's << John
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Bill Ress [email protected] wrote:
Hello all,
On August 10-11, the AMSAT Senior leadership will be holding a critical "strategy" meeting with the theme of "Can We? Should We?" launch a HEO satellite.
As a board candidate, I feel it's essential that "strategic" decisions must consider the membership's opinions and desires.
The last membership survey taken was in 2004 by Gunther Meisse, W8GSM.
So, to get the current thinking of the membership, I invite you take the simple, anonymous, no cost (probably unscientific) survey that I have prepared to determine your operating preferences at . . . . .
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/55247/amsat-operating-preferences
I will be using this simple, easy e-survey format to get membership opinion on future topics. This is my first go at it, so I hope that I selected the right buttons to make it work. Let me know if you run into any issues at . . .
I'll let the survey run for about a week and then I'll share the results here on the -bb with a copy of the results to the senior leadership.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 19:00 -0400, John Price wrote:
I for one am very opposed to the 3 and 10 gig transponder. I have seen little or no interest in the 1.2 uplink. Folks are not willing to spend $500.00 to work a transponder that is mostly quite and could go away over night like 2.4 did with AO-40. Did anyone listen to the L/u AO-51 on Field Day. While V/u was jammed I worked the first station I heard on L/u and there were maybe 5 others on that pass. I don't maintain 1.2 gig equipment here. It is not worth the investment.
And what would be the trigger for you to invest in the equipment? There is NO GAURUNTEES that any of these new birds will get to orbit in one peice. Look at AO-40. She was a GREAT birds at the beginning, then something happened and all we had were a couple of uplinks with one downlink.
Where is your sense of adventure with experimenting with something new and untested? How are you helping advance the Art of Amateur Radio and Satellites if we are STUCK back in the stone ages with 2m and 70cm and FM birds?
I for one would and have invested in the higher bands as I am also using that equipment for Rovering and some contesting which I have found that I really like. I also use this equipment to talk around my area/state. This equipment with a little modification is can also be used for when we have a HEO or GEO satellite in orbit.
I WANT more digital store-and-forward birds along with more Sideband voice birds on bands OTHER than 2mand 70cm. Right now there is no CHALLENGE in the current crop of satellites we have when all I can do MOST of the time is get on and have enough time to get a GRID SQUARE and a NAME/CALLSIGN of the person I am talking to. I want to be able to hold a net where I can talk to a NUMBER of people and find out more about everyone or ask for help and get it. I want to be able to send video via these new birds of my latest project or of the 'kids' as they operate. I want to be able to demonstrate what Amatuer radio is and can do that the internet can't. I want to be able to TINKER on these new birds with a new mode that I have either developed or have an interest in. I want to be able to use that new microwave transverter for things other than to talk to or see (video) locals.
Where is EVERYONES sense of experimentation or did we as amateur radio operators/licenses leave that at the door when we got licensed or are we just content with what has been done and happy to sit on our laurels and let the world leave us behind as a group that WILL die out in about twenty/thirty years as we don't have any NEW blood to carry on with the experimentation, thinking, and tinkering? Are we going to let the INTERNET be the thing to determine how and where we go as a group? Everyone on here gripes about how the internet is taking away everything what about how we are making things interesting to entice these people in the hobby and into Satellites? Where is the challenge anymore? I want to be able to EXPERIMENT on thse new crop of birds, not just sit around on 2m and 70cm and make a couple quick qso's to exchange grid squares!!!
Bill, I looked at your webpage and see that you MIGHT have a reason to have new birds up and running other than just as a member that wants to help out AMSAT through these trying times. I see no problem with that at all as AMSAT has had others like you on the BoD before and they have done a great job of not compromising their integrity as a Director. I just don't see anything saying if you are a owner or an employee of this company. Could you enlighten me and the others before I make a decision on which three candidates are the best?
James W8ISS - a voting member that has issues with the current crop of APPLIANCE OPERATORS on the amateur bands!!!
James, I wont be investing in 3 gig equipment. If I had plenty of money and lots of expertise all things would be possible. In the real world it just don't work that way. You are trying to sell Amateur Satellite service to the masses by offering them a chance to work something that they can't use or afford. The time and expense that is put into developing transponders that you can't buy a radio to work is not practical. Do you know that Yaesu has withdrawn from the satellite market? Kenwood offers the 1.2 gig module for there 2000 at a cost of an additional $500.00 making that radio over $2000.00. That is it as far as I know for off the shelf rigs for 1.2 gig. Downeast has a upconverter for about the same cost as the Kenwood module. Now in the real world that is a bunch to invest to add one band to your station.
Your comment concerning appliance operators sure wont endear many new hams to Amsat. I have no formal training in electronics. I spent 25 years as a Deputy Sheriff and knew nothing of ham radio or electronics when I got my ticket. Over the past 20 years I have learned a little thanks to a bunch of wonderful skilled hams. Together with one of my friends a RF engineer who retired from GE we built a 1.2 gig station for field day a year ago out of a old Master III and a signal generator. Got the contact and was mighty proud. I have listened on L/u a few times since and have worked three contacts. If the 3 gig flys I might decide to do the same thing. My point is how many of those "appliance operators" are going to be able to do the same. We are going to have another satellite with a bunch of electronics that might get used by 10 people.
My since of adventure is tempered by my practicallity I guess.
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 9:45 PM, James French [email protected] wrote:
On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 19:00 -0400, John Price wrote:
I for one am very opposed to the 3 and 10 gig transponder. I have seen little or no interest in the 1.2 uplink. Folks are not willing to spend $500.00 to work a transponder that is mostly quite and could go away over night like 2.4 did with AO-40. Did anyone listen to the L/u AO-51 on Field Day. While V/u was jammed I worked the first station I heard on L/u and there were maybe 5 others on that pass. I don't maintain 1.2 gig equipment here. It is not worth the investment.
And what would be the trigger for you to invest in the equipment? There is NO GAURUNTEES that any of these new birds will get to orbit in one peice. Look at AO-40. She was a GREAT birds at the beginning, then something happened and all we had were a couple of uplinks with one downlink.
Where is your sense of adventure with experimenting with something new and untested? How are you helping advance the Art of Amateur Radio and Satellites if we are STUCK back in the stone ages with 2m and 70cm and FM birds?
I for one would and have invested in the higher bands as I am also using that equipment for Rovering and some contesting which I have found that I really like. I also use this equipment to talk around my area/state. This equipment with a little modification is can also be used for when we have a HEO or GEO satellite in orbit.
I WANT more digital store-and-forward birds along with more Sideband voice birds on bands OTHER than 2mand 70cm. Right now there is no CHALLENGE in the current crop of satellites we have when all I can do MOST of the time is get on and have enough time to get a GRID SQUARE and a NAME/CALLSIGN of the person I am talking to. I want to be able to hold a net where I can talk to a NUMBER of people and find out more about everyone or ask for help and get it. I want to be able to send video via these new birds of my latest project or of the 'kids' as they operate. I want to be able to demonstrate what Amatuer radio is and can do that the internet can't. I want to be able to TINKER on these new birds with a new mode that I have either developed or have an interest in. I want to be able to use that new microwave transverter for things other than to talk to or see (video) locals.
Where is EVERYONES sense of experimentation or did we as amateur radio operators/licenses leave that at the door when we got licensed or are we just content with what has been done and happy to sit on our laurels and let the world leave us behind as a group that WILL die out in about twenty/thirty years as we don't have any NEW blood to carry on with the experimentation, thinking, and tinkering? Are we going to let the INTERNET be the thing to determine how and where we go as a group? Everyone on here gripes about how the internet is taking away everything what about how we are making things interesting to entice these people in the hobby and into Satellites? Where is the challenge anymore? I want to be able to EXPERIMENT on thse new crop of birds, not just sit around on 2m and 70cm and make a couple quick qso's to exchange grid squares!!!
Bill, I looked at your webpage and see that you MIGHT have a reason to have new birds up and running other than just as a member that wants to help out AMSAT through these trying times. I see no problem with that at all as AMSAT has had others like you on the BoD before and they have done a great job of not compromising their integrity as a Director. I just don't see anything saying if you are a owner or an employee of this company. Could you enlighten me and the others before I make a decision on which three candidates are the best?
James W8ISS - a voting member that has issues with the current crop of APPLIANCE OPERATORS on the amateur bands!!!
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hello John,
Thanks for taking the time to express your views.
Regarding your comments about my employment and as stated in the ballot statement, I run a RF.microwave components company. While some of the products can be used in satellite applications, I seriously doubt that could constitute any conflict of interest by my running for the board.
Quite the contrary, I think AMSAT could benefit from having more folks like me with technology industry experience helping guide AMSAT's future. After all, a satellite is one big hunk of state of the art technology.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz , John Price wrote:
James, I wont be investing in 3 gig equipment. If I had plenty of money and lots of expertise all things would be possible. In the real world it just don't work that way. You are trying to sell Amateur Satellite service to the masses by offering them a chance to work something that they can't use or afford. The time and expense that is put into developing transponders that you can't buy a radio to work is not practical. Do you know that Yaesu has withdrawn from the satellite market? Kenwood offers the 1.2 gig module for there 2000 at a cost of an additional $500.00 making that radio over $2000.00. That is it as far as I know for off the shelf rigs for 1.2 gig. Downeast has a upconverter for about the same cost as the Kenwood module. Now in the real world that is a bunch to invest to add one band to your station.
Your comment concerning appliance operators sure wont endear many new hams to Amsat. I have no formal training in electronics. I spent 25 years as a Deputy Sheriff and knew nothing of ham radio or electronics when I got my ticket. Over the past 20 years I have learned a little thanks to a bunch of wonderful skilled hams. Together with one of my friends a RF engineer who retired from GE we built a 1.2 gig station for field day a year ago out of a old Master III and a signal generator. Got the contact and was mighty proud. I have listened on L/u a few times since and have worked three contacts. If the 3 gig flys I might decide to do the same thing. My point is how many of those "appliance operators" are going to be able to do the same. We are going to have another satellite with a bunch of electronics that might get used by 10 people.
My since of adventure is tempered by my practicallity I guess.
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 9:45 PM, James French [email protected] wrote:
On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 19:00 -0400, John Price wrote:
I for one am very opposed to the 3 and 10 gig transponder. I have seen little or no interest in the 1.2 uplink. Folks are not willing to spend $500.00 to work a transponder that is mostly quite and could go away over night like 2.4 did with AO-40. Did anyone listen to the L/u AO-51 on Field Day. While V/u was jammed I worked the first station I heard on L/u and there were maybe 5 others on that pass. I don't maintain 1.2 gig equipment here. It is not worth the investment.
And what would be the trigger for you to invest in the equipment? There is NO GAURUNTEES that any of these new birds will get to orbit in one peice. Look at AO-40. She was a GREAT birds at the beginning, then something happened and all we had were a couple of uplinks with one downlink.
Where is your sense of adventure with experimenting with something new and untested? How are you helping advance the Art of Amateur Radio and Satellites if we are STUCK back in the stone ages with 2m and 70cm and FM birds?
I for one would and have invested in the higher bands as I am also using that equipment for Rovering and some contesting which I have found that I really like. I also use this equipment to talk around my area/state. This equipment with a little modification is can also be used for when we have a HEO or GEO satellite in orbit.
I WANT more digital store-and-forward birds along with more Sideband voice birds on bands OTHER than 2mand 70cm. Right now there is no CHALLENGE in the current crop of satellites we have when all I can do MOST of the time is get on and have enough time to get a GRID SQUARE and a NAME/CALLSIGN of the person I am talking to. I want to be able to hold a net where I can talk to a NUMBER of people and find out more about everyone or ask for help and get it. I want to be able to send video via these new birds of my latest project or of the 'kids' as they operate. I want to be able to demonstrate what Amatuer radio is and can do that the internet can't. I want to be able to TINKER on these new birds with a new mode that I have either developed or have an interest in. I want to be able to use that new microwave transverter for things other than to talk to or see (video) locals.
Where is EVERYONES sense of experimentation or did we as amateur radio operators/licenses leave that at the door when we got licensed or are we just content with what has been done and happy to sit on our laurels and let the world leave us behind as a group that WILL die out in about twenty/thirty years as we don't have any NEW blood to carry on with the experimentation, thinking, and tinkering? Are we going to let the INTERNET be the thing to determine how and where we go as a group? Everyone on here gripes about how the internet is taking away everything what about how we are making things interesting to entice these people in the hobby and into Satellites? Where is the challenge anymore? I want to be able to EXPERIMENT on thse new crop of birds, not just sit around on 2m and 70cm and make a couple quick qso's to exchange grid squares!!!
Bill, I looked at your webpage and see that you MIGHT have a reason to have new birds up and running other than just as a member that wants to help out AMSAT through these trying times. I see no problem with that at all as AMSAT has had others like you on the BoD before and they have done a great job of not compromising their integrity as a Director. I just don't see anything saying if you are a owner or an employee of this company. Could you enlighten me and the others before I make a decision on which three candidates are the best?
James W8ISS - a voting member that has issues with the current crop of APPLIANCE OPERATORS on the amateur bands!!!
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
At 08:52 AM 7/22/2008 -0700, Bill Ress [email protected] wrote:
Hello John,
Thanks for taking the time to express your views.
Regarding your comments about my employment and as stated in the ballot statement, I run a RF.microwave components company. While some of the products can be used in satellite applications, I seriously doubt that could constitute any conflict of interest by my running for the board.
Quite the contrary, I think AMSAT could benefit from having more folks like me with technology industry experience helping guide AMSAT's future. After all, a satellite is one big hunk of state of the art technology.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
I voted for you.
KB7ADL
Quite the contrary, I think AMSAT could benefit from having more folks like me with technology industry experience helping guide AMSAT's future. After all, a satellite is one big hunk of state of the art technology.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
I voted for you. KB7ADL
I'm sure a lot of us voted for him, or will..
Finally, we get some positive statements of what will be done, instead of trying to justify what has been done...
Shades of Robin, I guess 10 years ago!!
73, Dave, WB6LLO [email protected]
Disagree: I learn....
Pulling for P3E...
Bill, I looked at your webpage and see that you MIGHT have a reason to have new birds up and running other than just as a member that wants to help out AMSAT through these trying times.
By the way folks, Bill Ress, N6GHZ sure gets a kudo from here.
Back when we were building RAFT and the MARScom satellites here at the Academy, I was in a panic and needed help. I put out a request on AMSAT-BB for a UHF to VHF linear downconverter for AM! It needed to be flea powered and fit in a cubic inch or so... Bill came out-of-the blue... Volunteered, and send us a prototype, then a flight unit..
THen when we smoked it, he built another one! All at his own expense!
And because MARScom had an antenna deployment anomoly (see video on web page below) we never got to activate that UHF AM receiver. I felt terrible for all the effort that Bill had put forward and then not being able to see the experiment work... But sometimes, I guess that is what space experimentation is all about.
Even though we did not get to thank Bill in the light of a successful experiment, I am remiss for not having publically thanked him for his coming through for us way back then (2005)... It is nice to know we have good microwave RF engineers available to AMSAT...
Bob, WB4APR RAFT Web Page: http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/ande-raft-ops.html
On Jul 21, 2008, at 7:45 PM, James French wrote:
James W8ISS - a voting member that has issues with the current crop of APPLIANCE OPERATORS on the amateur bands!!!
I reply locally to this sentiment the same way I'll reply here James.
"When and where is your next class, and is it suited to people with zero technical knowledge? I'll send the announcement to the 400 members of my repeater club, you'll probably have a big crowd and even bigger for the second session, if you have any idea what you're doing as an instructor."
Better yet... "Why should anyone with technical knowledge feel or act superior to someone who doesn't have it? Shouldn't you be helping them learn? Didn't you have an Elmer or some other way to learn this knowledge?"
Or perhaps the meanest one used to plonk someone whining about this locally this week, "Did you pop out of your momma knowing CW and how to read a Smith Chart?"
This "I hate non-techies" attitude many older "technical" hams seem to have, gets old. Do you think it's helping the hobby any? Think about it.
Do something about it if it distresses you so much. Teach. Now. Not "someday" when you have time. Make videos. Whatever... just do it and quit complaining.
As someone else pointed out, much of the current growth in ham radio is in 50-something males who now have time and money and can buy rigs and get on the air. Your job, if you want the hobby to be "more technical" than them just buying rigs and using them... is to a) give them a reason why they should learn something they don't need -- which they'll also figure out on their own, given time... and b) a forum in which to learn... that's as convenient and fun for them as turning on that $1000 rig and talking to people.
Neither one is easy. Whining about it is easy, though.
Got a good reason a guy with $2000 burning a hole in his pocket needs to learn about superheterodyne receivers, James? I don't. He can buy one with all the fancy features and use it today without needing to know anything about how it works.
Just because you like to learn (as do I -- there's a reason I took months to read the ARRL Antenna Manual from cover to cover), doesn't mean the new folks do. What motivated you? Would it work on them?
Guilt trips and bad attitudes from old-timers will certainly be ignored... get used to it. Find another (more positive) way.
-- Nate Duehr, WY0X [email protected]
So, to get the current thinking of the membership, I invite you take the simple, anonymous, no cost (probably unscientific) survey that I have prepared to determine your operating preferences at . . . . .
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/55247/amsat-operating-preferences
Although I applaud the effort an initiative to prepare such a survey, I'm not comfortable with the questions and answers, because I don't think they will do much to help the membership or officers make an informed decision, because the questions are not phrased to extracting a cost-benefit response.
We would all like the best possible satellite providing 24/7 worldwide communications to a small 18" antenna that provides both voice, data, video, and internet. The problem is, -at-what-cost-and-what-tradeoffs???
Unless each question that offers a benefit, also weighs that benefit against the cost and risk, and loss of other efforts, the data is of little meaningfull value.
I will be using this simple, easy e-survey format to get membership opinion on future topics.
Problem is, everyone has an opinion. It is not until you force the opinionated to select their favorite opinon at the expense of what they have to lose or give up, that such a survey has value...
Let me know if you run into any issues...
Again, I appreciate your approach and incentive, but to be meaningful, I think the questions and selected answers have to be better designed to give tradeoffs, not just opinions.
Good luck. Thanks Bob, WB4APR
AMSAT sent out a survey many years ago andthat is where our current path has lead. personally I don't think surveys can substitute for the lack of money, volunteers and elbow grease.
after all, I bet you could put a question out there... if a satellite were launched, would you use it? after receiving 100% reply in favor, you are still in the same boat.
subjective questions can lead the response in the direction you would prefer by giving less desirable possibilities for the other answers.
it is no longer a matter of build it and it will get launched. i think our efforts of going geostationary on a commercial satellite is going to be the best we can do right now.
73...bruce
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 21, 2008, at 6:01 PM, "Robert Bruninga" [email protected] wrote:
So, to get the current thinking of the membership, I invite you take the simple, anonymous, no cost (probably unscientific) survey that I have prepared to determine your operating preferences at . . . . .
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/55247/amsat-operating-preferences
Although I applaud the effort an initiative to prepare such a survey, I'm not comfortable with the questions and answers, because I don't think they will do much to help the membership or officers make an informed decision, because the questions are not phrased to extracting a cost-benefit response.
We would all like the best possible satellite providing 24/7 worldwide communications to a small 18" antenna that provides both voice, data, video, and internet. The problem is, -at-what-cost-and-what-tradeoffs???
Unless each question that offers a benefit, also weighs that benefit against the cost and risk, and loss of other efforts, the data is of little meaningfull value.
I will be using this simple, easy e-survey format to get membership opinion on future topics.
Problem is, everyone has an opinion. It is not until you force the opinionated to select their favorite opinon at the expense of what they have to lose or give up, that such a survey has value...
Let me know if you run into any issues...
Again, I appreciate your approach and incentive, but to be meaningful, I think the questions and selected answers have to be better designed to give tradeoffs, not just opinions.
Good luck. Thanks Bob, WB4APR
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bob,
I guess when I took the survey, there were some obvious "cost-benefit" options that I gleaned out of the questions...
Obviously, the GEO is probably the most expensive, with HEO being close to it, and the LEO being the least expensive.
It should be up to the membership to help influence our future, and up to the management to work out the finance details, or provide us with the feasible options...
Dave AF6KD
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Robert Bruninga [email protected] wrote:
We would all like the best possible satellite providing 24/7 worldwide communications to a small 18" antenna that provides both voice, data, video, and internet. The problem is, -at-what-cost-and-what-tradeoffs???
Unless each question that offers a benefit, also weighs that benefit against the cost and risk, and loss of other efforts, the data is of little meaningfull value.
Obviously, the GEO is probably the most expensive, with HEO being close to it,
Not necessarily. A small package on Intelsat may be significantly more affordable than Eagle. On the other hand, putting everything from Eagle on Intelsat would likely be more expensive. There are also considerably different risks. Eagle has all the things we've been good about messing up previously, and a Intelsat rideshare has almost none. As Bob B said earlier...there are several tradeoffs to consider, and let me say even the BOD doesn't have the full details to consider yet.
Personally, I'm in favor of doing whatever project gets us on station with long distance comms first, without breaking the piggybank, or too much risk. It is, without a doubt, a very difficult and complicated decision.
73, Drew KO4MA
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner [email protected] wrote:
Obviously, the GEO is probably the most expensive, with HEO being close to it,
Not necessarily. A small package on Intelsat may be significantly more affordable than Eagle. On the other hand, putting everything from Eagle on Intelsat would likely be more expensive. There are also considerably different risks. Eagle has all the things we've been good about messing up previously, and a Intelsat rideshare has almost none.
As much as I like the idea of an Intelsat ride share, I think there will be too much non-satellite, non-ham stuff involved, e.g. legal things and contracts. What kind of MOUs, memorandums, contracts, etc. are going to be involved? Will hands be tied, due to some kind of required assurance, from either Intelsat or its manufacturer? Will we have to buy expensive insurance, so that if the payload malfunctions and disruptions Intelsat operations, things are covered? What commitments and assurances need to be put into place?
No one knows at this point. Intelsat isn't going to be thrilled with a low-quality product from us, so therefore AMSAT's costs go up, to help minimize their risks.
As Bob B said earlier...there are several tradeoffs to consider, and let me say even the BOD doesn't have the full details to consider yet.
So this is why attaching a "costs vs. benefits" analysis to a simple survey is so difficult!
Personally, I'm in favor of doing whatever project gets us on station with long distance comms first, without breaking the piggybank, or too much risk. It is, without a doubt, a very difficult and complicated decision.
I'm glad we can agree on this!
Honestly, thanks for chiming into the BB, Drew. It is my hope that all the other directors are reading.
73,
Dave AF6KD (ex n0tgd)
Honestly, thanks for chiming into the BB, Drew. It is my hope that all the other directors are reading.
73,
Dave AF6KD (ex n0tgd)
I think most do, even if they don't admit it. It can be difficult though when people sling accusations that border on libel. I know I read every message, but usually only chime in when it will serve a purpose, is in a civil discourse, and isn't the same set of circular rants we have all heard before from the usual suspects.
73, Drew KO4MA
Drew,
only chime in when it will serve a purpose, is in a civil discourse, and
isn't the same set of circular rants we have all heard before from the usual suspects.
While the ideal is laudable, you will seldom if ever find a discussion which meets all of the above criteria. Not referring to any individual here, but there have been times when the core issue of the discussion/arguement/flamewar was a valid one which should have been addressed by the appropriate leaders and was studiously ignored. In one case I asked an AMSAT officer about a particular matter which came up about 2 years ago, and was told with considerable condescension that he had not replied because he did not think the tone of the argument was worth his time. When pushed about the _topic_ in a polite manner, he became defensive, and still refused to discuss it. Even a couple of beers did not open him up. ;)
There is always a faction in any organization, whether it be political, religious, labor union, or hobby, that assumes that if the leaders just did their job correctly, all of that organization's goals would be achieved already. Since they are not, it is taken as proof that the leadership is lacking, or worse. It takes a moderately thick skin to work past this, but it must be done for communication to work. When it doesn't work, or is perceived as not working, people reach out and try new channels.
Enjoy your trip to KL7-land!
Alan WA4SCA
On Jul 22, 2008, at 7:27 AM, Alan P. Biddle wrote:
There is always a faction in any organization, whether it be political, religious, labor union, or hobby, that assumes that if the leaders just did their job correctly, all of that organization's goals would be achieved already. Since they are not, it is taken as proof that the leadership is lacking, or worse.
Hell, that's the driving theme of every U.S. Presidential candidate for my entire adult life so far. "The other group has a guy that's a poor leader. I'll be a better one."
You'd think ONE of them would realize how boring that gong is and voice some real goals!
(Sorry, off-topic... I know.)
It's not a faction -- it's human nature. People think the grass is always greener on the other side.
Rising above that broken thought process is something few even attempt, this list having NUMEROUS examples of how unnatural it is, to do so.
The reality is that the grass only gets greener if you care enough to work on it. The guys with the green grass did and didn't ask for "leadership" to approve or fund it. They find their own ways.
Taking control of one's own actions and outcomes is somehow very difficult for a lot of people. Whining is usually the end-result of them not being able to do it.
-- Nate Duehr, WY0X [email protected]
I've always thought that a leader is one who sees the road to take and sets out on it. Sometimes he asks others to follow him. Other times he just ventures forth and finds others willing to go with him to see where they end up.
So in the begining there is a vision. The leader expresses that vision and puts forth a sequence of action to achieve the goal.
Of course maybe that goal is to move someone in the road out of the way so he can get on down the way! Certainly, negative goals are less appealing then positive ones.
Anyone want to expand this?
***************************************************** 73, Ed - KL7UW BP40iq, 6m - 3cm 144-EME: FT-847, mgf-1801, 4x-xp20, 185w http://www.kl7uw.com AK VHF-Up Group NA Rep. for DUBUS: [email protected] *****************************************************
The survey states:
- The use of the ACP mode will permit operation with antennas similar to the 18" dish used in direct broadcast television which would get around having antennas in CCR or antenna restricted communities.
That is incorrect, or at least misleading. The federal preemption of CC&R's for small satellite dishes only applies to dishes that are designed to receive television broadcast or transceive fixed wireless. The FCC has made it very clear that it does not apply to amateur radio antennas, no matter how much they may resemble TV antennas.
Reference: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
The best we can hope for by designing for small dish antennas that resemble DBS antennas is to slip under the radar and be mistaken for TV receivers. If it comes down to any controversy over the placement of the antenna, we would have no protection from the FCC.
73 -Paul [email protected]
participants (13)
-
Alan P. Biddle -
Andrew Glasbrenner -
Bill Ress -
Bruce -
Dave Guimont -
Dave hartzell -
Edward Cole -
James French -
John Price -
Nate Duehr -
Paul Williamson -
Robert Bruninga -
Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL